An article that may be of interest to the members of the Libertarian National Committee
Dear All, This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday. https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug Yours in liberty, Nick
I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper. On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in liberty, Nick
-- *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
I also hear of interference with the work of the bylaws committee. This is way beyond the bounds of propriety. On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 11:49 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in liberty, Nick
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
Spreading rumors is also outside the bounds of propriety. --- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY) On 2020-05-03 13:57, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
I also hear of interference with the work of the bylaws committee. This is way beyond the bounds of propriety.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 11:49 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in liberty, Nick
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
I made the following request of the Chair of the Bylaws Committee on a social media post announcing today's Zoom meeting: “I'm not sure if I will be able to attend, but what I would like from the committee is a recommendation for how we could hold an online convention hewing as closely as possible to our current bylaws and convention rules over Memorial Day weekend. Specific things like what form a motion ratifying the proceedings should take, suggestions for how to facilitate deliberation over that motion and a motion to amend the agenda to only consist of elections for LNC, President, Vice President, and Judicial Committee. Also, how to make a motion at the end to adjourn to a physical convention should there be a certain time, date, and place to consider at the end of the session. I would like this recommendation to be communicated to the Convention Oversight Committee, the entire LNC, and staff.” I stand by it. Yours in liberty, Nick On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 1:57 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I also hear of interference with the work of the bylaws committee. This is way beyond the bounds of propriety.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 11:49 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in liberty, Nick
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
As Bylaws chair, I plan on forwarding this request, as well as a request for "rules on an electronic convention" and "the possibility of delegates to vote remotely through their delegation chair." Mr. Wiest, an alternate on the Committee, also has a proposal on the last item that we may consider. My personal gut response, though, is that my understanding of the Bylaws Committee's role is to prepare proposals for delegates at Convention, not motions for the LNC. We did offer to the COC to prepare language for them any options that would need to go to the delegates, and prepared language for the one option (the so-called "rump" convention) we were requested to prepare. I do not believe that the Bylaws Committee, unlike the COC, has the power to sponsor proposals to the LNC or make recommendations to the LNC. JBH ------------ Joe Bishop-Henchman LNC Member (At-Large) joe.bishop-henchman@lp.org www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837 On 2020-05-03 14:11, Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business wrote:
I made the following request of the Chair of the Bylaws Committee on a social media post announcing today's Zoom meeting:
“I'm not sure if I will be able to attend, but what I would like from the committee is a recommendation for how we could hold an online convention hewing as closely as possible to our current bylaws and convention rules over Memorial Day weekend.
Specific things like what form a motion ratifying the proceedings should take, suggestions for how to facilitate deliberation over that motion and a motion to amend the agenda to only consist of elections for LNC, President, Vice President, and Judicial Committee. Also, how to make a motion at the end to adjourn to a physical convention should there be a certain time, date, and place to consider at the end of the session.
I would like this recommendation to be communicated to the Convention Oversight Committee, the entire LNC, and staff.”
I stand by it.
Yours in liberty, Nick
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 1:57 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I also hear of interference with the work of the bylaws committee. This is way beyond the bounds of propriety.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 11:49 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in liberty, Nick
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
It is not a rumour. I would object to you handing the gavel to Mr Merced as you already have chaired this issue and should not have chaired this issue from the beginning. You are not being impartial. You are grossly overstepping your bounds. Your actions disrespect the will of the LNC and is entirely unlike you. I have also received some other troubling calls about pressure put on the CoC that is improper and I’ve encouraged them to inform the LNC of these actions. EVH, I have a right and a duty to bring my concerns to this body. It is not rumours. I have spent hours on the phone this morning demanding proof from people. On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 12:39 PM Joe Bishop-Henchman via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
As Bylaws chair, I plan on forwarding this request, as well as a request for "rules on an electronic convention" and "the possibility of delegates to vote remotely through their delegation chair." Mr. Wiest, an alternate on the Committee, also has a proposal on the last item that we may consider.
My personal gut response, though, is that my understanding of the Bylaws Committee's role is to prepare proposals for delegates at Convention, not motions for the LNC. We did offer to the COC to prepare language for them any options that would need to go to the delegates, and prepared language for the one option (the so-called "rump" convention) we were requested to prepare. I do not believe that the Bylaws Committee, unlike the COC, has the power to sponsor proposals to the LNC or make recommendations to the LNC.
JBH
------------ Joe Bishop-Henchman LNC Member (At-Large) joe.bishop-henchman@lp.org www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
On 2020-05-03 14:11, Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business wrote:
I made the following request of the Chair of the Bylaws Committee on a social media post announcing today's Zoom meeting:
“I'm not sure if I will be able to attend, but what I would like from the committee is a recommendation for how we could hold an online convention hewing as closely as possible to our current bylaws and convention rules over Memorial Day weekend.
Specific things like what form a motion ratifying the proceedings should take, suggestions for how to facilitate deliberation over that motion and a motion to amend the agenda to only consist of elections for LNC, President, Vice President, and Judicial Committee. Also, how to make a motion at the end to adjourn to a physical convention should there be a certain time, date, and place to consider at the end of the session.
I would like this recommendation to be communicated to the Convention Oversight Committee, the entire LNC, and staff.”
I stand by it.
Yours in liberty, Nick
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 1:57 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I also hear of interference with the work of the bylaws committee. This is way beyond the bounds of propriety.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 11:49 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in liberty, Nick
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
-- *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
CAH, Well if you have proof, perhaps you should share it with us. Otherwise it is rumor. I also have a right to voice my concerns. I saw WAY too much of people prior to the May 2nd meeting, trying to influence the outcome. Including false accusations, misinformation, and the like. --- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY) On 2020-05-03 14:47, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
It is not a rumour. I would object to you handing the gavel to Mr Merced as you already have chaired this issue and should not have chaired this issue from the beginning.
You are not being impartial. You are grossly overstepping your bounds.
Your actions disrespect the will of the LNC and is entirely unlike you. I have also received some other troubling calls about pressure put on the CoC that is improper and I’ve encouraged them to inform the LNC of these actions.
EVH, I have a right and a duty to bring my concerns to this body.
It is not rumours. I have spent hours on the phone this morning demanding proof from people.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 12:39 PM Joe Bishop-Henchman via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
As Bylaws chair, I plan on forwarding this request, as well as a request for "rules on an electronic convention" and "the possibility of delegates to vote remotely through their delegation chair." Mr. Wiest, an alternate on the Committee, also has a proposal on the last item that we may consider.
My personal gut response, though, is that my understanding of the Bylaws Committee's role is to prepare proposals for delegates at Convention, not motions for the LNC. We did offer to the COC to prepare language for them any options that would need to go to the delegates, and prepared language for the one option (the so-called "rump" convention) we were requested to prepare. I do not believe that the Bylaws Committee, unlike the COC, has the power to sponsor proposals to the LNC or make recommendations to the LNC.
JBH
------------ Joe Bishop-Henchman LNC Member (At-Large) joe.bishop-henchman@lp.org www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
On 2020-05-03 14:11, Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business wrote:
I made the following request of the Chair of the Bylaws Committee on a social media post announcing today's Zoom meeting:
“I'm not sure if I will be able to attend, but what I would like from the committee is a recommendation for how we could hold an online convention hewing as closely as possible to our current bylaws and convention rules over Memorial Day weekend.
Specific things like what form a motion ratifying the proceedings should take, suggestions for how to facilitate deliberation over that motion and a motion to amend the agenda to only consist of elections for LNC, President, Vice President, and Judicial Committee. Also, how to make a motion at the end to adjourn to a physical convention should there be a certain time, date, and place to consider at the end of the session.
I would like this recommendation to be communicated to the Convention Oversight Committee, the entire LNC, and staff.”
I stand by it.
Yours in liberty, Nick
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 1:57 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I also hear of interference with the work of the bylaws committee. This is way beyond the bounds of propriety.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 11:49 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in liberty, Nick
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
While the presiding officer is to appear impartial during a motion at a meeting, the Chair does not lose his rights as a member. It's not inappropriate for a member to make a request to the Bylaws Committee. --- Tim Hagan Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee On 2020-05-03 11:11, Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business wrote:
I made the following request of the Chair of the Bylaws Committee on a social media post announcing today's Zoom meeting:
“I'm not sure if I will be able to attend, but what I would like from the committee is a recommendation for how we could hold an online convention hewing as closely as possible to our current bylaws and convention rules over Memorial Day weekend.
Specific things like what form a motion ratifying the proceedings should take, suggestions for how to facilitate deliberation over that motion and a motion to amend the agenda to only consist of elections for LNC, President, Vice President, and Judicial Committee. Also, how to make a motion at the end to adjourn to a physical convention should there be a certain time, date, and place to consider at the end of the session.
I would like this recommendation to be communicated to the Convention Oversight Committee, the entire LNC, and staff.”
I stand by it.
Yours in liberty, Nick
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 1:57 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I also hear of interference with the work of the bylaws committee. This is way beyond the bounds of propriety.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 11:49 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in liberty, Nick
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
It’s inappropriate for any request for the bylaws committee to serve the LNC and answer to the LNC. It is inappropriate to use a privileged position to do so. When the chair was chairing the issue and the meeting was adjourned to continue - it was not ended - the chair is still presiding and cannot remove his duty of impartiality. If the meeting was ended and terminated it would be a different matter. It was not. What he is doing is improper. There was also an inappropriate comment to members that he just might not chair the next convention. This is clearly an emotional manipukation tactic. If our chair feels someone else should chair next convention he should have told us, not play games on social media. I know it’s not popular to call out the chair. I learned that when the serious concerns brought by a significant number of LNC members met with stony silence by the rest of the LNC. However my duty is not to be popular. I’m concerned and it is my duty to express them. On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 1:03 PM Tim Hagan via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
While the presiding officer is to appear impartial during a motion at a meeting, the Chair does not lose his rights as a member. It's not inappropriate for a member to make a request to the Bylaws Committee.
--- Tim Hagan Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee
On 2020-05-03 11:11, Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business wrote:
I made the following request of the Chair of the Bylaws Committee on a social media post announcing today's Zoom meeting:
“I'm not sure if I will be able to attend, but what I would like from the committee is a recommendation for how we could hold an online convention hewing as closely as possible to our current bylaws and convention rules over Memorial Day weekend.
Specific things like what form a motion ratifying the proceedings should take, suggestions for how to facilitate deliberation over that motion and a motion to amend the agenda to only consist of elections for LNC, President, Vice President, and Judicial Committee. Also, how to make a motion at the end to adjourn to a physical convention should there be a certain time, date, and place to consider at the end of the session.
I would like this recommendation to be communicated to the Convention Oversight Committee, the entire LNC, and staff.”
I stand by it.
Yours in liberty, Nick
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 1:57 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I also hear of interference with the work of the bylaws committee. This is way beyond the bounds of propriety.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 11:49 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in liberty, Nick
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
-- *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
I agree with Tim. An officer does not lose their voice to advocate for issues just because they become an officer. Caryn Ann, is well known for advocating for all sorts of issues that are important to her while acting as Secretary. I feel the chair has the freedom to do the same. At a meeting there is an expectation of conducting with impartiality. The two settings are distinct. On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 12:03 PM Tim Hagan via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
While the presiding officer is to appear impartial during a motion at a meeting, the Chair does not lose his rights as a member. It's not inappropriate for a member to make a request to the Bylaws Committee.
--- Tim Hagan Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee
On 2020-05-03 11:11, Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business wrote:
I made the following request of the Chair of the Bylaws Committee on a social media post announcing today's Zoom meeting:
“I'm not sure if I will be able to attend, but what I would like from the committee is a recommendation for how we could hold an online convention hewing as closely as possible to our current bylaws and convention rules over Memorial Day weekend.
Specific things like what form a motion ratifying the proceedings should take, suggestions for how to facilitate deliberation over that motion and a motion to amend the agenda to only consist of elections for LNC, President, Vice President, and Judicial Committee. Also, how to make a motion at the end to adjourn to a physical convention should there be a certain time, date, and place to consider at the end of the session.
I would like this recommendation to be communicated to the Convention Oversight Committee, the entire LNC, and staff.”
I stand by it.
Yours in liberty, Nick
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 1:57 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I also hear of interference with the work of the bylaws committee. This is way beyond the bounds of propriety.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 11:49 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in liberty, Nick
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
-- Richard Longstreth Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY) Libertarian National Committee richard.longstreth@lp.org 931.538.9300
Mr Longstreth, I am not chair and this is an adjourned meeting. That makes a very big difference. It is no different than recess. The chair cannot maintain impartiality when in the midst of a meeting he is trying to flip votes. It is a paused meeting not a concluded one. The Chair’s behaviour is improper. EVH I have encouraged the parties with first hand information to bring it to the LNC. I have some phone calls this afternoon to firm up questions I have to see if I feel confident On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 1:20 PM Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I agree with Tim. An officer does not lose their voice to advocate for issues just because they become an officer. Caryn Ann, is well known for advocating for all sorts of issues that are important to her while acting as Secretary. I feel the chair has the freedom to do the same.
At a meeting there is an expectation of conducting with impartiality. The two settings are distinct.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 12:03 PM Tim Hagan via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
While the presiding officer is to appear impartial during a motion at a meeting, the Chair does not lose his rights as a member. It's not inappropriate for a member to make a request to the Bylaws Committee.
--- Tim Hagan Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee
On 2020-05-03 11:11, Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business wrote:
I made the following request of the Chair of the Bylaws Committee on a social media post announcing today's Zoom meeting:
“I'm not sure if I will be able to attend, but what I would like from the committee is a recommendation for how we could hold an online convention hewing as closely as possible to our current bylaws and convention rules over Memorial Day weekend.
Specific things like what form a motion ratifying the proceedings should take, suggestions for how to facilitate deliberation over that motion and a motion to amend the agenda to only consist of elections for LNC, President, Vice President, and Judicial Committee. Also, how to make a motion at the end to adjourn to a physical convention should there be a certain time, date, and place to consider at the end of the session.
I would like this recommendation to be communicated to the Convention Oversight Committee, the entire LNC, and staff.”
I stand by it.
Yours in liberty, Nick
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 1:57 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I also hear of interference with the work of the bylaws committee. This is way beyond the bounds of propriety.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 11:49 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in liberty, Nick
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
-- Richard Longstreth Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY) Libertarian National Committee richard.longstreth@lp.org 931.538.9300
Agree. --- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY) On 2020-05-03 15:20, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business wrote:
I agree with Tim. An officer does not lose their voice to advocate for issues just because they become an officer. Caryn Ann, is well known for advocating for all sorts of issues that are important to her while acting as Secretary. I feel the chair has the freedom to do the same.
At a meeting there is an expectation of conducting with impartiality. The two settings are distinct.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 12:03 PM Tim Hagan via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
While the presiding officer is to appear impartial during a motion at a meeting, the Chair does not lose his rights as a member. It's not inappropriate for a member to make a request to the Bylaws Committee.
--- Tim Hagan Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee
On 2020-05-03 11:11, Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business wrote:
I made the following request of the Chair of the Bylaws Committee on a social media post announcing today's Zoom meeting:
“I'm not sure if I will be able to attend, but what I would like from the committee is a recommendation for how we could hold an online convention hewing as closely as possible to our current bylaws and convention rules over Memorial Day weekend.
Specific things like what form a motion ratifying the proceedings should take, suggestions for how to facilitate deliberation over that motion and a motion to amend the agenda to only consist of elections for LNC, President, Vice President, and Judicial Committee. Also, how to make a motion at the end to adjourn to a physical convention should there be a certain time, date, and place to consider at the end of the session.
I would like this recommendation to be communicated to the Convention Oversight Committee, the entire LNC, and staff.”
I stand by it.
Yours in liberty, Nick
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 1:57 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I also hear of interference with the work of the bylaws committee. This is way beyond the bounds of propriety.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 11:49 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in liberty, Nick
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
There is zero requirement in RONR for anyone other than the chair to be impartial. We are in an adjourned meeting. I keep hearing how others "feel" - I am not making a position on feelings. I am making a position on the rules of our assembly. Rules matter. Feelings don't. Being the chair is an honor and a privilege but it comes with putting aside some rights. What is going on is highly inappropriate. I do not care if I am the only one saying anything. It is my duty to say so. And I always will. This LNC in general is hesitant to call our own, well the last one was too with Arvin. None of it is personal. I do not deviate from my conviction that Nick is the best chair we have had. But he is wrong here, and is disrespecting the decision of this body. He left last meeting unprofessionally angry, went on social media and threatened to take his ball and go home and not chair any convention, and is now working to undermine our decision. You all might be okay with that. I am not. *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 3:37 PM <john.phillips@lp.org> wrote:
I dunno. I think it is well within his prerogative to do so, even if not customary. Just as it is well within yours, despite custom being that it is even more important for the secretary to be impartial in every other organization I have been part of.
If we really want to open it up to that sort of personal/professional criticism though, let me know. I have a long list bubbling in my angry psyche that might be a relief to unload.
I'd rather not, I have been trying very hard to be a better person, but I think we have all seen my restraint is imperfect.
John Phillips Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative Cell 217-412-5973
On May 3, 2020 12:49 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in liberty, Nick
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
I would ask respectfully that the Secretary resume impartiality on matter that are outside of her purview, such as the actions of a member of this party. If there is a specific decorum that is required of the officers of this party I request citation. I request the Secretary outline her view of what is proper and improper in the outside dealings of this party. Further, I request that every member of this committee use their own judgement, and prudence in their dealings with each other, and the public. Of course my requests mean nothing, because I am just an alternate. Such is the way we roll. --- FRANCIS WENDT LNC Region 1 Alternate 406.595.5111 -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] An article that may be of interest to the members of the Libertarian National Committee Date: 2020-05-03 11:49 From: Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> To: lnc-business@hq.lp.org Cc: Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> Reply-To: lnc-business@hq.lp.org I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper. On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in liberty, Nick
Nothing that affects the business of this party is outside my purview. Are you asking for citations on the fact that the chair is required to be impartial while a session is ongoing? We have not adjourned the session sine die. We are still in that session. The chair must maintain impartiality until sine die. Circle the wagons when someone raises concerns of impropriety. That’s what most governing bodies do. On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:10 PM Francis Wendt via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I would ask respectfully that the Secretary resume impartiality on matter that are outside of her purview, such as the actions of a member of this party. If there is a specific decorum that is required of the officers of this party I request citation. I request the Secretary outline her view of what is proper and improper in the outside dealings of this party. Further, I request that every member of this committee use their own judgement, and prudence in their dealings with each other, and the public.
Of course my requests mean nothing, because I am just an alternate. Such is the way we roll.
--- FRANCIS WENDT LNC Region 1 Alternate 406.595.5111
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] An article that may be of interest to the members of the Libertarian National Committee Date: 2020-05-03 11:49 From: Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> To: lnc-business@hq.lp.org Cc: Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> Reply-To: lnc-business@hq.lp.org
I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in liberty, Nick
-- *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
My point, Madam Secretary, is that you yourself utilized the same opportunity that myself and the Chair utilized as a member of this party to address the Bylaws committee during public comments. It is a right of members that does not go away without specific citation, as the bylaws committee is a committee of the convention, and not that of the LNC. In other words, the LNC Chair has no jurisdiction, nor undue influence over the Bylaws committee, and the Bylaws committee, to their credit, operated outside of that influence. To further answer your question: yes, I do request the citation that you are referencing in regards to impartiality of the Chair as I would like to review your claims for accuracy. Further, I respectfully request the citation to RONR that you gave in the meeting yesterday to suppress the customary vote of the chair of the LNC. If we have been doing it wrong, yes, I want to know, as this will be valuable information to inform the Bylaws for future amendments. Parliamentary authority should not be wielded as a bludgeon, we are all here to serve the members. Let's not lose sight of that goal. --- FRANCIS WENDT LNC Region 1 Alternate 406.595.5111 On 2020-05-03 19:39, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
Nothing that affects the business of this party is outside my purview.
Are you asking for citations on the fact that the chair is required to be impartial while a session is ongoing?
We have not adjourned the session sine die. We are still in that session. The chair must maintain impartiality until sine die.
Circle the wagons when someone raises concerns of impropriety. That's what most governing bodies do.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:10 PM Francis Wendt via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I would ask respectfully that the Secretary resume impartiality on matter that are outside of her purview, such as the actions of a member of this party. If there is a specific decorum that is required of the officers of this party I request citation. I request the Secretary outline her view of what is proper and improper in the outside dealings of this party. Further, I request that every member of this committee use their own judgement, and prudence in their dealings with each other, and the public.
Of course my requests mean nothing, because I am just an alternate. Such is the way we roll.
--- FRANCIS WENDT LNC Region 1 Alternate 406.595.5111
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] An article that may be of interest to the members of the Libertarian National Committee Date: 2020-05-03 11:49 From: Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> To: lnc-business@hq.lp.org Cc: Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> Reply-To: lnc-business@hq.lp.org
I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in liberty, Nick
--
IN LIBERTY,
__ _ PERSONAL NOTE: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. _
I cited it in the meeting. I’m with a houseguest. When I’m free I’ll do so again. I began to study thus when he voted in his financial self interest before your time. I spoke out then too. The outside us watching and judging us just as shady as any other political organization. On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 8:00 PM Francis Wendt <francis.wendt@lp.org> wrote:
My point, Madam Secretary, is that you yourself utilized the same opportunity that myself and the Chair utilized as a member of this party to address the Bylaws committee during public comments. It is a right of members that does not go away without specific citation, as the bylaws committee is a committee of the convention, and not that of the LNC. In other words, the LNC Chair has no jurisdiction, nor undue influence over the Bylaws committee, and the Bylaws committee, to their credit, operated outside of that influence.
To further answer your question: yes, I do request the citation that you are referencing in regards to impartiality of the Chair as I would like to review your claims for accuracy.
Further, I respectfully request the citation to RONR that you gave in the meeting yesterday to suppress the customary vote of the chair of the LNC. If we have been doing it wrong, yes, I want to know, as this will be valuable information to inform the Bylaws for future amendments.
Parliamentary authority should not be wielded as a bludgeon, we are all here to serve the members. Let's not lose sight of that goal. --- *Francis Wendt*
LNC Region 1 Alternate 406.595.5111
On 2020-05-03 19:39, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
Nothing that affects the business of this party is outside my purview.
Are you asking for citations on the fact that the chair is required to be impartial while a session is ongoing?
We have not adjourned the session sine die. We are still in that session. The chair must maintain impartiality until sine die.
Circle the wagons when someone raises concerns of impropriety. That's what most governing bodies do.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:10 PM Francis Wendt via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I would ask respectfully that the Secretary resume impartiality on matter that are outside of her purview, such as the actions of a member of this party. If there is a specific decorum that is required of the officers of this party I request citation. I request the Secretary outline her view of what is proper and improper in the outside dealings of this party. Further, I request that every member of this committee use their own judgement, and prudence in their dealings with each other, and the public.
Of course my requests mean nothing, because I am just an alternate. Such is the way we roll.
--- FRANCIS WENDT LNC Region 1 Alternate 406.595.5111
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] An article that may be of interest to the members of the Libertarian National Committee Date: 2020-05-03 11:49 From: Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> To: lnc-business@hq.lp.org Cc: Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> Reply-To: lnc-business@hq.lp.org
I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in liberty, Nick
--
*In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
Thank you Ms. Adams. I do hope that this body finds my RONR citations interesting reads as well and stop attacking the messenger and dealing with the message. *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 12:26 AM Erin Adams via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Thank you Mr Chair. That was an interesting read. I found this article to be interesting as well
https://www.nonprofitissues.com/to-the-point/what%E2%80%99s-risk-not-followi...
On May 4, 2020 12:48 AM, "justin.odonnell--- via Lnc-business" < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I apologize, my previous message was responded to the wrong thread. The volume of emails lately makes for a messy inbox.
Justin O'Donnell LNC Region 8 Representative
On May 4, 2020 1:46 AM, justin.odonnell@lp.org wrote:
Quick parliamentary convention. Since Nick passed the gavel to Alex, and Mr Merced was the presiding officer at the time a motion was made to adjourn the meeting to a specific date and time, are we not technically in that same meeting to be reconvened at the set date and time, and is not Mr Merced still technically the presiding officer since the gavel was never returned to Mr Sarwark prior to adjournment?
If this is the case, would not Mr. Sarwark be free to engage in debate as a member?
Justin O'Donnell LNC Region 8 Representative
On May 3, 2020 10:23 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I cited it in the meeting. I’m with a houseguest. When I’m free I’ll do so again.
I began to study thus when he voted in his financial self interest before your time. I spoke out then too.
The outside us watching and judging us just as shady as any other political organization.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 8:00 PM Francis Wendt <francis.wendt@lp.org> wrote:
My point, Madam Secretary, is that you yourself utilized the same opportunity that myself and the Chair utilized as a member of this party to address the Bylaws committee during public comments. It is a right of members that does not go away without specific citation, as the bylaws committee is a committee of the convention, and not that of the LNC. In other words, the LNC Chair has no jurisdiction, nor undue influence over the Bylaws committee, and the Bylaws committee, to their credit, operated outside of that influence.
To further answer your question: yes, I do request the citation that you are referencing in regards to impartiality of the Chair as I would like to review your claims for accuracy.
Further, I respectfully request the citation to RONR that you gave in the meeting yesterday to suppress the customary vote of the chair of the LNC. If we have been doing it wrong, yes, I want to know, as this will be valuable information to inform the Bylaws for future amendments.
Parliamentary authority should not be wielded as a bludgeon, we are all here to serve the members. Let's not lose sight of that goal. --- *Francis Wendt*
LNC Region 1 Alternate 406.595.5111
On 2020-05-03 19:39, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
Nothing that affects the business of this party is outside my purview.
Are you asking for citations on the fact that the chair is required to be impartial while a session is ongoing?
We have not adjourned the session sine die. We are still in that session. The chair must maintain impartiality until sine die.
Circle the wagons when someone raises concerns of impropriety. That's what most governing bodies do.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:10 PM Francis Wendt via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I would ask respectfully that the Secretary resume impartiality on matter that are outside of her purview, such as the actions of a member of this party. If there is a specific decorum that is required of the officers of this party I request citation. I request the Secretary outline her view of what is proper and improper in the outside dealings of this party. Further, I request that every member of this committee use their own judgement, and prudence in their dealings with each other, and the public.
Of course my requests mean nothing, because I am just an alternate. Such is the way we roll.
--- FRANCIS WENDT LNC Region 1 Alternate 406.595.5111
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] An article that may be of interest to the members of the Libertarian National Committee Date: 2020-05-03 11:49 From: Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> To: lnc-business@hq.lp.org Cc: Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> Reply-To: lnc-business@hq.lp.org
I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in liberty, Nick
--
*In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
Since this is now the complaint thread, more disturbing developments have happened. Our chair is now on social media attacking the convention committee, particularly the convention committee chair. Some of the attacks go beyond typical in-party to allegations of malfeasance. If the chair has charges against any members of the CoC bring them in a dignified and proper manner and give them their trial. Don't insinuate things on social media. I cannot believe I am even having to say this. Daniel Hayes is being thrown under the bus to serve our Chair's personal agenda. Any LNC member who supports that, after all the work he has done for our conventions, should be ashamed of themselves. This is beyond ridiculous. I guess a sacrificial lamb must be had in order for our chair to win. It was clear at the end of last meeting that the vote was an incredible strike to ego, and I will not be silent as Mr. Hayes is being made the scapegoat. If our chair mistakenly trusted him or the CoC that is on the chair. The buck stops with him. This is beyond the realm of ridiculous at this point. If anyone wants to see the the thread where this discussion started, email me privately. It is on the thread of a private member, and I do not wish to expose their personal wall here on a public list. That member did not ask for that. Who else here is willing to throw Daniel Hayes under the bus? I am not. *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 12:37 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
Thank you Ms. Adams. I do hope that this body finds my RONR citations interesting reads as well and stop attacking the messenger and dealing with the message.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 12:26 AM Erin Adams via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Thank you Mr Chair. That was an interesting read. I found this article to be interesting as well
https://www.nonprofitissues.com/to-the-point/what%E2%80%99s-risk-not-followi...
On May 4, 2020 12:48 AM, "justin.odonnell--- via Lnc-business" < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I apologize, my previous message was responded to the wrong thread. The volume of emails lately makes for a messy inbox.
Justin O'Donnell LNC Region 8 Representative
On May 4, 2020 1:46 AM, justin.odonnell@lp.org wrote:
Quick parliamentary convention. Since Nick passed the gavel to Alex, and Mr Merced was the presiding officer at the time a motion was made to adjourn the meeting to a specific date and time, are we not technically in that same meeting to be reconvened at the set date and time, and is not Mr Merced still technically the presiding officer since the gavel was never returned to Mr Sarwark prior to adjournment?
If this is the case, would not Mr. Sarwark be free to engage in debate as a member?
Justin O'Donnell LNC Region 8 Representative
On May 3, 2020 10:23 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I cited it in the meeting. I’m with a houseguest. When I’m free I’ll do so again.
I began to study thus when he voted in his financial self interest before your time. I spoke out then too.
The outside us watching and judging us just as shady as any other political organization.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 8:00 PM Francis Wendt <francis.wendt@lp.org> wrote:
My point, Madam Secretary, is that you yourself utilized the same opportunity that myself and the Chair utilized as a member of this party to address the Bylaws committee during public comments. It is a right of members that does not go away without specific citation, as the bylaws committee is a committee of the convention, and not that of the LNC. In other words, the LNC Chair has no jurisdiction, nor undue influence over the Bylaws committee, and the Bylaws committee, to their credit, operated outside of that influence.
To further answer your question: yes, I do request the citation that you are referencing in regards to impartiality of the Chair as I would like to review your claims for accuracy.
Further, I respectfully request the citation to RONR that you gave in the meeting yesterday to suppress the customary vote of the chair of the LNC. If we have been doing it wrong, yes, I want to know, as this will be valuable information to inform the Bylaws for future amendments.
Parliamentary authority should not be wielded as a bludgeon, we are all here to serve the members. Let's not lose sight of that goal. --- *Francis Wendt*
LNC Region 1 Alternate 406.595.5111
On 2020-05-03 19:39, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
Nothing that affects the business of this party is outside my purview.
Are you asking for citations on the fact that the chair is required to be impartial while a session is ongoing?
We have not adjourned the session sine die. We are still in that session. The chair must maintain impartiality until sine die.
Circle the wagons when someone raises concerns of impropriety. That's what most governing bodies do.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:10 PM Francis Wendt via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I would ask respectfully that the Secretary resume impartiality on matter that are outside of her purview, such as the actions of a member of this party. If there is a specific decorum that is required of the officers of this party I request citation. I request the Secretary outline her view of what is proper and improper in the outside dealings of this party. Further, I request that every member of this committee use their own judgement, and prudence in their dealings with each other, and the public.
Of course my requests mean nothing, because I am just an alternate. Such is the way we roll.
--- FRANCIS WENDT LNC Region 1 Alternate 406.595.5111
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] An article that may be of interest to the members of the Libertarian National Committee Date: 2020-05-03 11:49 From: Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> To: lnc-business@hq.lp.org Cc: Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> Reply-To: lnc-business@hq.lp.org
I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in liberty, Nick
--
*In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
I suggest that you also go through proper channels if you have a complaint with a fellow LNC member. Instead, you've colorfully stated an opinion, which is designed to influence others to your same thinking. --- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY) On 2020-05-04 05:53, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
Since this is now the complaint thread, more disturbing developments have happened. Our chair is now on social media attacking the convention committee, particularly the convention committee chair. Some of the attacks go beyond typical in-party to allegations of malfeasance. If the chair has charges against any members of the CoC bring them in a dignified and proper manner and give them their trial. Don't insinuate things on social media. I cannot believe I am even having to say this.
Daniel Hayes is being thrown under the bus to serve our Chair's personal agenda. Any LNC member who supports that, after all the work he has done for our conventions, should be ashamed of themselves. This is beyond ridiculous. I guess a sacrificial lamb must be had in order for our chair to win. It was clear at the end of last meeting that the vote was an incredible strike to ego, and I will not be silent as Mr. Hayes is being made the scapegoat. If our chair mistakenly trusted him or the CoC that is on the chair. The buck stops with him. This is beyond the realm of ridiculous at this point. If anyone wants to see the the thread where this discussion started, email me privately. It is on the thread of a private member, and I do not wish to expose their personal wall here on a public list. That member did not ask for that.
Who else here is willing to throw Daniel Hayes under the bus? I am not.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 12:37 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
Thank you Ms. Adams. I do hope that this body finds my RONR citations interesting reads as well and stop attacking the messenger and dealing with the message.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 12:26 AM Erin Adams via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Thank you Mr Chair. That was an interesting read. I found this article to be interesting as well
https://www.nonprofitissues.com/to-the-point/what%E2%80%99s-risk-not-followi...
On May 4, 2020 12:48 AM, "justin.odonnell--- via Lnc-business" < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I apologize, my previous message was responded to the wrong thread. The volume of emails lately makes for a messy inbox.
Justin O'Donnell LNC Region 8 Representative
On May 4, 2020 1:46 AM, justin.odonnell@lp.org wrote:
Quick parliamentary convention. Since Nick passed the gavel to Alex, and Mr Merced was the presiding officer at the time a motion was made to adjourn the meeting to a specific date and time, are we not technically in that same meeting to be reconvened at the set date and time, and is not Mr Merced still technically the presiding officer since the gavel was never returned to Mr Sarwark prior to adjournment?
If this is the case, would not Mr. Sarwark be free to engage in debate as a member?
Justin O'Donnell LNC Region 8 Representative
On May 3, 2020 10:23 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I cited it in the meeting. I’m with a houseguest. When I’m free I’ll do so again.
I began to study thus when he voted in his financial self interest before your time. I spoke out then too.
The outside us watching and judging us just as shady as any other political organization.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 8:00 PM Francis Wendt <francis.wendt@lp.org> wrote:
My point, Madam Secretary, is that you yourself utilized the same opportunity that myself and the Chair utilized as a member of this party to address the Bylaws committee during public comments. It is a right of members that does not go away without specific citation, as the bylaws committee is a committee of the convention, and not that of the LNC. In other words, the LNC Chair has no jurisdiction, nor undue influence over the Bylaws committee, and the Bylaws committee, to their credit, operated outside of that influence.
To further answer your question: yes, I do request the citation that you are referencing in regards to impartiality of the Chair as I would like to review your claims for accuracy.
Further, I respectfully request the citation to RONR that you gave in the meeting yesterday to suppress the customary vote of the chair of the LNC. If we have been doing it wrong, yes, I want to know, as this will be valuable information to inform the Bylaws for future amendments.
Parliamentary authority should not be wielded as a bludgeon, we are all here to serve the members. Let's not lose sight of that goal. --- *Francis Wendt*
LNC Region 1 Alternate 406.595.5111
On 2020-05-03 19:39, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
Nothing that affects the business of this party is outside my purview.
Are you asking for citations on the fact that the chair is required to be impartial while a session is ongoing?
We have not adjourned the session sine die. We are still in that session. The chair must maintain impartiality until sine die.
Circle the wagons when someone raises concerns of impropriety. That's what most governing bodies do.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:10 PM Francis Wendt via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I would ask respectfully that the Secretary resume impartiality on matter that are outside of her purview, such as the actions of a member of this party. If there is a specific decorum that is required of the officers of this party I request citation. I request the Secretary outline her view of what is proper and improper in the outside dealings of this party. Further, I request that every member of this committee use their own judgement, and prudence in their dealings with each other, and the public.
Of course my requests mean nothing, because I am just an alternate. Such is the way we roll.
--- FRANCIS WENDT LNC Region 1 Alternate 406.595.5111
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] An article that may be of interest to the members of the Libertarian National Committee Date: 2020-05-03 11:49 From: Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> To: lnc-business@hq.lp.org Cc: Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> Reply-To: lnc-business@hq.lp.org
I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in liberty, Nick
--
*In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
Bringing it to the LNC is the proper channels. If you would like the link I am referring to, I can send it to you privately. Please let me know. *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 6:06 AM Elizabeth Van Horn <elizabeth.vanhorn@lp.org> wrote:
I suggest that you also go through proper channels if you have a complaint with a fellow LNC member.
Instead, you've colorfully stated an opinion, which is designed to influence others to your same thinking.
--- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY)
On 2020-05-04 05:53, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
Since this is now the complaint thread, more disturbing developments have happened. Our chair is now on social media attacking the convention committee, particularly the convention committee chair. Some of the attacks go beyond typical in-party to allegations of malfeasance. If the chair has charges against any members of the CoC bring them in a dignified and proper manner and give them their trial. Don't insinuate things on social media. I cannot believe I am even having to say this.
Daniel Hayes is being thrown under the bus to serve our Chair's personal agenda. Any LNC member who supports that, after all the work he has done for our conventions, should be ashamed of themselves. This is beyond ridiculous. I guess a sacrificial lamb must be had in order for our chair to win. It was clear at the end of last meeting that the vote was an incredible strike to ego, and I will not be silent as Mr. Hayes is being made the scapegoat. If our chair mistakenly trusted him or the CoC that is on the chair. The buck stops with him. This is beyond the realm of ridiculous at this point. If anyone wants to see the the thread where this discussion started, email me privately. It is on the thread of a private member, and I do not wish to expose their personal wall here on a public list. That member did not ask for that.
Who else here is willing to throw Daniel Hayes under the bus? I am not.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 12:37 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
Thank you Ms. Adams. I do hope that this body finds my RONR citations interesting reads as well and stop attacking the messenger and dealing with the message.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 12:26 AM Erin Adams via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Thank you Mr Chair. That was an interesting read. I found this article to be interesting as well
https://www.nonprofitissues.com/to-the-point/what%E2%80%99s-risk-not-followi...
On May 4, 2020 12:48 AM, "justin.odonnell--- via Lnc-business" < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I apologize, my previous message was responded to the wrong thread. The volume of emails lately makes for a messy inbox.
Justin O'Donnell LNC Region 8 Representative
On May 4, 2020 1:46 AM, justin.odonnell@lp.org wrote:
Quick parliamentary convention. Since Nick passed the gavel to Alex, and Mr Merced was the presiding officer at the time a motion was made to adjourn the meeting to a specific date and time, are we not technically in that same meeting to be reconvened at the set date and time, and is not Mr Merced still technically the presiding officer since the gavel was never returned to Mr Sarwark prior to adjournment?
If this is the case, would not Mr. Sarwark be free to engage in debate as a member?
Justin O'Donnell LNC Region 8 Representative
On May 3, 2020 10:23 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I cited it in the meeting. I’m with a houseguest. When I’m free I’ll do so again.
I began to study thus when he voted in his financial self interest before your time. I spoke out then too.
The outside us watching and judging us just as shady as any other political organization.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 8:00 PM Francis Wendt <francis.wendt@lp.org> wrote:
My point, Madam Secretary, is that you yourself utilized the same opportunity that myself and the Chair utilized as a member of this party to address the Bylaws committee during public comments. It is a right of members that does not go away without specific citation, as the
bylaws
committee is a committee of the convention, and not that of the LNC. In other words, the LNC Chair has no jurisdiction, nor undue influence over the Bylaws committee, and the Bylaws committee, to their credit, operated outside of that influence.
To further answer your question: yes, I do request the citation that you are referencing in regards to impartiality of the Chair as I would like to review your claims for accuracy.
Further, I respectfully request the citation to RONR that you gave in the meeting yesterday to suppress the customary vote of the chair of the LNC. If we have been doing it wrong, yes, I want to know, as this will be valuable information to inform the Bylaws for future amendments.
Parliamentary authority should not be wielded as a bludgeon, we are all here to serve the members. Let's not lose sight of that goal. --- *Francis Wendt*
LNC Region 1 Alternate 406.595.5111
On 2020-05-03 19:39, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
Nothing that affects the business of this party is outside my purview.
Are you asking for citations on the fact that the chair is required to be impartial while a session is ongoing?
We have not adjourned the session sine die. We are still in that session. The chair must maintain impartiality until sine die.
Circle the wagons when someone raises concerns of impropriety. That's what most governing bodies do.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:10 PM Francis Wendt via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I would ask respectfully that the Secretary resume impartiality on matter that are outside of her purview, such as the actions of a member of this party. If there is a specific decorum that is required of the officers of this party I request citation. I request the Secretary outline her view of what is proper and improper in the outside dealings of this party. Further, I request that every member of this committee use their own judgement, and prudence in their dealings with each other, and the public.
Of course my requests mean nothing, because I am just an alternate. Such is the way we roll.
--- FRANCIS WENDT LNC Region 1 Alternate 406.595.5111
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] An article that may be of interest to the members of the Libertarian National Committee Date: 2020-05-03 11:49 From: Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> To: lnc-business@hq.lp.org Cc: Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> Reply-To: lnc-business@hq.lp.org
I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
> Dear All, > > This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned > meeting > this coming Saturday. > > https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug > > Yours in liberty, > Nick >
--
*In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
The article from our Chair entertains the question of making financial decisions based off of past experience without consideration of nee circumstances, ala, the pandemic. Now that an in-person convention seems more and more likely, and plans are being drawn to select a location and date, I want to shed light on some experience as a business owner who has been able to remain open and profitable while enacting measures to protect both employees and customers. As stewards of the party’s finances, our number one priority is to ensure that a convention, when planned, will achieve our financial goals and that our projected numbers are based on solid data and inferences. Out of the selection provided by the CoC of potential spaces, I was pleased with the numbers provided by the hotels. Currently, convention centers and hotels around the country are desperate for business, and as such, we can take advantage of the opportunity to slash costs significantly with whatever venue we sign up with, as well maintain a high degree of leverage during negotiations to come up with a favorable contract. In the food service industry, we have enacted many procedures to assure customer and employee safety, such as providing masks to employees, reiterating stringent hand washing, sanitizing high touch areas, etc. My suggestion to both the LNC and CoC would be to make similar considerations, such as sanitizing microphones and lecterns, keeping doors open or having someone open doors for delegates, providing hand sanitizer and surgical masks, etc, all of which can be done for relatively little cost over the course of convention. The world is adapting to COVID19, and we as a body can too, no matter what route we go, whether its in person, a hybrid, or virtual, we can make reasonable and effective decisions to mitigate exposure to the pandemic, while still holding our business process. At the end of the day we are libertarians, we make cost-benefit decisions on what is an appropriate level of risk for whatever we do, whether its physical risk, legal risk, or political risk. The proceedings on convention have been a blend of all three. The most important thing to remember is that a concrete, well thought out plan, with much deliberation, will always be most valuable. We cannot allow divisiveness to allow a plan to elude us in turn for an endless, potentially unproductive, discussion. Action works 100% of the time, all the time. Sincerely, Steven NekhailaRegion 2 Representative On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 8:30 AM -0400, "Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business" <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: Bringing it to the LNC is the proper channels. If you would like the link I am referring to, I can send it to you privately. Please let me know. *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 6:06 AM Elizabeth Van Horn wrote:
I suggest that you also go through proper channels if you have a complaint with a fellow LNC member.
Instead, you've colorfully stated an opinion, which is designed to influence others to your same thinking.
--- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY)
On 2020-05-04 05:53, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
Since this is now the complaint thread, more disturbing developments have happened. Our chair is now on social media attacking the convention committee, particularly the convention committee chair. Some of the attacks go beyond typical in-party to allegations of malfeasance. If the chair has charges against any members of the CoC bring them in a dignified and proper manner and give them their trial. Don't insinuate things on social media. I cannot believe I am even having to say this.
Daniel Hayes is being thrown under the bus to serve our Chair's personal agenda. Any LNC member who supports that, after all the work he has done for our conventions, should be ashamed of themselves. This is beyond ridiculous. I guess a sacrificial lamb must be had in order for our chair to win. It was clear at the end of last meeting that the vote was an incredible strike to ego, and I will not be silent as Mr. Hayes is being made the scapegoat. If our chair mistakenly trusted him or the CoC that is on the chair. The buck stops with him. This is beyond the realm of ridiculous at this point. If anyone wants to see the the thread where this discussion started, email me privately. It is on the thread of a private member, and I do not wish to expose their personal wall here on a public list. That member did not ask for that.
Who else here is willing to throw Daniel Hayes under the bus? I am not.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 12:37 AM Caryn Ann Harlos
wrote:
Thank you Ms. Adams. I do hope that this body finds my RONR citations interesting reads as well and stop attacking the messenger and dealing with the message.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 12:26 AM Erin Adams via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Thank you Mr Chair. That was an interesting read. I found this article to be interesting as well
https://www.nonprofitissues.com/to-the-point/what%E2%80%99s-risk-not-followi...
On May 4, 2020 12:48 AM, "justin.odonnell--- via Lnc-business" < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I apologize, my previous message was responded to the wrong thread. The volume of emails lately makes for a messy inbox.
Justin O'Donnell LNC Region 8 Representative
On May 4, 2020 1:46 AM, justin.odonnell@lp.org wrote:
Quick parliamentary convention. Since Nick passed the gavel to Alex, and Mr Merced was the presiding officer at the time a motion was made to adjourn the meeting to a specific date and time, are we not technically in that same meeting to be reconvened at the set date and time, and is not Mr Merced still technically the presiding officer since the gavel was never returned to Mr Sarwark prior to adjournment?
If this is the case, would not Mr. Sarwark be free to engage in debate as a member?
Justin O'Donnell LNC Region 8 Representative
On May 3, 2020 10:23 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I cited it in the meeting. I’m with a houseguest. When I’m free I’ll do so again.
I began to study thus when he voted in his financial self interest before your time. I spoke out then too.
The outside us watching and judging us just as shady as any other political organization.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 8:00 PM Francis Wendt wrote:
My point, Madam Secretary, is that you yourself utilized the same opportunity that myself and the Chair utilized as a member of this party to address the Bylaws committee during public comments. It is a right of members that does not go away without specific citation, as the
bylaws
committee is a committee of the convention, and not that of the LNC. In other words, the LNC Chair has no jurisdiction, nor undue influence over the Bylaws committee, and the Bylaws committee, to their credit, operated outside of that influence.
To further answer your question: yes, I do request the citation that you are referencing in regards to impartiality of the Chair as I would like to review your claims for accuracy.
Further, I respectfully request the citation to RONR that you gave in the meeting yesterday to suppress the customary vote of the chair of the LNC. If we have been doing it wrong, yes, I want to know, as this will be valuable information to inform the Bylaws for future amendments.
Parliamentary authority should not be wielded as a bludgeon, we are all here to serve the members. Let's not lose sight of that goal. --- *Francis Wendt*
LNC Region 1 Alternate 406.595.5111
On 2020-05-03 19:39, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
Nothing that affects the business of this party is outside my purview.
Are you asking for citations on the fact that the chair is required to be impartial while a session is ongoing?
We have not adjourned the session sine die. We are still in that session. The chair must maintain impartiality until sine die.
Circle the wagons when someone raises concerns of impropriety. That's what most governing bodies do.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:10 PM Francis Wendt via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I would ask respectfully that the Secretary resume impartiality on matter that are outside of her purview, such as the actions of a member of this party. If there is a specific decorum that is required of the officers of this party I request citation. I request the Secretary outline her view of what is proper and improper in the outside dealings of this party. Further, I request that every member of this committee use their own judgement, and prudence in their dealings with each other, and the public.
Of course my requests mean nothing, because I am just an alternate. Such is the way we roll.
--- FRANCIS WENDT LNC Region 1 Alternate 406.595.5111
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] An article that may be of interest to the members of the Libertarian National Committee Date: 2020-05-03 11:49 From: Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business To: lnc-business@hq.lp.org Cc: Caryn Ann Harlos Reply-To: lnc-business@hq.lp.org
I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
> Dear All, > > This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned > meeting > this coming Saturday. > > https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug > > Yours in liberty, > Nick >
--
*In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
Bringing it to the LNC, with screenshots, and asking us what we thought would've been a better method. (My opinion) Instead of setting the stage for your own interpretation. (No need for a link. I haven't seen the post in question, but given the nature of social media, I'm sure I will.) --- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY) On 2020-05-04 08:30, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
Bringing it to the LNC is the proper channels. If you would like the link I am referring to, I can send it to you privately. Please let me know.
IN LIBERTY,
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 6:06 AM Elizabeth Van Horn <elizabeth.vanhorn@lp.org> wrote:
I suggest that you also go through proper channels if you have a complaint with a fellow LNC member.
Instead, you've colorfully stated an opinion, which is designed to influence others to your same thinking.
--- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY)
On 2020-05-04 05:53, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
Since this is now the complaint thread, more disturbing developments have happened. Our chair is now on social media attacking the convention committee, particularly the convention committee chair. Some of the attacks go beyond typical in-party to allegations of malfeasance. If the chair has charges against any members of the CoC bring them in a dignified and proper manner and give them their trial. Don't insinuate things on social media. I cannot believe I am even having to say this.
Daniel Hayes is being thrown under the bus to serve our Chair's personal agenda. Any LNC member who supports that, after all the work he has done for our conventions, should be ashamed of themselves. This is beyond ridiculous. I guess a sacrificial lamb must be had in order for our chair to win. It was clear at the end of last meeting that the vote was an incredible strike to ego, and I will not be silent as Mr. Hayes is being made the scapegoat. If our chair mistakenly trusted him or the CoC that is on the chair. The buck stops with him. This is beyond the realm of ridiculous at this point. If anyone wants to see the the thread where this discussion started, email me privately. It is on the thread of a private member, and I do not wish to expose their personal wall here on a public list. That member did not ask for that.
Who else here is willing to throw Daniel Hayes under the bus? I am not.
I appreciate your feedback. *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 8:20 AM Elizabeth Van Horn <elizabeth.vanhorn@lp.org> wrote:
Bringing it to the LNC, with screenshots, and asking us what we thought would've been a better method. (My opinion)
Instead of setting the stage for your own interpretation.
(No need for a link. I haven't seen the post in question, but given the nature of social media, I'm sure I will.) --- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY)
On 2020-05-04 08:30, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
Bringing it to the LNC is the proper channels. If you would like the link I am referring to, I can send it to you privately. Please let me know.
*In Liberty,*
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 6:06 AM Elizabeth Van Horn < elizabeth.vanhorn@lp.org> wrote:
I suggest that you also go through proper channels if you have a complaint with a fellow LNC member.
Instead, you've colorfully stated an opinion, which is designed to influence others to your same thinking.
--- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY)
On 2020-05-04 05:53, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
Since this is now the complaint thread, more disturbing developments have happened. Our chair is now on social media attacking the convention committee, particularly the convention committee chair. Some of the attacks go beyond typical in-party to allegations of malfeasance. If the chair has charges against any members of the CoC bring them in a dignified and proper manner and give them their trial. Don't insinuate things on social media. I cannot believe I am even having to say this.
Daniel Hayes is being thrown under the bus to serve our Chair's personal agenda. Any LNC member who supports that, after all the work he has done for our conventions, should be ashamed of themselves. This is beyond ridiculous. I guess a sacrificial lamb must be had in order for our chair to win. It was clear at the end of last meeting that the vote was an incredible strike to ego, and I will not be silent as Mr. Hayes is being made the scapegoat. If our chair mistakenly trusted him or the CoC that is on the chair. The buck stops with him. This is beyond the realm of ridiculous at this point. If anyone wants to see the the thread where this discussion started, email me privately. It is on the thread of a private member, and I do not wish to expose their personal wall here on a public list. That member did not ask for that.
Who else here is willing to throw Daniel Hayes under the bus? I am not.
In response to Mr. Wendt. This is addressed on a series of pages. Page 53 beginning on line 15 *Chair's Vote as Part of Announcement, Where it Affects the Vote* If the presiding officer is a member of assembly or voting body, he has the same voting *right* as any other member. Except in a small board or committee [my note - defined in RONR as boards of less than 12 or so members so we do not qualify] however -- unless that vote is secret (that is unless it is by ballot) *the chair protects his impartial position by exercising his voting right ONLY when his vote would affect the outcome, in which he CAN either vote and thereby change the result, or he can abstain.* [bold, cap, and underline emphasis mine] We continue to page 394, lines 24-29 If the presiding officer is a member of the society, he has -- as an individual -- the same * right* in debate as any other member, *but the impartiality required of the chair in an assembly **PRECLUDES* *his exercising those rights while he is presiding. * [bold, cap, and underline emphasis mine] Continue to page 405, lines 20-24 If the presiding officer is a member of the assembly, he can vote as any other member *WHEN the vote is by ballot. In all other cases the presiding officer, if a member of the assembly, CAN (but is not obligated to) whenever his vote will affect the result -- *that is, he can vote to there break or cause a tie... Continue to page 421, lines 421-423 dealing with the Secretary The roll is called in alphabetical order except that the presiding's officer's name is called last, *and only when his vote will affect the results. * [emphasis mine] When I read that last section in my studies, I realized my taking of the roll was wrong. I informed the LNC of this fact via email on February 11. I also informed the Chair at the very next executive committee meeting why I would no longer be calling his name in the roll. So this position of mine was revealed to the LNC MONTHS ago, not just tonight. Apparently people did not think that message important enough to argue about then. http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc-business/2020/056258.html The restrictions are imposed on a parliamentarian who is the acting parliamentarian while a member of the society (page 457, lines 8-12) except the parliamentarian's vote is limited to only ballots, not to affect results. Though Mr. O'Donnell said he asked in the wrong thread I will answer here as it is relevant. We are all familiar with Mr. Sarwark passing the gavel *AT THE BEGINNING OF A QUESTION HE KNOWS HE WANTS TO PARTICIPATE IN* at the very beginning of the question, and not resuming it until the question is over. That is the ONLY way to vacate the chair in order to debate or vote unless an unexpected issue comes up in which the chair needs to temporarily do so. In our meeting, the chair passed the gavel for short periods of time so he could leave the meeting to attend to personal business. He did not do so in order to be partial. He knew at the beginning of the meeting he intended on debating - he told many members this prior to the meeting - and yet he assumed the chair, waiving his debate and voting rights. He cannot play hokey pokey with the chair position. And now as long as this question is being considered or reconsidered, he has waived his voting rights. In between sessions, he may lobby and do as he will as the issues are all decided. but we *ARE IN THE SAME SESSION RIGHT NOW. *We did not adjourn sine die. We fixed the time to which to adjourn, thereby continuing the session which is why I am objecting to his current actions. If we adjourned sine die, I would not be objecting though I think it would still be tacky AF and disrespectful to the body. Ms. Mattson let me know that she may have another RONR page for me to consider. Mr. Brown asked me to consider page 53 which he thought made the voting absence optional. It does not. It says ONLY. I reserve the right to alter my opinion based on further information brought by Ms. Mattson. I now want to object to the improper comments made to me here. It is completely out of bounds to suggest that ANY member of this body lacks the purview to object to the conduct of our presiding officer. And it is an ad hominem to say "well you argue too" as Mr. Phillips did. I am not the chair. I am allowed to do so and I do not appreciate the insinuation that since I do it, I cannot complain when someone in a higher position does it. This is the typical old party circle the wagons approach I have seen each time I dare to question the chair, for the past two terms, starting with the contract with the eternal secrecy provision. It is not becoming of the Libertarian Party to act that way. We MUST be able to examine those in ultimate control. *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 11:48 PM <justin.odonnell@lp.org> wrote:
I apologize, my previous message was responded to the wrong thread. The volume of emails lately makes for a messy inbox.
Justin O'Donnell LNC Region 8 Representative
On May 4, 2020 1:46 AM, justin.odonnell@lp.org wrote:
Quick parliamentary convention. Since Nick passed the gavel to Alex, and Mr Merced was the presiding officer at the time a motion was made to adjourn the meeting to a specific date and time, are we not technically in that same meeting to be reconvened at the set date and time, and is not Mr Merced still technically the presiding officer since the gavel was never returned to Mr Sarwark prior to adjournment?
If this is the case, would not Mr. Sarwark be free to engage in debate as a member?
Justin O'Donnell LNC Region 8 Representative
On May 3, 2020 10:23 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I cited it in the meeting. I’m with a houseguest. When I’m free I’ll do so again.
I began to study thus when he voted in his financial self interest before your time. I spoke out then too.
The outside us watching and judging us just as shady as any other political organization.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 8:00 PM Francis Wendt <francis.wendt@lp.org> wrote:
My point, Madam Secretary, is that you yourself utilized the same opportunity that myself and the Chair utilized as a member of this party to address the Bylaws committee during public comments. It is a right of members that does not go away without specific citation, as the bylaws committee is a committee of the convention, and not that of the LNC. In other words, the LNC Chair has no jurisdiction, nor undue influence over the Bylaws committee, and the Bylaws committee, to their credit, operated outside of that influence.
To further answer your question: yes, I do request the citation that you are referencing in regards to impartiality of the Chair as I would like to review your claims for accuracy.
Further, I respectfully request the citation to RONR that you gave in the meeting yesterday to suppress the customary vote of the chair of the LNC. If we have been doing it wrong, yes, I want to know, as this will be valuable information to inform the Bylaws for future amendments.
Parliamentary authority should not be wielded as a bludgeon, we are all here to serve the members. Let's not lose sight of that goal. --- *Francis Wendt*
LNC Region 1 Alternate 406.595.5111
On 2020-05-03 19:39, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
Nothing that affects the business of this party is outside my purview.
Are you asking for citations on the fact that the chair is required to be impartial while a session is ongoing?
We have not adjourned the session sine die. We are still in that session. The chair must maintain impartiality until sine die.
Circle the wagons when someone raises concerns of impropriety. That's what most governing bodies do.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:10 PM Francis Wendt via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I would ask respectfully that the Secretary resume impartiality on matter that are outside of her purview, such as the actions of a member of this party. If there is a specific decorum that is required of the officers of this party I request citation. I request the Secretary outline her view of what is proper and improper in the outside dealings of this party. Further, I request that every member of this committee use their own judgement, and prudence in their dealings with each other, and the public.
Of course my requests mean nothing, because I am just an alternate. Such is the way we roll.
--- FRANCIS WENDT LNC Region 1 Alternate 406.595.5111
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] An article that may be of interest to the members of the Libertarian National Committee Date: 2020-05-03 11:49 From: Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> To: lnc-business@hq.lp.org Cc: Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> Reply-To: lnc-business@hq.lp.org
I would ask respectfully that the chair resume the impartiality required of a presiding officer. Including on social media. The lobbying to change votes seems highly improper.
On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 7:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in liberty, Nick
--
*In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
Thank you Madam Secretary for your attention to my requests of citation. I requested them so that the LNC may have the basis and understanding of the role of the presiding officer in relation to voting in committee business. I harbor no ill will, as you know I am relevantly new to this committee, and do apologize for the repeat request for citation from your reference in the meeting. Healthy discourse is the core of a functioning deliberative body, and it is my wish that we may all hold that in the forefront of our minds as we discuss this most difficult topic which will have ramifications for many years to come. Respectfully, --- FRANCIS WENDT LNC Region 1 Alternate 406.595.5111 On 2020-05-04 00:34, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
In response to Mr. Wendt.
This is addressed on a series of pages.
Page 53 beginning on line 15
_Chair's Vote as Part of Announcement, Where it Affects the Vote_
If the presiding officer is a member of assembly or voting body, he has the same voting _right_ as any other member. Except in a small board or committee [my note - defined in RONR as boards of less than 12 or so members so we do not qualify] however -- unless that vote is secret (that is unless it is by ballot) THE CHAIR PROTECTS HIS IMPARTIAL POSITION BY EXERCISING HIS VOTING RIGHT ONLY WHEN HIS VOTE WOULD AFFECT THE OUTCOME, IN WHICH HE CAN EITHER VOTE AND THEREBY CHANGE THE RESULT, OR HE CAN ABSTAIN. [bold, cap, and underline emphasis mine]
We continue to page 394, lines 24-29
If the presiding officer is a member of the society, he has -- as an individual -- the same _ right_ in debate as any other member, BUT THE IMPARTIALITY REQUIRED OF THE CHAIR IN AN ASSEMBLY PRECLUDES HIS EXERCISING THOSE RIGHTS WHILE HE IS PRESIDING. [bold, cap, and underline emphasis mine]
Continue to page 405, lines 20-24
If the presiding officer is a member of the assembly, he can vote as any other member WHEN THE VOTE IS BY BALLOT. IN ALL OTHER CASES THE PRESIDING OFFICER, IF A MEMBER OF THE ASSEMBLY, CAN (BUT IS NOT OBLIGATED TO) WHENEVER HIS VOTE WILL AFFECT THE RESULT -- that is, he can vote to there break or cause a tie...
Continue to page 421, lines 421-423 dealing with the Secretary
The roll is called in alphabetical order except that the presiding's officer's name is called last, and only when his vote will affect the results. [emphasis mine]
When I read that last section in my studies, I realized my taking of the roll was wrong. I informed the LNC of this fact via email on February 11. I also informed the Chair at the very next executive committee meeting why I would no longer be calling his name in the roll. So this position of mine was revealed to the LNC MONTHS ago, not just tonight. Apparently people did not think that message important enough to argue about then. http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc-business/2020/056258.html
The restrictions are imposed on a parliamentarian who is the acting parliamentarian while a member of the society (page 457, lines 8-12) except the parliamentarian's vote is limited to only ballots, not to affect results.
Though Mr. O'Donnell said he asked in the wrong thread I will answer here as it is relevant. We are all familiar with Mr. Sarwark passing the gavel AT THE BEGINNING OF A QUESTION HE KNOWS HE WANTS TO PARTICIPATE IN at the very beginning of the question, and not resuming it until the question is over. That is the ONLY way to vacate the chair in order to debate or vote unless an unexpected issue comes up in which the chair needs to temporarily do so. In our meeting, the chair passed the gavel for short periods of time so he could leave the meeting to attend to personal business. He did not do so in order to be partial. He knew at the beginning of the meeting he intended on debating - he told many members this prior to the meeting - and yet he assumed the chair, waiving his debate and voting rights. He cannot play hokey pokey with the chair position. And now as long as this question is being considered or reconsidered, he has waived his voting rights. In between sessions, he may lobby and do as he will as the issues are all decided. but we ARE IN THE SAME SESSION RIGHT NOW. We did not adjourn sine die. We fixed the time to which to adjourn, thereby continuing the session which is why I am objecting to his current actions. If we adjourned sine die, I would not be objecting though I think it would still be tacky AF and disrespectful to the body.
Ms. Mattson let me know that she may have another RONR page for me to consider. Mr. Brown asked me to consider page 53 which he thought made the voting absence optional. It does not. It says ONLY. I reserve the right to alter my opinion based on further information brought by Ms. Mattson.
I now want to object to the improper comments made to me here. It is completely out of bounds to suggest that ANY member of this body lacks the purview to object to the conduct of our presiding officer. And it is an ad hominem to say "well you argue too" as Mr. Phillips did. I am not the chair. I am allowed to do so and I do not appreciate the insinuation that since I do it, I cannot complain when someone in a higher position does it. This is the typical old party circle the wagons approach I have seen each time I dare to question the chair, for the past two terms, starting with the contract with the eternal secrecy provision. It is not becoming of the Libertarian Party to act that way. We MUST be able to examine those in ultimate control.
IN LIBERTY,
__ _ PERSONAL NOTE: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. _
Mr. Wendt you know I think you are bomb diggity. *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 11:41 AM Francis Wendt <francis.wendt@lp.org> wrote:
Thank you Madam Secretary for your attention to my requests of citation.
I requested them so that the LNC may have the basis and understanding of the role of the presiding officer in relation to voting in committee business. I harbor no ill will, as you know I am relevantly new to this committee, and do apologize for the repeat request for citation from your reference in the meeting.
Healthy discourse is the core of a functioning deliberative body, and it is my wish that we may all hold that in the forefront of our minds as we discuss this most difficult topic which will have ramifications for many years to come.
Respectfully, --- *Francis Wendt* LNC Region 1 Alternate 406.595.5111
On 2020-05-04 00:34, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
In response to Mr. Wendt.
This is addressed on a series of pages.
Page 53 beginning on line 15
*Chair's Vote as Part of Announcement, Where it Affects the Vote*
If the presiding officer is a member of assembly or voting body, he has the same voting *right* as any other member. Except in a small board or committee [my note - defined in RONR as boards of less than 12 or so members so we do not qualify] however -- unless that vote is secret (that is unless it is by ballot) *the chair protects his impartial position by exercising his voting right ONLY when his vote would affect the outcome, in which he CAN either vote and thereby change the result, or he can abstain.* [bold, cap, and underline emphasis mine]
We continue to page 394, lines 24-29
If the presiding officer is a member of the society, he has -- as an individual -- the same * right* in debate as any other member, *but the impartiality required of the chair in an assembly **PRECLUDES* *his exercising those rights while he is presiding. * [bold, cap, and underline emphasis mine]
Continue to page 405, lines 20-24
If the presiding officer is a member of the assembly, he can vote as any other member *WHEN the vote is by ballot. In all other cases the presiding officer, if a member of the assembly, CAN (but is not obligated to) whenever his vote will affect the result -- *that is, he can vote to there break or cause a tie...
Continue to page 421, lines 421-423 dealing with the Secretary
The roll is called in alphabetical order except that the presiding's officer's name is called last, *and only when his vote will affect the results. * [emphasis mine]
When I read that last section in my studies, I realized my taking of the roll was wrong. I informed the LNC of this fact via email on February 11. I also informed the Chair at the very next executive committee meeting why I would no longer be calling his name in the roll. So this position of mine was revealed to the LNC MONTHS ago, not just tonight. Apparently people did not think that message important enough to argue about then. http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc-business/2020/056258.html
The restrictions are imposed on a parliamentarian who is the acting parliamentarian while a member of the society (page 457, lines 8-12) except the parliamentarian's vote is limited to only ballots, not to affect results.
Though Mr. O'Donnell said he asked in the wrong thread I will answer here as it is relevant. We are all familiar with Mr. Sarwark passing the gavel *AT THE BEGINNING OF A QUESTION HE KNOWS HE WANTS TO PARTICIPATE IN* at the very beginning of the question, and not resuming it until the question is over. That is the ONLY way to vacate the chair in order to debate or vote unless an unexpected issue comes up in which the chair needs to temporarily do so. In our meeting, the chair passed the gavel for short periods of time so he could leave the meeting to attend to personal business. He did not do so in order to be partial. He knew at the beginning of the meeting he intended on debating - he told many members this prior to the meeting - and yet he assumed the chair, waiving his debate and voting rights. He cannot play hokey pokey with the chair position. And now as long as this question is being considered or reconsidered, he has waived his voting rights. In between sessions, he may lobby and do as he will as the issues are all decided. but we *ARE IN THE SAME SESSION RIGHT NOW. *We did not adjourn sine die. We fixed the time to which to adjourn, thereby continuing the session which is why I am objecting to his current actions. If we adjourned sine die, I would not be objecting though I think it would still be tacky AF and disrespectful to the body.
Ms. Mattson let me know that she may have another RONR page for me to consider. Mr. Brown asked me to consider page 53 which he thought made the voting absence optional. It does not. It says ONLY. I reserve the right to alter my opinion based on further information brought by Ms. Mattson.
I now want to object to the improper comments made to me here. It is completely out of bounds to suggest that ANY member of this body lacks the purview to object to the conduct of our presiding officer. And it is an ad hominem to say "well you argue too" as Mr. Phillips did. I am not the chair. I am allowed to do so and I do not appreciate the insinuation that since I do it, I cannot complain when someone in a higher position does it. This is the typical old party circle the wagons approach I have seen each time I dare to question the chair, for the past two terms, starting with the contract with the eternal secrecy provision. It is not becoming of the Libertarian Party to act that way. We MUST be able to examine those in ultimate control.
*In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
The national convention is not a 'project', peripheral, experimental, or new. The COC exists to plan a convention. The COC does not exist to propose activities requiring bylaws changes, etc... The COC makes recommendations to the LNC based on the COC's scope of work. The LNC decides to accept or reject COC recommendations. If the LNC wants to do something other than a convention in accordance with Party rules, the LNC would need to move such, not the COC. It was the COC who called the Saturday meeting, so that we could update the LNC on the situation. The LNC had not called such a meeting previously. On Sun, May 3, 2020, 8:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in
I have nothing but the deepest appreciation for the CoC. *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 10:01 AM Whitney Bilyeu via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
The national convention is not a 'project', peripheral, experimental, or new.
The COC exists to plan a convention. The COC does not exist to propose activities requiring bylaws changes, etc...
The COC makes recommendations to the LNC based on the COC's scope of work.
The LNC decides to accept or reject COC recommendations. If the LNC wants to do something other than a convention in accordance with Party rules, the LNC would need to move such, not the COC.
It was the COC who called the Saturday meeting, so that we could update the LNC on the situation. The LNC had not called such a meeting previously.
On Sun, May 3, 2020, 8:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in
I agree with John and Tim on this. Rather than claim 'impropriety', please share your source, Roberts Rules or whatever. On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 11:22 AM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I have nothing but the deepest appreciation for the CoC.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 10:01 AM Whitney Bilyeu via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
The national convention is not a 'project', peripheral, experimental, or new.
The COC exists to plan a convention. The COC does not exist to propose activities requiring bylaws changes, etc...
The COC makes recommendations to the LNC based on the COC's scope of work.
The LNC decides to accept or reject COC recommendations. If the LNC wants to do something other than a convention in accordance with Party rules, the LNC would need to move such, not the COC.
It was the COC who called the Saturday meeting, so that we could update the LNC on the situation. The LNC had not called such a meeting previously.
On Sun, May 3, 2020, 8:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in
Scroll up. I did. And if you want the link to the FB discussion privately, email me for the link. I will not post it here as it is on a private individual's page, and I do not want them to get troll swamped. *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 10:50 AM Phillip Anderson <phillip.anderson@lp.org> wrote:
I agree with John and Tim on this. Rather than claim 'impropriety', please share your source, Roberts Rules or whatever.
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 11:22 AM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I have nothing but the deepest appreciation for the CoC.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 10:01 AM Whitney Bilyeu via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
The national convention is not a 'project', peripheral, experimental, or new.
The COC exists to plan a convention. The COC does not exist to propose activities requiring bylaws changes, etc...
The COC makes recommendations to the LNC based on the COC's scope of work.
The LNC decides to accept or reject COC recommendations. If the LNC wants to do something other than a convention in accordance with Party rules, the LNC would need to move such, not the COC.
It was the COC who called the Saturday meeting, so that we could update the LNC on the situation. The LNC had not called such a meeting previously.
On Sun, May 3, 2020, 8:34 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Dear All,
This article may be of interest to you in advance of our adjourned meeting this coming Saturday.
https://hbr.org/1987/03/knowing-when-to-pull-the-plug
Yours in
participants (14)
-
Caryn Ann Harlos -
Elizabeth Van Horn -
Erin Adams -
Francis Wendt -
Joe Bishop-Henchman -
john.phillips＠lp.org -
joshua.smith＠lp.org -
justin.odonnell＠lp.org -
Nicholas Sarwark -
Phillip Anderson -
Richard Longstreth -
Steven Nekhaila -
Tim Hagan -
Whitney Bilyeu