Re: [LPGa Executive Committee] Official Statement on Donald Trump's Divisive Rhetoric
Nay. Wherein condemning stupidity is pointless in and of itself, condeming a sentiment that is widley popular will not grow the party. As Sam Clement said, "*Never argue* with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” On Jul 19, 2019 3:31 PM, "christine00austin--- via Lpgaexcomm" < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote: I agree with Ryan that some people do this, but I think the logic that it helps us move on is flawed. Some people certainly think this, but it actually forces us to discuss and debate and then vote on an issue that should have died for lack of a second. Letting a motion die for lack of a second actually helps on to more on much more effectively. You can always reach out to the originator of the motion and make suggestions for changes that could be made in order to secure your support. *From:* Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm-bounces@lists.lpgeorgia.com> *On Behalf Of *Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm *Sent:* Friday, July 19, 2019 2:27 PM *To:* lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com *Cc:* Ryan Graham <ryan.graham@lpgeorgia.com> *Subject:* Re: [LPGa Executive Committee] Official Statement on Donald Trump's Divisive Rhetoric It just depends on you. Some people second everything so we can move on to discussion or voting, even if they plan on voting nay. Some people won't second things unless they support it. Purely personal. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia On 2019-07-19 14:22, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm wrote: I am seconding the motion that we vote on it/discuss it. Is seconding equivalent to endorsing? I'm not well-grounded in parliamentary procedure. On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 1:17 PM Nathan Wilson via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote: I like the generalize statement. It's good to be able to use this regardless of what the tweet is. With that being said, when I was acting executive director I would just use responses from national if they chose to respond to tweet or reshare. Saves us the effort oh coming up with something, and is usually very well worded. I vote yes. On Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 1:09 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote: We don't have to respond to all of his tweets because we respond to one. Regardless, if libertarians wanted to suggest that we do so by writing such responses for us to consider, I'd say we should probably consider them. My take is that this particular tweet from the President, and the subsequent rally in NC, is a step further than we've typically seen in the past, and a step over a line I'm not comfortable with the POTUS stepping over. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia On 2019-07-19 12:59, Christine Austin via Lpgaexcomm wrote: But since the motion has been seconded, I will open the discussion. I am concerned about responding to any particular tweets from the president. Because if we respond to one then we have to respond to all and that would just be ridiculous. Besides Trump is certainly not the only politician who is spewing hate in the public discourse. I would be more in favor of a more generally worded statement that does not address a specific behavior by a specific politician. What about replacing "In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States" With..... "In light of the current state of politically charged bigotry and hatred in our country" Sent from my iPhone On Jul 19, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote: I will second the motion and add that I'm feeling torn. On the one hand I agree with what is said here. On the other hand, I feel that the drama that is involved with Trump and his tweets is in itself divisive propaganda that serves to pull attention toward his rhetoric and away from his actual policy. I would rather not participate in that. That said, to not speak out when we are being asked to does seem to imply support. If we do make this official statement, I would change "bigoted statements" to simply "statements". "Bigoted statements" although we may agree that it is correct, seems subjective rather than factual. On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 12:18 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote: Hey Team, We had a concerned libertarian reach out and ask why we haven't made a statement about Donald Trump's recent tweets and statements. He went so far as to send a statement he'd like to see. Laurie took a look and edited it up and I think we're ready for a motion. I move to make an official statement of the Libertarian Party of Georgia regarding the Trump rhetoric as follows: In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States and the silence of many who fail to condemn these statements (and whose inaction is sometimes interpreted as support), we the members and supporters of the Libertarian Party restate our condemnation of any and all acts of bigotry, racism, and hatred by any person against any other. To view individuals primarily as members of a group or bound by immutable characteristics is a violation of our values celebrating rights of the individual. Politicians fostering divisiveness, bigotry, and collectivism among individuals are a threat to America's identity as a melting pot of cultural influence and a steward of equality before the law. We the Libertarian Party embrace America's diversity and affirm our pursuit of the principles of liberty and justice for all individuals. We need a second before voting can begin. -- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm
Bumping this thread for more votes. Please effort a vote today if you haven't. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia On 2019-07-19 16:30, Ted Metz via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
Nay.
Wherein condemning stupidity is pointless in and of itself, condeming a sentiment that is widley popular will not grow the party.
As Sam Clement said, "NEVER ARGUE with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
On Jul 19, 2019 3:31 PM, "christine00austin--- via Lpgaexcomm" <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I agree with Ryan that some people do this, but I think the logic that it helps us move on is flawed. Some people certainly think this, but it actually forces us to discuss and debate and then vote on an issue that should have died for lack of a second. Letting a motion die for lack of a second actually helps on to more on much more effectively.
You can always reach out to the originator of the motion and make suggestions for changes that could be made in order to secure your support.
FROM: Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm-bounces@lists.lpgeorgia.com> ON BEHALF OF Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm SENT: Friday, July 19, 2019 2:27 PM TO: lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com CC: Ryan Graham <ryan.graham@lpgeorgia.com> SUBJECT: Re: [LPGa Executive Committee] Official Statement on Donald Trump's Divisive Rhetoric
It just depends on you. Some people second everything so we can move on to discussion or voting, even if they plan on voting nay. Some people won't second things unless they support it. Purely personal.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 14:22, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
I am seconding the motion that we vote on it/discuss it. Is seconding equivalent to endorsing? I'm not well-grounded in parliamentary procedure.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 1:17 PM Nathan Wilson via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I like the generalize statement. It's good to be able to use this regardless of what the tweet is. With that being said, when I was acting executive director I would just use responses from national if they chose to respond to tweet or reshare. Saves us the effort oh coming up with something, and is usually very well worded.
I vote yes.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 1:09 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
We don't have to respond to all of his tweets because we respond to one. Regardless, if libertarians wanted to suggest that we do so by writing such responses for us to consider, I'd say we should probably consider them.
My take is that this particular tweet from the President, and the subsequent rally in NC, is a step further than we've typically seen in the past, and a step over a line I'm not comfortable with the POTUS stepping over.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 12:59, Christine Austin via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
But since the motion has been seconded, I will open the discussion.
I am concerned about responding to any particular tweets from the president. Because if we respond to one then we have to respond to all and that would just be ridiculous. Besides Trump is certainly not the only politician who is spewing hate in the public discourse. I would be more in favor of a more generally worded statement that does not address a specific behavior by a specific politician.
What about replacing
"In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States"
With.....
"In light of the current state of politically charged bigotry and hatred in our country"
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 19, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I will second the motion and add that I'm feeling torn. On the one hand I agree with what is said here. On the other hand, I feel that the drama that is involved with Trump and his tweets is in itself divisive propaganda that serves to pull attention toward his rhetoric and away from his actual policy. I would rather not participate in that. That said, to not speak out when we are being asked to does seem to imply support. If we do make this official statement, I would change "bigoted statements" to simply "statements". "Bigoted statements" although we may agree that it is correct, seems subjective rather than factual.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 12:18 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Hey Team,
We had a concerned libertarian reach out and ask why we haven't made a statement about Donald Trump's recent tweets and statements. He went so far as to send a statement he'd like to see. Laurie took a look and edited it up and I think we're ready for a motion.
I move to make an official statement of the Libertarian Party of Georgia regarding the Trump rhetoric as follows:
In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States and the silence of many who fail to condemn these statements (and whose inaction is sometimes interpreted as support), we the members and supporters of the Libertarian Party restate our condemnation of any and all acts of bigotry, racism, and hatred by any person against any other. To view individuals primarily as members of a group or bound by immutable characteristics is a violation of our values celebrating rights of the individual.
Politicians fostering divisiveness, bigotry, and collectivism among individuals are a threat to America's identity as a melting pot of cultural influence and a steward of equality before the law. We the Libertarian Party embrace America's diversity and affirm our pursuit of the principles of liberty and justice for all individuals.
We need a second before voting can begin.
--
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
_______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm
_______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm
_______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm
Can’t remmwber if I voted but nay if I didn’t On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 9:12 AM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Bumping this thread for more votes. Please effort a vote today if you haven't. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 16:30, Ted Metz via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
Nay.
Wherein condemning stupidity is pointless in and of itself, condeming a sentiment that is widley popular will not grow the party.
As Sam Clement said, "*Never argue* with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
On Jul 19, 2019 3:31 PM, "christine00austin--- via Lpgaexcomm" < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I agree with Ryan that some people do this, but I think the logic that it helps us move on is flawed. Some people certainly think this, but it actually forces us to discuss and debate and then vote on an issue that should have died for lack of a second. Letting a motion die for lack of a second actually helps on to more on much more effectively.
You can always reach out to the originator of the motion and make suggestions for changes that could be made in order to secure your support.
*From:* Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm-bounces@lists.lpgeorgia.com> *On Behalf Of *Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm *Sent:* Friday, July 19, 2019 2:27 PM *To:* lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com *Cc:* Ryan Graham <ryan.graham@lpgeorgia.com> *Subject:* Re: [LPGa Executive Committee] Official Statement on Donald Trump's Divisive Rhetoric
It just depends on you. Some people second everything so we can move on to discussion or voting, even if they plan on voting nay. Some people won't second things unless they support it. Purely personal.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 14:22, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
I am seconding the motion that we vote on it/discuss it. Is seconding equivalent to endorsing? I'm not well-grounded in parliamentary procedure.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 1:17 PM Nathan Wilson via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I like the generalize statement. It's good to be able to use this regardless of what the tweet is. With that being said, when I was acting executive director I would just use responses from national if they chose to respond to tweet or reshare. Saves us the effort oh coming up with something, and is usually very well worded.
I vote yes.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 1:09 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
We don't have to respond to all of his tweets because we respond to one. Regardless, if libertarians wanted to suggest that we do so by writing such responses for us to consider, I'd say we should probably consider them.
My take is that this particular tweet from the President, and the subsequent rally in NC, is a step further than we've typically seen in the past, and a step over a line I'm not comfortable with the POTUS stepping over.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 12:59, Christine Austin via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
But since the motion has been seconded, I will open the discussion.
I am concerned about responding to any particular tweets from the president. Because if we respond to one then we have to respond to all and that would just be ridiculous. Besides Trump is certainly not the only politician who is spewing hate in the public discourse. I would be more in favor of a more generally worded statement that does not address a specific behavior by a specific politician.
What about replacing
"In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States"
With.....
"In light of the current state of politically charged bigotry and hatred in our country"
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 19, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I will second the motion and add that I'm feeling torn. On the one hand I agree with what is said here. On the other hand, I feel that the drama that is involved with Trump and his tweets is in itself divisive propaganda that serves to pull attention toward his rhetoric and away from his actual policy. I would rather not participate in that. That said, to not speak out when we are being asked to does seem to imply support. If we do make this official statement, I would change "bigoted statements" to simply "statements". "Bigoted statements" although we may agree that it is correct, seems subjective rather than factual.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 12:18 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Hey Team,
We had a concerned libertarian reach out and ask why we haven't made a statement about Donald Trump's recent tweets and statements. He went so far as to send a statement he'd like to see. Laurie took a look and edited it up and I think we're ready for a motion.
I move to make an official statement of the Libertarian Party of Georgia regarding the Trump rhetoric as follows:
In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States and the silence of many who fail to condemn these statements (and whose inaction is sometimes interpreted as support), we the members and supporters of the Libertarian Party restate our condemnation of any and all acts of bigotry, racism, and hatred by any person against any other. To view individuals primarily as members of a group or bound by immutable characteristics is a violation of our values celebrating rights of the individual.
Politicians fostering divisiveness, bigotry, and collectivism among individuals are a threat to America's identity as a melting pot of cultural influence and a steward of equality before the law. We the Libertarian Party embrace America's diversity and affirm our pursuit of the principles of liberty and justice for all individuals.
We need a second before voting can begin.
--
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
_______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm
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Nay. On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 9:15 AM Jay Guidry via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Can’t remmwber if I voted but nay if I didn’t
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 9:12 AM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Bumping this thread for more votes. Please effort a vote today if you haven't. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 16:30, Ted Metz via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
Nay.
Wherein condemning stupidity is pointless in and of itself, condeming a sentiment that is widley popular will not grow the party.
As Sam Clement said, "*Never argue* with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
On Jul 19, 2019 3:31 PM, "christine00austin--- via Lpgaexcomm" < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I agree with Ryan that some people do this, but I think the logic that it helps us move on is flawed. Some people certainly think this, but it actually forces us to discuss and debate and then vote on an issue that should have died for lack of a second. Letting a motion die for lack of a second actually helps on to more on much more effectively.
You can always reach out to the originator of the motion and make suggestions for changes that could be made in order to secure your support.
*From:* Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm-bounces@lists.lpgeorgia.com> *On Behalf Of *Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm *Sent:* Friday, July 19, 2019 2:27 PM *To:* lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com *Cc:* Ryan Graham <ryan.graham@lpgeorgia.com> *Subject:* Re: [LPGa Executive Committee] Official Statement on Donald Trump's Divisive Rhetoric
It just depends on you. Some people second everything so we can move on to discussion or voting, even if they plan on voting nay. Some people won't second things unless they support it. Purely personal.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 14:22, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
I am seconding the motion that we vote on it/discuss it. Is seconding equivalent to endorsing? I'm not well-grounded in parliamentary procedure.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 1:17 PM Nathan Wilson via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I like the generalize statement. It's good to be able to use this regardless of what the tweet is. With that being said, when I was acting executive director I would just use responses from national if they chose to respond to tweet or reshare. Saves us the effort oh coming up with something, and is usually very well worded.
I vote yes.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 1:09 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
We don't have to respond to all of his tweets because we respond to one. Regardless, if libertarians wanted to suggest that we do so by writing such responses for us to consider, I'd say we should probably consider them.
My take is that this particular tweet from the President, and the subsequent rally in NC, is a step further than we've typically seen in the past, and a step over a line I'm not comfortable with the POTUS stepping over.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 12:59, Christine Austin via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
But since the motion has been seconded, I will open the discussion.
I am concerned about responding to any particular tweets from the president. Because if we respond to one then we have to respond to all and that would just be ridiculous. Besides Trump is certainly not the only politician who is spewing hate in the public discourse. I would be more in favor of a more generally worded statement that does not address a specific behavior by a specific politician.
What about replacing
"In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States"
With.....
"In light of the current state of politically charged bigotry and hatred in our country"
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 19, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I will second the motion and add that I'm feeling torn. On the one hand I agree with what is said here. On the other hand, I feel that the drama that is involved with Trump and his tweets is in itself divisive propaganda that serves to pull attention toward his rhetoric and away from his actual policy. I would rather not participate in that. That said, to not speak out when we are being asked to does seem to imply support. If we do make this official statement, I would change "bigoted statements" to simply "statements". "Bigoted statements" although we may agree that it is correct, seems subjective rather than factual.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 12:18 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Hey Team,
We had a concerned libertarian reach out and ask why we haven't made a statement about Donald Trump's recent tweets and statements. He went so far as to send a statement he'd like to see. Laurie took a look and edited it up and I think we're ready for a motion.
I move to make an official statement of the Libertarian Party of Georgia regarding the Trump rhetoric as follows:
In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States and the silence of many who fail to condemn these statements (and whose inaction is sometimes interpreted as support), we the members and supporters of the Libertarian Party restate our condemnation of any and all acts of bigotry, racism, and hatred by any person against any other. To view individuals primarily as members of a group or bound by immutable characteristics is a violation of our values celebrating rights of the individual.
Politicians fostering divisiveness, bigotry, and collectivism among individuals are a threat to America's identity as a melting pot of cultural influence and a steward of equality before the law. We the Libertarian Party embrace America's diversity and affirm our pursuit of the principles of liberty and justice for all individuals.
We need a second before voting can begin.
--
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
_______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm
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Nay. Evan Durkovic On Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 9:49 AM Stephanie Aylworth via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Nay.
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 9:15 AM Jay Guidry via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Can’t remmwber if I voted but nay if I didn’t
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 9:12 AM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Bumping this thread for more votes. Please effort a vote today if you haven't. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 16:30, Ted Metz via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
Nay.
Wherein condemning stupidity is pointless in and of itself, condeming a sentiment that is widley popular will not grow the party.
As Sam Clement said, "*Never argue* with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
On Jul 19, 2019 3:31 PM, "christine00austin--- via Lpgaexcomm" < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I agree with Ryan that some people do this, but I think the logic that it helps us move on is flawed. Some people certainly think this, but it actually forces us to discuss and debate and then vote on an issue that should have died for lack of a second. Letting a motion die for lack of a second actually helps on to more on much more effectively.
You can always reach out to the originator of the motion and make suggestions for changes that could be made in order to secure your support.
*From:* Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm-bounces@lists.lpgeorgia.com> *On Behalf Of *Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm *Sent:* Friday, July 19, 2019 2:27 PM *To:* lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com *Cc:* Ryan Graham <ryan.graham@lpgeorgia.com> *Subject:* Re: [LPGa Executive Committee] Official Statement on Donald Trump's Divisive Rhetoric
It just depends on you. Some people second everything so we can move on to discussion or voting, even if they plan on voting nay. Some people won't second things unless they support it. Purely personal.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 14:22, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
I am seconding the motion that we vote on it/discuss it. Is seconding equivalent to endorsing? I'm not well-grounded in parliamentary procedure.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 1:17 PM Nathan Wilson via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I like the generalize statement. It's good to be able to use this regardless of what the tweet is. With that being said, when I was acting executive director I would just use responses from national if they chose to respond to tweet or reshare. Saves us the effort oh coming up with something, and is usually very well worded.
I vote yes.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 1:09 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
We don't have to respond to all of his tweets because we respond to one. Regardless, if libertarians wanted to suggest that we do so by writing such responses for us to consider, I'd say we should probably consider them.
My take is that this particular tweet from the President, and the subsequent rally in NC, is a step further than we've typically seen in the past, and a step over a line I'm not comfortable with the POTUS stepping over.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 12:59, Christine Austin via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
But since the motion has been seconded, I will open the discussion.
I am concerned about responding to any particular tweets from the president. Because if we respond to one then we have to respond to all and that would just be ridiculous. Besides Trump is certainly not the only politician who is spewing hate in the public discourse. I would be more in favor of a more generally worded statement that does not address a specific behavior by a specific politician.
What about replacing
"In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States"
With.....
"In light of the current state of politically charged bigotry and hatred in our country"
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 19, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I will second the motion and add that I'm feeling torn. On the one hand I agree with what is said here. On the other hand, I feel that the drama that is involved with Trump and his tweets is in itself divisive propaganda that serves to pull attention toward his rhetoric and away from his actual policy. I would rather not participate in that. That said, to not speak out when we are being asked to does seem to imply support. If we do make this official statement, I would change "bigoted statements" to simply "statements". "Bigoted statements" although we may agree that it is correct, seems subjective rather than factual.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 12:18 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Hey Team,
We had a concerned libertarian reach out and ask why we haven't made a statement about Donald Trump's recent tweets and statements. He went so far as to send a statement he'd like to see. Laurie took a look and edited it up and I think we're ready for a motion.
I move to make an official statement of the Libertarian Party of Georgia regarding the Trump rhetoric as follows:
In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States and the silence of many who fail to condemn these statements (and whose inaction is sometimes interpreted as support), we the members and supporters of the Libertarian Party restate our condemnation of any and all acts of bigotry, racism, and hatred by any person against any other. To view individuals primarily as members of a group or bound by immutable characteristics is a violation of our values celebrating rights of the individual.
Politicians fostering divisiveness, bigotry, and collectivism among individuals are a threat to America's identity as a melting pot of cultural influence and a steward of equality before the law. We the Libertarian Party embrace America's diversity and affirm our pursuit of the principles of liberty and justice for all individuals.
We need a second before voting can begin.
--
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
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Nay On Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 3:37 PM Evan Durkovic via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Nay.
Evan Durkovic
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 9:49 AM Stephanie Aylworth via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Nay.
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 9:15 AM Jay Guidry via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Can’t remmwber if I voted but nay if I didn’t
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 9:12 AM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Bumping this thread for more votes. Please effort a vote today if you haven't. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 16:30, Ted Metz via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
Nay.
Wherein condemning stupidity is pointless in and of itself, condeming a sentiment that is widley popular will not grow the party.
As Sam Clement said, "*Never argue* with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
On Jul 19, 2019 3:31 PM, "christine00austin--- via Lpgaexcomm" < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I agree with Ryan that some people do this, but I think the logic that it helps us move on is flawed. Some people certainly think this, but it actually forces us to discuss and debate and then vote on an issue that should have died for lack of a second. Letting a motion die for lack of a second actually helps on to more on much more effectively.
You can always reach out to the originator of the motion and make suggestions for changes that could be made in order to secure your support.
*From:* Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm-bounces@lists.lpgeorgia.com> *On Behalf Of *Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm *Sent:* Friday, July 19, 2019 2:27 PM *To:* lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com *Cc:* Ryan Graham <ryan.graham@lpgeorgia.com> *Subject:* Re: [LPGa Executive Committee] Official Statement on Donald Trump's Divisive Rhetoric
It just depends on you. Some people second everything so we can move on to discussion or voting, even if they plan on voting nay. Some people won't second things unless they support it. Purely personal.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 14:22, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
I am seconding the motion that we vote on it/discuss it. Is seconding equivalent to endorsing? I'm not well-grounded in parliamentary procedure.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 1:17 PM Nathan Wilson via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I like the generalize statement. It's good to be able to use this regardless of what the tweet is. With that being said, when I was acting executive director I would just use responses from national if they chose to respond to tweet or reshare. Saves us the effort oh coming up with something, and is usually very well worded.
I vote yes.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 1:09 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
We don't have to respond to all of his tweets because we respond to one. Regardless, if libertarians wanted to suggest that we do so by writing such responses for us to consider, I'd say we should probably consider them.
My take is that this particular tweet from the President, and the subsequent rally in NC, is a step further than we've typically seen in the past, and a step over a line I'm not comfortable with the POTUS stepping over.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 12:59, Christine Austin via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
But since the motion has been seconded, I will open the discussion.
I am concerned about responding to any particular tweets from the president. Because if we respond to one then we have to respond to all and that would just be ridiculous. Besides Trump is certainly not the only politician who is spewing hate in the public discourse. I would be more in favor of a more generally worded statement that does not address a specific behavior by a specific politician.
What about replacing
"In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States"
With.....
"In light of the current state of politically charged bigotry and hatred in our country"
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 19, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I will second the motion and add that I'm feeling torn. On the one hand I agree with what is said here. On the other hand, I feel that the drama that is involved with Trump and his tweets is in itself divisive propaganda that serves to pull attention toward his rhetoric and away from his actual policy. I would rather not participate in that. That said, to not speak out when we are being asked to does seem to imply support. If we do make this official statement, I would change "bigoted statements" to simply "statements". "Bigoted statements" although we may agree that it is correct, seems subjective rather than factual.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 12:18 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Hey Team,
We had a concerned libertarian reach out and ask why we haven't made a statement about Donald Trump's recent tweets and statements. He went so far as to send a statement he'd like to see. Laurie took a look and edited it up and I think we're ready for a motion.
I move to make an official statement of the Libertarian Party of Georgia regarding the Trump rhetoric as follows:
In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States and the silence of many who fail to condemn these statements (and whose inaction is sometimes interpreted as support), we the members and supporters of the Libertarian Party restate our condemnation of any and all acts of bigotry, racism, and hatred by any person against any other. To view individuals primarily as members of a group or bound by immutable characteristics is a violation of our values celebrating rights of the individual.
Politicians fostering divisiveness, bigotry, and collectivism among individuals are a threat to America's identity as a melting pot of cultural influence and a steward of equality before the law. We the Libertarian Party embrace America's diversity and affirm our pursuit of the principles of liberty and justice for all individuals.
We need a second before voting can begin.
--
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
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Absolutely not; no way, no how. The man is not a racist. It's true that he doesn't parse his words --- but then, he's not a politician. He's a builder. So, he talks like a construction worker. Construction workers are not noted for their precision of utterance. And, yes, they are occasionally coarse or boorish. Doesn't make them bigots. The President is often given to rhetorical hyperbole. BFD. Get over it. MZ. On Monday, July 22, 2019, 2:10:37 PM PDT, Amanda Brown via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote: Nay On Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 3:37 PM Evan Durkovic via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote: Nay. Evan Durkovic On Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 9:49 AM Stephanie Aylworth via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote: Nay. On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 9:15 AM Jay Guidry via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote: Can’t remmwber if I voted but nay if I didn’t On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 9:12 AM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote: Bumping this thread for more votes. Please effort a vote today if you haven't. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia On 2019-07-19 16:30, Ted Metz via Lpgaexcomm wrote: Nay. Wherein condemning stupidity is pointless in and of itself, condeming a sentiment that is widley popular will not grow the party. As Sam Clement said, "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." On Jul 19, 2019 3:31 PM, "christine00austin--- via Lpgaexcomm" <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote: I agree with Ryan that some people do this, but I think the logic that it helps us move on is flawed. Some people certainly think this, but it actually forces us to discuss and debate and then vote on an issue that should have died for lack of a second. Letting a motion die for lack of a second actually helps on to more on much more effectively. You can always reach out to the originator of the motion and make suggestions for changes that could be made in order to secure your support. From: Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm-bounces@lists.lpgeorgia.com> On Behalf Of Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 2:27 PM To: lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com Cc: Ryan Graham <ryan.graham@lpgeorgia.com> Subject: Re: [LPGa Executive Committee] Official Statement on Donald Trump's Divisive Rhetoric It just depends on you. Some people second everything so we can move on to discussion or voting, even if they plan on voting nay. Some people won't second things unless they support it. Purely personal. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia On 2019-07-19 14:22, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm wrote: I am seconding the motion that we vote on it/discuss it. Is seconding equivalent to endorsing? I'm not well-grounded in parliamentary procedure. On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 1:17 PM Nathan Wilson via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote: I like the generalize statement. It's good to be able to use this regardless of what the tweet is. With that being said, when I was acting executive director I would just use responses from national if they chose to respond to tweet or reshare. Saves us the effort oh coming up with something, and is usually very well worded. I vote yes. On Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 1:09 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote: We don't have to respond to all of his tweets because we respond to one. Regardless, if libertarians wanted to suggest that we do so by writing such responses for us to consider, I'd say we should probably consider them. My take is that this particular tweet from the President, and the subsequent rally in NC, is a step further than we've typically seen in the past, and a step over a line I'm not comfortable with the POTUS stepping over. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia On 2019-07-19 12:59, Christine Austin via Lpgaexcomm wrote: But since the motion has been seconded, I will open the discussion. I am concerned about responding to any particular tweets from the president. Because if we respond to one then we have to respond to all and that would just be ridiculous. Besides Trump is certainly not the only politician who is spewing hate in the public discourse. I would be more in favor of a more generally worded statement that does not address a specific behavior by a specific politician. What about replacing "In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States" With..... "In light of the current state of politically charged bigotry and hatred in our country" Sent from my iPhone On Jul 19, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote: I will second the motion and add that I'm feeling torn. On the one hand I agree with what is said here. On the other hand, I feel that the drama that is involved with Trump and his tweets is in itself divisive propaganda that serves to pull attention toward his rhetoric and away from his actual policy. I would rather not participate in that. That said, to not speak out when we are being asked to does seem to imply support. If we do make this official statement, I would change "bigoted statements" to simply "statements". "Bigoted statements" although we may agree that it is correct, seems subjective rather than factual. On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 12:18 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote: Hey Team, We had a concerned libertarian reach out and ask why we haven't made a statement about Donald Trump's recent tweets and statements. He went so far as to send a statement he'd like to see. Laurie took a look and edited it up and I think we're ready for a motion. I move to make an official statement of the Libertarian Party of Georgia regarding the Trump rhetoric as follows: In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States and the silence of many who fail to condemn these statements (and whose inaction is sometimes interpreted as support), we the members and supporters of the Libertarian Party restate our condemnation of any and all acts of bigotry, racism, and hatred by any person against any other. To view individuals primarily as members of a group or bound by immutable characteristics is a violation of our values celebrating rights of the individual. Politicians fostering divisiveness, bigotry, and collectivism among individuals are a threat to America's identity as a melting pot of cultural influence and a steward of equality before the law. We the Libertarian Party embrace America's diversity and affirm our pursuit of the principles of liberty and justice for all individuals. We need a second before voting can begin. -- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm _______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm
Out of town for a while. Nay On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 8:01 PM Michael Zebulon via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Absolutely not; no way, no how. The man is not a racist.
It's true that he doesn't parse his words --- but then, he's not a politician.
He's a *builder*. So, he talks like a construction worker.
Construction workers are not noted for their precision of utterance.
And, yes, they are occasionally coarse or boorish.
Doesn't make them bigots.
The President is often given to rhetorical hyperbole.
BFD.
*Get over it.*
MZ.
On Monday, July 22, 2019, 2:10:37 PM PDT, Amanda Brown via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Nay
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 3:37 PM Evan Durkovic via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Nay.
Evan Durkovic
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 9:49 AM Stephanie Aylworth via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Nay.
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 9:15 AM Jay Guidry via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Can’t remmwber if I voted but nay if I didn’t
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 9:12 AM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Bumping this thread for more votes. Please effort a vote today if you haven't. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 16:30, Ted Metz via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
Nay.
Wherein condemning stupidity is pointless in and of itself, condeming a sentiment that is widley popular will not grow the party.
As Sam Clement said, "*Never argue* with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
On Jul 19, 2019 3:31 PM, "christine00austin--- via Lpgaexcomm" < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I agree with Ryan that some people do this, but I think the logic that it helps us move on is flawed. Some people certainly think this, but it actually forces us to discuss and debate and then vote on an issue that should have died for lack of a second. Letting a motion die for lack of a second actually helps on to more on much more effectively.
You can always reach out to the originator of the motion and make suggestions for changes that could be made in order to secure your support.
*From:* Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm-bounces@lists.lpgeorgia.com> *On Behalf Of *Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm *Sent:* Friday, July 19, 2019 2:27 PM *To:* lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com *Cc:* Ryan Graham <ryan.graham@lpgeorgia.com> *Subject:* Re: [LPGa Executive Committee] Official Statement on Donald Trump's Divisive Rhetoric
It just depends on you. Some people second everything so we can move on to discussion or voting, even if they plan on voting nay. Some people won't second things unless they support it. Purely personal.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 14:22, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
I am seconding the motion that we vote on it/discuss it. Is seconding equivalent to endorsing? I'm not well-grounded in parliamentary procedure.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 1:17 PM Nathan Wilson via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I like the generalize statement. It's good to be able to use this regardless of what the tweet is. With that being said, when I was acting executive director I would just use responses from national if they chose to respond to tweet or reshare. Saves us the effort oh coming up with something, and is usually very well worded.
I vote yes.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 1:09 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
We don't have to respond to all of his tweets because we respond to one. Regardless, if libertarians wanted to suggest that we do so by writing such responses for us to consider, I'd say we should probably consider them.
My take is that this particular tweet from the President, and the subsequent rally in NC, is a step further than we've typically seen in the past, and a step over a line I'm not comfortable with the POTUS stepping over.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 12:59, Christine Austin via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
But since the motion has been seconded, I will open the discussion.
I am concerned about responding to any particular tweets from the president. Because if we respond to one then we have to respond to all and that would just be ridiculous. Besides Trump is certainly not the only politician who is spewing hate in the public discourse. I would be more in favor of a more generally worded statement that does not address a specific behavior by a specific politician.
What about replacing
"In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States"
With.....
"In light of the current state of politically charged bigotry and hatred in our country"
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 19, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I will second the motion and add that I'm feeling torn. On the one hand I agree with what is said here. On the other hand, I feel that the drama that is involved with Trump and his tweets is in itself divisive propaganda that serves to pull attention toward his rhetoric and away from his actual policy. I would rather not participate in that. That said, to not speak out when we are being asked to does seem to imply support. If we do make this official statement, I would change "bigoted statements" to simply "statements". "Bigoted statements" although we may agree that it is correct, seems subjective rather than factual.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 12:18 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Hey Team,
We had a concerned libertarian reach out and ask why we haven't made a statement about Donald Trump's recent tweets and statements. He went so far as to send a statement he'd like to see. Laurie took a look and edited it up and I think we're ready for a motion.
I move to make an official statement of the Libertarian Party of Georgia regarding the Trump rhetoric as follows:
In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States and the silence of many who fail to condemn these statements (and whose inaction is sometimes interpreted as support), we the members and supporters of the Libertarian Party restate our condemnation of any and all acts of bigotry, racism, and hatred by any person against any other. To view individuals primarily as members of a group or bound by immutable characteristics is a violation of our values celebrating rights of the individual.
Politicians fostering divisiveness, bigotry, and collectivism among individuals are a threat to America's identity as a melting pot of cultural influence and a steward of equality before the law. We the Libertarian Party embrace America's diversity and affirm our pursuit of the principles of liberty and justice for all individuals.
We need a second before voting can begin.
--
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
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We have enough votes to close this out. Motion failed 1-14-0. Thanks, everyone! On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 12:19 PM Bobby Rouse via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Out of town for a while. Nay
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 8:01 PM Michael Zebulon via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Absolutely not; no way, no how. The man is not a racist.
It's true that he doesn't parse his words --- but then, he's not a politician.
He's a *builder*. So, he talks like a construction worker.
Construction workers are not noted for their precision of utterance.
And, yes, they are occasionally coarse or boorish.
Doesn't make them bigots.
The President is often given to rhetorical hyperbole.
BFD.
*Get over it.*
MZ.
On Monday, July 22, 2019, 2:10:37 PM PDT, Amanda Brown via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Nay
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 3:37 PM Evan Durkovic via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Nay.
Evan Durkovic
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 9:49 AM Stephanie Aylworth via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Nay.
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 9:15 AM Jay Guidry via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Can’t remmwber if I voted but nay if I didn’t
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 9:12 AM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Bumping this thread for more votes. Please effort a vote today if you haven't. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 16:30, Ted Metz via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
Nay.
Wherein condemning stupidity is pointless in and of itself, condeming a sentiment that is widley popular will not grow the party.
As Sam Clement said, "*Never argue* with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
On Jul 19, 2019 3:31 PM, "christine00austin--- via Lpgaexcomm" < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I agree with Ryan that some people do this, but I think the logic that it helps us move on is flawed. Some people certainly think this, but it actually forces us to discuss and debate and then vote on an issue that should have died for lack of a second. Letting a motion die for lack of a second actually helps on to more on much more effectively.
You can always reach out to the originator of the motion and make suggestions for changes that could be made in order to secure your support.
*From:* Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm-bounces@lists.lpgeorgia.com> *On Behalf Of *Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm *Sent:* Friday, July 19, 2019 2:27 PM *To:* lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com *Cc:* Ryan Graham <ryan.graham@lpgeorgia.com> *Subject:* Re: [LPGa Executive Committee] Official Statement on Donald Trump's Divisive Rhetoric
It just depends on you. Some people second everything so we can move on to discussion or voting, even if they plan on voting nay. Some people won't second things unless they support it. Purely personal.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 14:22, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
I am seconding the motion that we vote on it/discuss it. Is seconding equivalent to endorsing? I'm not well-grounded in parliamentary procedure.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 1:17 PM Nathan Wilson via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I like the generalize statement. It's good to be able to use this regardless of what the tweet is. With that being said, when I was acting executive director I would just use responses from national if they chose to respond to tweet or reshare. Saves us the effort oh coming up with something, and is usually very well worded.
I vote yes.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 1:09 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
We don't have to respond to all of his tweets because we respond to one. Regardless, if libertarians wanted to suggest that we do so by writing such responses for us to consider, I'd say we should probably consider them.
My take is that this particular tweet from the President, and the subsequent rally in NC, is a step further than we've typically seen in the past, and a step over a line I'm not comfortable with the POTUS stepping over.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 12:59, Christine Austin via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
But since the motion has been seconded, I will open the discussion.
I am concerned about responding to any particular tweets from the president. Because if we respond to one then we have to respond to all and that would just be ridiculous. Besides Trump is certainly not the only politician who is spewing hate in the public discourse. I would be more in favor of a more generally worded statement that does not address a specific behavior by a specific politician.
What about replacing
"In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States"
With.....
"In light of the current state of politically charged bigotry and hatred in our country"
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 19, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I will second the motion and add that I'm feeling torn. On the one hand I agree with what is said here. On the other hand, I feel that the drama that is involved with Trump and his tweets is in itself divisive propaganda that serves to pull attention toward his rhetoric and away from his actual policy. I would rather not participate in that. That said, to not speak out when we are being asked to does seem to imply support. If we do make this official statement, I would change "bigoted statements" to simply "statements". "Bigoted statements" although we may agree that it is correct, seems subjective rather than factual.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 12:18 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Hey Team,
We had a concerned libertarian reach out and ask why we haven't made a statement about Donald Trump's recent tweets and statements. He went so far as to send a statement he'd like to see. Laurie took a look and edited it up and I think we're ready for a motion.
I move to make an official statement of the Libertarian Party of Georgia regarding the Trump rhetoric as follows:
In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States and the silence of many who fail to condemn these statements (and whose inaction is sometimes interpreted as support), we the members and supporters of the Libertarian Party restate our condemnation of any and all acts of bigotry, racism, and hatred by any person against any other. To view individuals primarily as members of a group or bound by immutable characteristics is a violation of our values celebrating rights of the individual.
Politicians fostering divisiveness, bigotry, and collectivism among individuals are a threat to America's identity as a melting pot of cultural influence and a steward of equality before the law. We the Libertarian Party embrace America's diversity and affirm our pursuit of the principles of liberty and justice for all individuals.
We need a second before voting can begin.
--
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
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Nay Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 22, 2019, at 9:12 AM, Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Bumping this thread for more votes. Please effort a vote today if you haven't.
--- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 16:30, Ted Metz via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
Nay.
Wherein condemning stupidity is pointless in and of itself, condeming a sentiment that is widley popular will not grow the party.
As Sam Clement said, "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
On Jul 19, 2019 3:31 PM, "christine00austin--- via Lpgaexcomm" <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote: I agree with Ryan that some people do this, but I think the logic that it helps us move on is flawed. Some people certainly think this, but it actually forces us to discuss and debate and then vote on an issue that should have died for lack of a second. Letting a motion die for lack of a second actually helps on to more on much more effectively.
You can always reach out to the originator of the motion and make suggestions for changes that could be made in order to secure your support.
From: Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm-bounces@lists.lpgeorgia.com> On Behalf Of Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 2:27 PM To: lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com Cc: Ryan Graham <ryan.graham@lpgeorgia.com> Subject: Re: [LPGa Executive Committee] Official Statement on Donald Trump's Divisive Rhetoric
It just depends on you. Some people second everything so we can move on to discussion or voting, even if they plan on voting nay. Some people won't second things unless they support it. Purely personal.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 14:22, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
I am seconding the motion that we vote on it/discuss it. Is seconding equivalent to endorsing? I'm not well-grounded in parliamentary procedure.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 1:17 PM Nathan Wilson via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I like the generalize statement. It's good to be able to use this regardless of what the tweet is. With that being said, when I was acting executive director I would just use responses from national if they chose to respond to tweet or reshare. Saves us the effort oh coming up with something, and is usually very well worded.
I vote yes.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 1:09 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
We don't have to respond to all of his tweets because we respond to one. Regardless, if libertarians wanted to suggest that we do so by writing such responses for us to consider, I'd say we should probably consider them.
My take is that this particular tweet from the President, and the subsequent rally in NC, is a step further than we've typically seen in the past, and a step over a line I'm not comfortable with the POTUS stepping over.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 12:59, Christine Austin via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
But since the motion has been seconded, I will open the discussion.
I am concerned about responding to any particular tweets from the president. Because if we respond to one then we have to respond to all and that would just be ridiculous. Besides Trump is certainly not the only politician who is spewing hate in the public discourse. I would be more in favor of a more generally worded statement that does not address a specific behavior by a specific politician.
What about replacing
"In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States"
With.....
"In light of the current state of politically charged bigotry and hatred in our country"
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 19, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I will second the motion and add that I'm feeling torn. On the one hand I agree with what is said here. On the other hand, I feel that the drama that is involved with Trump and his tweets is in itself divisive propaganda that serves to pull attention toward his rhetoric and away from his actual policy. I would rather not participate in that. That said, to not speak out when we are being asked to does seem to imply support. If we do make this official statement, I would change "bigoted statements" to simply "statements". "Bigoted statements" although we may agree that it is correct, seems subjective rather than factual.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 12:18 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Hey Team,
We had a concerned libertarian reach out and ask why we haven't made a statement about Donald Trump's recent tweets and statements. He went so far as to send a statement he'd like to see. Laurie took a look and edited it up and I think we're ready for a motion.
I move to make an official statement of the Libertarian Party of Georgia regarding the Trump rhetoric as follows:
In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States and the silence of many who fail to condemn these statements (and whose inaction is sometimes interpreted as support), we the members and supporters of the Libertarian Party restate our condemnation of any and all acts of bigotry, racism, and hatred by any person against any other. To view individuals primarily as members of a group or bound by immutable characteristics is a violation of our values celebrating rights of the individual.
Politicians fostering divisiveness, bigotry, and collectivism among individuals are a threat to America's identity as a melting pot of cultural influence and a steward of equality before the law. We the Libertarian Party embrace America's diversity and affirm our pursuit of the principles of liberty and justice for all individuals.
We need a second before voting can begin.
--
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
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Nay On Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 10:06 AM Christine Austin via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Nay
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 22, 2019, at 9:12 AM, Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Bumping this thread for more votes. Please effort a vote today if you haven't. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 16:30, Ted Metz via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
Nay.
Wherein condemning stupidity is pointless in and of itself, condeming a sentiment that is widley popular will not grow the party.
As Sam Clement said, "*Never argue* with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
On Jul 19, 2019 3:31 PM, "christine00austin--- via Lpgaexcomm" < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I agree with Ryan that some people do this, but I think the logic that it helps us move on is flawed. Some people certainly think this, but it actually forces us to discuss and debate and then vote on an issue that should have died for lack of a second. Letting a motion die for lack of a second actually helps on to more on much more effectively.
You can always reach out to the originator of the motion and make suggestions for changes that could be made in order to secure your support.
*From:* Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm-bounces@lists.lpgeorgia.com> *On Behalf Of *Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm *Sent:* Friday, July 19, 2019 2:27 PM *To:* lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com *Cc:* Ryan Graham <ryan.graham@lpgeorgia.com> *Subject:* Re: [LPGa Executive Committee] Official Statement on Donald Trump's Divisive Rhetoric
It just depends on you. Some people second everything so we can move on to discussion or voting, even if they plan on voting nay. Some people won't second things unless they support it. Purely personal.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 14:22, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
I am seconding the motion that we vote on it/discuss it. Is seconding equivalent to endorsing? I'm not well-grounded in parliamentary procedure.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 1:17 PM Nathan Wilson via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I like the generalize statement. It's good to be able to use this regardless of what the tweet is. With that being said, when I was acting executive director I would just use responses from national if they chose to respond to tweet or reshare. Saves us the effort oh coming up with something, and is usually very well worded.
I vote yes.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 1:09 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
We don't have to respond to all of his tweets because we respond to one. Regardless, if libertarians wanted to suggest that we do so by writing such responses for us to consider, I'd say we should probably consider them.
My take is that this particular tweet from the President, and the subsequent rally in NC, is a step further than we've typically seen in the past, and a step over a line I'm not comfortable with the POTUS stepping over.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 12:59, Christine Austin via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
But since the motion has been seconded, I will open the discussion.
I am concerned about responding to any particular tweets from the president. Because if we respond to one then we have to respond to all and that would just be ridiculous. Besides Trump is certainly not the only politician who is spewing hate in the public discourse. I would be more in favor of a more generally worded statement that does not address a specific behavior by a specific politician.
What about replacing
"In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States"
With.....
"In light of the current state of politically charged bigotry and hatred in our country"
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 19, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I will second the motion and add that I'm feeling torn. On the one hand I agree with what is said here. On the other hand, I feel that the drama that is involved with Trump and his tweets is in itself divisive propaganda that serves to pull attention toward his rhetoric and away from his actual policy. I would rather not participate in that. That said, to not speak out when we are being asked to does seem to imply support. If we do make this official statement, I would change "bigoted statements" to simply "statements". "Bigoted statements" although we may agree that it is correct, seems subjective rather than factual.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 12:18 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Hey Team,
We had a concerned libertarian reach out and ask why we haven't made a statement about Donald Trump's recent tweets and statements. He went so far as to send a statement he'd like to see. Laurie took a look and edited it up and I think we're ready for a motion.
I move to make an official statement of the Libertarian Party of Georgia regarding the Trump rhetoric as follows:
In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States and the silence of many who fail to condemn these statements (and whose inaction is sometimes interpreted as support), we the members and supporters of the Libertarian Party restate our condemnation of any and all acts of bigotry, racism, and hatred by any person against any other. To view individuals primarily as members of a group or bound by immutable characteristics is a violation of our values celebrating rights of the individual.
Politicians fostering divisiveness, bigotry, and collectivism among individuals are a threat to America's identity as a melting pot of cultural influence and a steward of equality before the law. We the Libertarian Party embrace America's diversity and affirm our pursuit of the principles of liberty and justice for all individuals.
We need a second before voting can begin.
--
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
_______________________________________________ Lpgaexcomm mailing list Lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpgaexcomm
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Nay. On Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 11:25 AM Seth Benton via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Nay
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 10:06 AM Christine Austin via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Nay
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 22, 2019, at 9:12 AM, Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Bumping this thread for more votes. Please effort a vote today if you haven't. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 16:30, Ted Metz via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
Nay.
Wherein condemning stupidity is pointless in and of itself, condeming a sentiment that is widley popular will not grow the party.
As Sam Clement said, "*Never argue* with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
On Jul 19, 2019 3:31 PM, "christine00austin--- via Lpgaexcomm" < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I agree with Ryan that some people do this, but I think the logic that it helps us move on is flawed. Some people certainly think this, but it actually forces us to discuss and debate and then vote on an issue that should have died for lack of a second. Letting a motion die for lack of a second actually helps on to more on much more effectively.
You can always reach out to the originator of the motion and make suggestions for changes that could be made in order to secure your support.
*From:* Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm-bounces@lists.lpgeorgia.com> *On Behalf Of *Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm *Sent:* Friday, July 19, 2019 2:27 PM *To:* lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com *Cc:* Ryan Graham <ryan.graham@lpgeorgia.com> *Subject:* Re: [LPGa Executive Committee] Official Statement on Donald Trump's Divisive Rhetoric
It just depends on you. Some people second everything so we can move on to discussion or voting, even if they plan on voting nay. Some people won't second things unless they support it. Purely personal.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 14:22, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
I am seconding the motion that we vote on it/discuss it. Is seconding equivalent to endorsing? I'm not well-grounded in parliamentary procedure.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 1:17 PM Nathan Wilson via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I like the generalize statement. It's good to be able to use this regardless of what the tweet is. With that being said, when I was acting executive director I would just use responses from national if they chose to respond to tweet or reshare. Saves us the effort oh coming up with something, and is usually very well worded.
I vote yes.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 1:09 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
We don't have to respond to all of his tweets because we respond to one. Regardless, if libertarians wanted to suggest that we do so by writing such responses for us to consider, I'd say we should probably consider them.
My take is that this particular tweet from the President, and the subsequent rally in NC, is a step further than we've typically seen in the past, and a step over a line I'm not comfortable with the POTUS stepping over.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 12:59, Christine Austin via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
But since the motion has been seconded, I will open the discussion.
I am concerned about responding to any particular tweets from the president. Because if we respond to one then we have to respond to all and that would just be ridiculous. Besides Trump is certainly not the only politician who is spewing hate in the public discourse. I would be more in favor of a more generally worded statement that does not address a specific behavior by a specific politician.
What about replacing
"In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States"
With.....
"In light of the current state of politically charged bigotry and hatred in our country"
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 19, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I will second the motion and add that I'm feeling torn. On the one hand I agree with what is said here. On the other hand, I feel that the drama that is involved with Trump and his tweets is in itself divisive propaganda that serves to pull attention toward his rhetoric and away from his actual policy. I would rather not participate in that. That said, to not speak out when we are being asked to does seem to imply support. If we do make this official statement, I would change "bigoted statements" to simply "statements". "Bigoted statements" although we may agree that it is correct, seems subjective rather than factual.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 12:18 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Hey Team,
We had a concerned libertarian reach out and ask why we haven't made a statement about Donald Trump's recent tweets and statements. He went so far as to send a statement he'd like to see. Laurie took a look and edited it up and I think we're ready for a motion.
I move to make an official statement of the Libertarian Party of Georgia regarding the Trump rhetoric as follows:
In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States and the silence of many who fail to condemn these statements (and whose inaction is sometimes interpreted as support), we the members and supporters of the Libertarian Party restate our condemnation of any and all acts of bigotry, racism, and hatred by any person against any other. To view individuals primarily as members of a group or bound by immutable characteristics is a violation of our values celebrating rights of the individual.
Politicians fostering divisiveness, bigotry, and collectivism among individuals are a threat to America's identity as a melting pot of cultural influence and a steward of equality before the law. We the Libertarian Party embrace America's diversity and affirm our pursuit of the principles of liberty and justice for all individuals.
We need a second before voting can begin.
--
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
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No; not worth wasting time on On 7/22/2019 12:55 PM, Laura Williams via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
Nay.
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 11:25 AM Seth Benton via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com <mailto:lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com>> wrote:
Nay
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 10:06 AM Christine Austin via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com <mailto:lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com>> wrote:
Nay
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 22, 2019, at 9:12 AM, Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com <mailto:lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com>> wrote:
Bumping this thread for more votes. Please effort a vote today if you haven't.
--- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 16:30, Ted Metz via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
Nay. Wherein condemning stupidity is pointless in and of itself, condeming a sentiment that is widley popular will not grow the party. As Sam Clement said, "*Never argue* with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
On Jul 19, 2019 3:31 PM, "christine00austin--- via Lpgaexcomm" <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com <mailto:lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com>> wrote:
I agree with Ryan that some people do this, but I think the logic that it helps us move on is flawed. Some people certainly think this, but it actually forces us to discuss and debate and then vote on an issue that should have died for lack of a second. Letting a motion die for lack of a second actually helps on to more on much more effectively.
You can always reach out to the originator of the motion and make suggestions for changes that could be made in order to secure your support.
*From:* Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm-bounces@lists.lpgeorgia.com <mailto:lpgaexcomm-bounces@lists.lpgeorgia.com>> *On Behalf Of *Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm *Sent:* Friday, July 19, 2019 2:27 PM *To:* lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com <mailto:lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> *Cc:* Ryan Graham <ryan.graham@lpgeorgia.com <mailto:ryan.graham@lpgeorgia.com>> *Subject:* Re: [LPGa Executive Committee] Official Statement on Donald Trump's Divisive Rhetoric
It just depends on you. Some people second everything so we can move on to discussion or voting, even if they plan on voting nay. Some people won't second things unless they support it. Purely personal.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 14:22, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
I am seconding the motion that we vote on it/discuss it. Is seconding equivalent to endorsing? I'm not well-grounded in parliamentary procedure.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 1:17 PM Nathan Wilson via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com <mailto:lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com>> wrote:
I like the generalize statement. It's good to be able to use this regardless of what the tweet is. With that being said, when I was acting executive director I would just use responses from national if they chose to respond to tweet or reshare. Saves us the effort oh coming up with something, and is usually very well worded.
I vote yes.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 1:09 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com <mailto:lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com>> wrote:
We don't have to respond to all of his tweets because we respond to one. Regardless, if libertarians wanted to suggest that we do so by writing such responses for us to consider, I'd say we should probably consider them.
My take is that this particular tweet from the President, and the subsequent rally in NC, is a step further than we've typically seen in the past, and a step over a line I'm not comfortable with the POTUS stepping over.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 12:59, Christine Austin via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
But since the motion has been seconded, I will open the discussion.
I am concerned about responding to any particular tweets from the president. Because if we respond to one then we have to respond to all and that would just be ridiculous. Besides Trump is certainly not the only politician who is spewing hate in the public discourse. I would be more in favor of a more generally worded statement that does not address a specific behavior by a specific politician.
What about replacing
"In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States"
With.....
"In light of the current state of politically charged bigotry and hatred in our country"
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 19, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com <mailto:lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com>> wrote:
I will second the motion and add that I'm feeling torn. On the one hand I agree with what is said here. On the other hand, I feel that the drama that is involved with Trump and his tweets is in itself divisive propaganda that serves to pull attention toward his rhetoric and away from his actual policy. I would rather not participate in that. That said, to not speak out when we are being asked to does seem to imply support. If we do make this official statement, I would change "bigoted statements" to simply "statements". "Bigoted statements" although we may agree that it is correct, seems subjective rather than factual.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 12:18 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com <mailto:lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com>> wrote:
Hey Team,
We had a concerned libertarian reach out and ask why we haven't made a statement about Donald Trump's recent tweets and statements. He went so far as to send a statement he'd like to see. Laurie took a look and edited it up and I think we're ready for a motion.
I move to make an official statement of the Libertarian Party of Georgia regarding the Trump rhetoric as follows:
In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States and the silence of many who fail to condemn these statements (and whose inaction is sometimes interpreted as support), we the members and supporters of the Libertarian Party restate our condemnation of any and all acts of bigotry, racism, and hatred by any person against any other. To view individuals primarily as members of a group or bound by immutable characteristics is a violation of our values celebrating rights of the individual.
Politicians fostering divisiveness, bigotry, and collectivism among individuals are a threat to America's identity as a melting pot of cultural influence and a steward of equality before the law. We the Libertarian Party embrace America's diversity and affirm our pursuit of the principles of liberty and justice for all individuals.
We need a second before voting can begin.
--
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
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Nay On Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 13:09 Allen Buckley via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
No; not worth wasting time on On 7/22/2019 12:55 PM, Laura Williams via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
Nay.
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 11:25 AM Seth Benton via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Nay
On Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 10:06 AM Christine Austin via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Nay
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 22, 2019, at 9:12 AM, Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Bumping this thread for more votes. Please effort a vote today if you haven't. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 16:30, Ted Metz via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
Nay.
Wherein condemning stupidity is pointless in and of itself, condeming a sentiment that is widley popular will not grow the party.
As Sam Clement said, "*Never argue* with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
On Jul 19, 2019 3:31 PM, "christine00austin--- via Lpgaexcomm" < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I agree with Ryan that some people do this, but I think the logic that it helps us move on is flawed. Some people certainly think this, but it actually forces us to discuss and debate and then vote on an issue that should have died for lack of a second. Letting a motion die for lack of a second actually helps on to more on much more effectively.
You can always reach out to the originator of the motion and make suggestions for changes that could be made in order to secure your support.
*From:* Lpgaexcomm <lpgaexcomm-bounces@lists.lpgeorgia.com> *On Behalf Of *Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm *Sent:* Friday, July 19, 2019 2:27 PM *To:* lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com *Cc:* Ryan Graham <ryan.graham@lpgeorgia.com> *Subject:* Re: [LPGa Executive Committee] Official Statement on Donald Trump's Divisive Rhetoric
It just depends on you. Some people second everything so we can move on to discussion or voting, even if they plan on voting nay. Some people won't second things unless they support it. Purely personal.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 14:22, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
I am seconding the motion that we vote on it/discuss it. Is seconding equivalent to endorsing? I'm not well-grounded in parliamentary procedure.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 1:17 PM Nathan Wilson via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I like the generalize statement. It's good to be able to use this regardless of what the tweet is. With that being said, when I was acting executive director I would just use responses from national if they chose to respond to tweet or reshare. Saves us the effort oh coming up with something, and is usually very well worded.
I vote yes.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 1:09 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
We don't have to respond to all of his tweets because we respond to one. Regardless, if libertarians wanted to suggest that we do so by writing such responses for us to consider, I'd say we should probably consider them.
My take is that this particular tweet from the President, and the subsequent rally in NC, is a step further than we've typically seen in the past, and a step over a line I'm not comfortable with the POTUS stepping over.
---
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
On 2019-07-19 12:59, Christine Austin via Lpgaexcomm wrote:
But since the motion has been seconded, I will open the discussion.
I am concerned about responding to any particular tweets from the president. Because if we respond to one then we have to respond to all and that would just be ridiculous. Besides Trump is certainly not the only politician who is spewing hate in the public discourse. I would be more in favor of a more generally worded statement that does not address a specific behavior by a specific politician.
What about replacing
"In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States"
With.....
"In light of the current state of politically charged bigotry and hatred in our country"
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 19, 2019, at 12:41 PM, Elizabeth M via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
I will second the motion and add that I'm feeling torn. On the one hand I agree with what is said here. On the other hand, I feel that the drama that is involved with Trump and his tweets is in itself divisive propaganda that serves to pull attention toward his rhetoric and away from his actual policy. I would rather not participate in that. That said, to not speak out when we are being asked to does seem to imply support. If we do make this official statement, I would change "bigoted statements" to simply "statements". "Bigoted statements" although we may agree that it is correct, seems subjective rather than factual.
On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 12:18 PM Ryan Graham via Lpgaexcomm < lpgaexcomm@lists.lpgeorgia.com> wrote:
Hey Team,
We had a concerned libertarian reach out and ask why we haven't made a statement about Donald Trump's recent tweets and statements. He went so far as to send a statement he'd like to see. Laurie took a look and edited it up and I think we're ready for a motion.
I move to make an official statement of the Libertarian Party of Georgia regarding the Trump rhetoric as follows:
In light of recent bigoted statements by the President of the United States and the silence of many who fail to condemn these statements (and whose inaction is sometimes interpreted as support), we the members and supporters of the Libertarian Party restate our condemnation of any and all acts of bigotry, racism, and hatred by any person against any other. To view individuals primarily as members of a group or bound by immutable characteristics is a violation of our values celebrating rights of the individual.
Politicians fostering divisiveness, bigotry, and collectivism among individuals are a threat to America's identity as a melting pot of cultural influence and a steward of equality before the law. We the Libertarian Party embrace America's diversity and affirm our pursuit of the principles of liberty and justice for all individuals.
We need a second before voting can begin.
--
In Liberty, Ryan Graham Chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia
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Phone: (678) 981-4689 Fax: (855) 243-0006
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participants (14)
-
Allen Buckley -
Amanda Brown -
Amber Howell -
Bobby Rouse -
Christine Austin -
Evan Durkovic -
Jay Guidry -
Laura Williams -
Michael Zebulon -
Ryan Graham -
Seth Benton -
Smythe DuVal -
Stephanie Aylworth -
Ted Metz