Daniel, this is excellent as far as it goes. I will cosponsor provided that you include something similar to the following: “Whereas, The United States Military-Industrial-Complex has used aggressive and unethical recruiting tactics to lure many well-meaning military service members into going against their conscience on military policy” This puts the burden of guilt on the government. The purported purpose of this motion of to make peace with all parties involved. However, the reasons for not including such a statement are patently obvious and clearly not intended to make peace with those who supported Arvin’s original legitimate contention. Without the inclusion of something like the statement above, I will reluctantly vote in favor but will not cosponsor. It probably could use some wordsmithing. Thoughts? ~David Dec 28-Jan 1 Omaha Roads to Liberty Un-Convention ~David Pratt Demarest LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI) Secretary, LPNE State Central Committee Cell: 402-981-6469 Home: 402-493-0873 From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces@hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of Caryn Ann Harlos Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 11:54 PM To: Libertarian National Committee list <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> Cc: lnc-business <lnc-business@lp.org> Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] Libertarian National Committee Resolution on Military Members in the Libertarian Party I believe from my prior discussions with Region 1 Chairs that they would be in support. I will communicate this to them forwith. On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 10:51 PM, <danielehayes@icloud.com <mailto:danielehayes@icloud.com> > wrote: I am seeking co-sponsors for the following resolution. Daniel Hayes LNC At Large Member Whereas, We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression and believe that the United States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to act as policeman for the world; Whereas, We oppose any form of compulsory national service and recognize that many members of the military were unjustly conscripted in the past; Whereas, Most voluntary members of the military joined with the idea and/or goal of defending the United States and, thereby, their property, families, and friends; Whereas, The United States Military-Industrial-Complex has used many well-meaning military service members for purposes other than defense against aggression and further involved them in foreign entanglements during attempts to act as the world’s policeman; and Whereas, Many current and former military service members are able to relate, identify, and speak out on the ways in which the United States military mission has been expanded and corrupted beyond a legitimate role of defense against aggression; now, therefore, be it; Resolved, Present and former members of the military who give such unique and powerful voice to the libertarian principles of peace and the non-initiation of force add great value to the Libertarian Party, and are welcomed as a vital part of our membership. Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org <mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org -- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org <mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado <http://www.lpcolorado.org> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee A haiku to the Statement of Principles: We defend your rights And oppose the use of force Taxation is theft

I would say to any member that believes it needs more work that Daniel put out an open call for writers.... I took him up on it. Anyone could have. We all are very busy and have lives and stresses. The non-inclusion of something does not mean purposeful exclusion. If I had thought of that, and I am more than happy to share my discussions on my proposals which proposed amendments that were accepted, I would have done so. Let's please not stoke any more fires. Yes, my desire is unity. -Caryn Ann On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 11:31 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com

wrote:

I think David makes a good point. However, I helped write the Resolution and will vehemently disagree with any intent. Anyone could have volunteered to help write. Many minds help make things better.

I would personally support the inclusion of that and will supplement my email to the Chairs.

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 11:27 PM, David Demarest < dpdemarest@centurylink.net> wrote:

...

Daniel, this is excellent as far as it goes. I will cosponsor provided that you include something similar to the following:

“*Whereas, The United States Military-Industrial-Complex has used aggressive and unethical recruiting tactics to lure many well-meaning military service members into going against their conscience on military policy*”

This puts the burden of guilt on the government. The purported purpose of this motion of to make peace with all parties involved. However, the reasons for not including such a statement are patently obvious and clearly not intended to make peace with those who supported Arvin’s original legitimate contention. Without the inclusion of something like the statement above, I will reluctantly vote in favor but will not cosponsor. It probably could use some wordsmithing.

Thoughts?

~David

*Dec 28-Jan 1 Omaha Roads to Liberty Un-Convention*

~David Pratt Demarest

LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)

Secretary, LPNE State Central Committee

Cell: 402-981-6469 <(402)%20981-6469>

Home: 402-493-0873 <(402)%20493-0873>

*From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces@hq.lp.org] *On Behalf Of *Caryn Ann Harlos *Sent:* Friday, May 19, 2017 11:54 PM *To:* Libertarian National Committee list <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> *Cc:* lnc-business <lnc-business@lp.org> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Libertarian National Committee Resolution on Military Members in the Libertarian Party

I believe from my prior discussions with Region 1 Chairs that they would be in support. I will communicate this to them forwith.

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 10:51 PM, <danielehayes@icloud.com> wrote:

I am seeking co-sponsors for the following resolution.

Daniel Hayes LNC At Large Member

Whereas, We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression and believe that the United States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to act as policeman for the world;

Whereas, We oppose any form of compulsory national service and recognize that many members of the military were unjustly conscripted in the past;

Whereas, Most voluntary members of the military joined with the idea and/or goal of defending the United States and, thereby, their property, families, and friends;

Whereas, The United States Military-Industrial-Complex has used many well-meaning military service members for purposes other than defense against aggression and further involved them in foreign entanglements during attempts to act as the world’s policeman; and

Whereas, Many current and former military service members are able to relate, identify, and speak out on the ways in which the United States military mission has been expanded and corrupted beyond a legitimate role of defense against aggression; now, therefore, be it;

Resolved, Present and former members of the military who give such unique and powerful voice to the libertarian principles of peace and the non-initiation of force add great value to the Libertarian Party, and are welcomed as a vital part of our membership.

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

--

*In Liberty,*

*Caryn Ann Harlos*

Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org>

Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado <http://www.lpcolorado.org>

Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>

Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:

*We defend your rights*

*And oppose the use of force*

*Taxation is theft*

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

-- *In Liberty,* *Caryn Ann Harlos* Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado <http://www.lpcolorado.org> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles: *We defend your rights* *And oppose the use of force* *Taxation is theft*

-- *In Liberty,* *Caryn Ann Harlos* Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado <http://www.lpcolorado.org> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee A haiku to the Statement of Principles: *We defend your rights* *And oppose the use of force* *Taxation is theft*

I am inclined to support either way, but as I say, I am in discussions with my Regional Chairs. I don't believe anything in the current resolution contradicts that statement so it is not a deal-breaker for me but I personally support its inclusion. -Caryn Ann On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 11:49 PM, David Demarest <dpdemarest@centurylink.net

wrote:

I agree that we all are tired (in spades! J). I must confess I was incorrectly dubious of the motivation behind this initiative but am proud of what came out of it. I was also cognizant of Sam’s wise suggestion to limit the initial effort to 2 or 3 writers. I am all for unity, and accuracy. Let’s correct the omission and run it up the flagpole for approval.

Thoughts?

~David

*Dec 28-Jan 1 Omaha Roads to Liberty Un-Convention*

~David Pratt Demarest

LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)

Secretary, LPNE State Central Committee

Cell: 402-981-6469 <(402)%20981-6469>

Home: 402-493-0873 <(402)%20493-0873>

*From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces@hq.lp.org] *On Behalf Of *Caryn Ann Harlos *Sent:* Saturday, May 20, 2017 12:35 AM

*To:* Libertarian National Committee list <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> *Cc:* lnc-business <lnc-business@lp.org> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Libertarian National Committee Resolution on Military Members in the Libertarian Party

I would say to any member that believes it needs more work that Daniel put out an open call for writers.... I took him up on it. Anyone could have. We all are very busy and have lives and stresses. The non-inclusion of something does not mean purposeful exclusion. If I had thought of that, and I am more than happy to share my discussions on my proposals which proposed amendments that were accepted, I would have done so.

Let's please not stoke any more fires.

Yes, my desire is unity.

-Caryn Ann

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 11:31 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos < carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

I think David makes a good point. However, I helped write the Resolution and will vehemently disagree with any intent. Anyone could have volunteered to help write. Many minds help make things better.

I would personally support the inclusion of that and will supplement my email to the Chairs.

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 11:27 PM, David Demarest < dpdemarest@centurylink.net> wrote:

Daniel, this is excellent as far as it goes. I will cosponsor provided that you include something similar to the following:

“*Whereas, The United States Military-Industrial-Complex has used aggressive and unethical recruiting tactics to lure many well-meaning military service members into going against their conscience on military policy*”

This puts the burden of guilt on the government. The purported purpose of this motion of to make peace with all parties involved. However, the reasons for not including such a statement are patently obvious and clearly not intended to make peace with those who supported Arvin’s original legitimate contention. Without the inclusion of something like the statement above, I will reluctantly vote in favor but will not cosponsor. It probably could use some wordsmithing.

Thoughts?

~David

*Dec 28-Jan 1 Omaha Roads to Liberty Un-Convention*

~David Pratt Demarest

LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)

Secretary, LPNE State Central Committee

Cell: 402-981-6469 <(402)%20981-6469>

Home: 402-493-0873 <(402)%20493-0873>

*From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces@hq.lp.org] *On Behalf Of *Caryn Ann Harlos *Sent:* Friday, May 19, 2017 11:54 PM *To:* Libertarian National Committee list <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> *Cc:* lnc-business <lnc-business@lp.org> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Libertarian National Committee Resolution on Military Members in the Libertarian Party

I believe from my prior discussions with Region 1 Chairs that they would be in support. I will communicate this to them forwith.

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 10:51 PM, <danielehayes@icloud.com> wrote:

I am seeking co-sponsors for the following resolution.

Daniel Hayes LNC At Large Member

Whereas, We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression and believe that the United States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to act as policeman for the world;

Whereas, We oppose any form of compulsory national service and recognize that many members of the military were unjustly conscripted in the past;

Whereas, Most voluntary members of the military joined with the idea and/or goal of defending the United States and, thereby, their property, families, and friends;

Whereas, The United States Military-Industrial-Complex has used many well-meaning military service members for purposes other than defense against aggression and further involved them in foreign entanglements during attempts to act as the world’s policeman; and

Whereas, Many current and former military service members are able to relate, identify, and speak out on the ways in which the United States military mission has been expanded and corrupted beyond a legitimate role of defense against aggression; now, therefore, be it;

Resolved, Present and former members of the military who give such unique and powerful voice to the libertarian principles of peace and the non-initiation of force add great value to the Libertarian Party, and are welcomed as a vital part of our membership.

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

--

*In Liberty,*

*Caryn Ann Harlos*

Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org>

Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado <http://www.lpcolorado.org>

Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>

Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:

*We defend your rights*

*And oppose the use of force*

*Taxation is theft*

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

--

*In Liberty,*

*Caryn Ann Harlos*

Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org>

Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado <http://www.lpcolorado.org>

Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>

Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:

*We defend your rights*

*And oppose the use of force*

*Taxation is theft*

--

*In Liberty,*

*Caryn Ann Harlos*

Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org>

Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado <http://www.lpcolorado.org>

Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>

Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:

*We defend your rights*

*And oppose the use of force*

*Taxation is theft*

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

-- *In Liberty,* *Caryn Ann Harlos* Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado <http://www.lpcolorado.org> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee A haiku to the Statement of Principles: *We defend your rights* *And oppose the use of force* *Taxation is theft*

I was very open in accepting input because I wanted to avoid this EXACT thing. This resolution already has one Co-Sponsor. It also already very subtly alludes to the point you are trying to make here, in my opinion, by referencing corruption of the mission. I specifically added that word for a reason. I thank you for your input and look forward to your affirmative vote. Daniel Hayes LNC At Large Member Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2017, at 12:31 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

I think David makes a good point. However, I helped write the Resolution and will vehemently disagree with any intent. Anyone could have volunteered to help write. Many minds help make things better.

I would personally support the inclusion of that and will supplement my email to the Chairs.

...

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 11:27 PM, David Demarest <dpdemarest@centurylink.net> wrote: Daniel, this is excellent as far as it goes. I will cosponsor provided that you include something similar to the following:

“Whereas, The United States Military-Industrial-Complex has used aggressive and unethical recruiting tactics to lure many well-meaning military service members into going against their conscience on military policy”

This puts the burden of guilt on the government. The purported purpose of this motion of to make peace with all parties involved. However, the reasons for not including such a statement are patently obvious and clearly not intended to make peace with those who supported Arvin’s original legitimate contention. Without the inclusion of something like the statement above, I will reluctantly vote in favor but will not cosponsor. It probably could use some wordsmithing.

Thoughts?

~David

Dec 28-Jan 1 Omaha Roads to Liberty Un-Convention

~David Pratt Demarest

LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)

Secretary, LPNE State Central Committee

Cell: 402-981-6469

Home: 402-493-0873

From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces@hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of Caryn Ann Harlos Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 11:54 PM To: Libertarian National Committee list <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> Cc: lnc-business <lnc-business@lp.org> Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] Libertarian National Committee Resolution on Military Members in the Libertarian Party

I believe from my prior discussions with Region 1 Chairs that they would be in support. I will communicate this to them forwith.

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 10:51 PM, <danielehayes@icloud.com> wrote:

I am seeking co-sponsors for the following resolution.

Daniel Hayes LNC At Large Member

Whereas, We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression and believe that the United States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to act as policeman for the world;

Whereas, We oppose any form of compulsory national service and recognize that many members of the military were unjustly conscripted in the past;

Whereas, Most voluntary members of the military joined with the idea and/or goal of defending the United States and, thereby, their property, families, and friends;

Whereas, The United States Military-Industrial-Complex has used many well-meaning military service members for purposes other than defense against aggression and further involved them in foreign entanglements during attempts to act as the world’s policeman; and

Whereas, Many current and former military service members are able to relate, identify, and speak out on the ways in which the United States military mission has been expanded and corrupted beyond a legitimate role of defense against aggression; now, therefore, be it;

Resolved, Present and former members of the military who give such unique and powerful voice to the libertarian principles of peace and the non-initiation of force add great value to the Libertarian Party, and are welcomed as a vital part of our membership.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

--

In Liberty,

Caryn Ann Harlos

Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org

Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado

Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus

Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:

We defend your rights

And oppose the use of force

Taxation is theft

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles: We defend your rights And oppose the use of force Taxation is theft

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

For all those that don't see emails from Jeff Hewitt, his co-sponsorship of this motion should be below. Daniel Hayes LNC At Large Member Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2017, at 12:15 AM, From Jeff Hewitt <hdigger2004@aol.com> wrote:

I will cosponsor Daniels resolution. Jeff Hewitt Region 4 Representative LNC

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

-----Original Message----- From: danielehayes <danielehayes@icloud.com> To: lnc-business <lnc-business@lp.org> Sent: Fri, May 19, 2017 09:52 PM Subject: [Lnc-business] Libertarian National Committee Resolution on Military Members in the Libertarian Party

I am seeking co-sponsors for the following resolution.

Daniel Hayes LNC At Large Member

Whereas, We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression and believe that the United States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to act as policeman for the world;

Whereas, We oppose any form of compulsory national service and recognize that many members of the military were unjustly conscripted in the past;

Whereas, Most voluntary members of the military joined with the idea and/or goal of defending the United States and, thereby, their property, families, and friends;

Whereas, The United States Military-Industrial-Complex has used many well-meaning military service members for purposes other than defense against aggression and further involved them in foreign entanglements during attempts to act as the world’s policeman; and

Whereas, Many current and former military service members are able to relate, identify, and speak out on the ways in which the United States military mission has been expanded and corrupted beyond a legitimate role of defense against aggression; now, therefore, be it;

Resolved, Present and former members of the military who give such unique and powerful voice to the libertarian principles of peace and the non-initiation of force add great value to the Libertarian Party, and are welcomed as a vital part of our membership.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

Alicia, Not sure if you have to dig in the sever to see with the email hide and seek going on. Jeff and Tim have Co-sponsored. With you that should be the 4 needed. Daniel Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2017, at 2:12 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson@gmail.com> wrote:

I will co-sponsor.

-Alicia

...

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 9:51 PM, <danielehayes@icloud.com> wrote: I am seeking co-sponsors for the following resolution.

Daniel Hayes LNC At Large Member

Whereas, We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression and believe that the United States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to act as policeman for the world;

Whereas, We oppose any form of compulsory national service and recognize that many members of the military were unjustly conscripted in the past;

Whereas, Most voluntary members of the military joined with the idea and/or goal of defending the United States and, thereby, their property, families, and friends;

Whereas, The United States Military-Industrial-Complex has used many well-meaning military service members for purposes other than defense against aggression and further involved them in foreign entanglements during attempts to act as the world’s policeman; and

Whereas, Many current and former military service members are able to relate, identify, and speak out on the ways in which the United States military mission has been expanded and corrupted beyond a legitimate role of defense against aggression; now, therefore, be it;

Resolved, Present and former members of the military who give such unique and powerful voice to the libertarian principles of peace and the non-initiation of force add great value to the Libertarian Party, and are welcomed as a vital part of our membership.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

Apparently I think I get all of Jeff's emails. Not sure if I get Tim's when they go awry. I don't think I do but I am just now paying more attention to that. Daniel Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2017, at 2:42 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson@gmail.com> wrote:

Daniel,

Yep, working on setting up my record-keeping now for it. Thanks for passing along Jeff's message for me.

-Alicia

...

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 12:29 AM, Daniel Hayes <danielehayes@icloud.com> wrote: Alicia,

Not sure if you have to dig in the sever to see with the email hide and seek going on. Jeff and Tim have Co-sponsored. With you that should be the 4 needed.

Daniel

Sent from my iPhone

...

On May 20, 2017, at 2:12 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson@gmail.com> wrote:

I will co-sponsor.

-Alicia

...

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 9:51 PM, <danielehayes@icloud.com> wrote: I am seeking co-sponsors for the following resolution.

Daniel Hayes LNC At Large Member

Whereas, We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression and believe that the United States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to act as policeman for the world;

Whereas, We oppose any form of compulsory national service and recognize that many members of the military were unjustly conscripted in the past;

Whereas, Most voluntary members of the military joined with the idea and/or goal of defending the United States and, thereby, their property, families, and friends;

Whereas, The United States Military-Industrial-Complex has used many well-meaning military service members for purposes other than defense against aggression and further involved them in foreign entanglements during attempts to act as the world’s policeman; and

Whereas, Many current and former military service members are able to relate, identify, and speak out on the ways in which the United States military mission has been expanded and corrupted beyond a legitimate role of defense against aggression; now, therefore, be it;

Resolved, Present and former members of the military who give such unique and powerful voice to the libertarian principles of peace and the non-initiation of force add great value to the Libertarian Party, and are welcomed as a vital part of our membership.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

I have heard from a super-majority of the Region 1 Chairs and cast my vote as yes. However, there were concerns expressed by Montana about language that I agreed to put on the record. The "policeman" language, while it is in the Platform, might be seen to impugn a legitimate policing function of - as 1.9 says - assisting in the defense of persons who request assistance. There might be another concern to be placed on the record about the use of the word "corrupt" - if I am asked to, I will note them. On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson@gmail.com> wrote:

Daniel,

You receive them because you use an @iCloud email address. When Jeff's situation happens, the Yahoo and Gmail users don't receive it.

-Alicia

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 12:48 AM, Daniel Hayes <danielehayes@icloud.com> wrote:

...

Apparently I think I get all of Jeff's emails. Not sure if I get Tim's when they go awry. I don't think I do but I am just now paying more attention to that.

Daniel

Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2017, at 2:42 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson@gmail.com> wrote:

Daniel,

Yep, working on setting up my record-keeping now for it. Thanks for passing along Jeff's message for me.

-Alicia

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 12:29 AM, Daniel Hayes <danielehayes@icloud.com> wrote:

...

Alicia,

Not sure if you have to dig in the sever to see with the email hide and seek going on. Jeff and Tim have Co-sponsored. With you that should be the 4 needed.

Daniel

Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2017, at 2:12 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson@gmail.com> wrote:

I will co-sponsor.

-Alicia

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 9:51 PM, <danielehayes@icloud.com> wrote:

...

I am seeking co-sponsors for the following resolution.

Daniel Hayes LNC At Large Member

Whereas, We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression and believe that the United States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to act as policeman for the world;

Whereas, We oppose any form of compulsory national service and recognize that many members of the military were unjustly conscripted in the past;

Whereas, Most voluntary members of the military joined with the idea and/or goal of defending the United States and, thereby, their property, families, and friends;

Whereas, The United States Military-Industrial-Complex has used many well-meaning military service members for purposes other than defense against aggression and further involved them in foreign entanglements during attempts to act as the world’s policeman; and

Whereas, Many current and former military service members are able to relate, identify, and speak out on the ways in which the United States military mission has been expanded and corrupted beyond a legitimate role of defense against aggression; now, therefore, be it;

Resolved, Present and former members of the military who give such unique and powerful voice to the libertarian principles of peace and the non-initiation of force add great value to the Libertarian Party, and are welcomed as a vital part of our membership.

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

-- *In Liberty,* *Caryn Ann Harlos* Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado <http://www.lpcolorado.org> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee A haiku to the Statement of Principles: *We defend your rights* *And oppose the use of force* *Taxation is theft*

Did I vote in the wrong thread? Or is there no vote yet.... I am so confused. If there is no vote yet, consider me a co-sponsor. If there is, will someone please bump it so I can vote. I am very tired. On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 12:29 PM, Daniel Hayes <danielehayes@icloud.com> wrote:

The first clause of the resolution I drafted was the following...straightfrom 1.9.

"*Whereas, the only legitimate use of force is in defense of individual rights—life, liberty, and justly acquired property—against aggression. This right inheres in the individual, who may agree to be aided by any other individual or group. "*

I dropped it. I didn't need to recreate the entire platform. I was trying to keep this tightly focused. We libertarians tend to not know when to stop. We end up stepping in the minutia. We need to understand that sometimes less is more. The shorter the read the more likely it is read.

I leave people with this video gem to ponder. *David Nolan Alert*

https://youtu.be/056C4wM9niQ

Daniel Hayes LNC At Large Member

Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2017, at 12:37 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

I have heard from a super-majority of the Region 1 Chairs and cast my vote as yes.

However, there were concerns expressed by Montana about language that I agreed to put on the record. The "policeman" language, while it is in the Platform, might be seen to impugn a legitimate policing function of - as 1.9 says - assisting in the defense of persons who request assistance. There might be another concern to be placed on the record about the use of the word "corrupt" - if I am asked to, I will note them.

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Daniel,

You receive them because you use an @iCloud email address. When Jeff's situation happens, the Yahoo and Gmail users don't receive it.

-Alicia

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 12:48 AM, Daniel Hayes <danielehayes@icloud.com> wrote:

...

Apparently I think I get all of Jeff's emails. Not sure if I get Tim's when they go awry. I don't think I do but I am just now paying more attention to that.

Daniel

Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2017, at 2:42 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson@gmail.com> wrote:

Daniel,

Yep, working on setting up my record-keeping now for it. Thanks for passing along Jeff's message for me.

-Alicia

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 12:29 AM, Daniel Hayes <danielehayes@icloud.com> wrote:

...

Alicia,

Not sure if you have to dig in the sever to see with the email hide and seek going on. Jeff and Tim have Co-sponsored. With you that should be the 4 needed.

Daniel

Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2017, at 2:12 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson@gmail.com> wrote:

I will co-sponsor.

-Alicia

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 9:51 PM, <danielehayes@icloud.com> wrote:

...

I am seeking co-sponsors for the following resolution.

Daniel Hayes LNC At Large Member

Whereas, We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression and believe that the United States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to act as policeman for the world;

Whereas, We oppose any form of compulsory national service and recognize that many members of the military were unjustly conscripted in the past;

Whereas, Most voluntary members of the military joined with the idea and/or goal of defending the United States and, thereby, their property, families, and friends;

Whereas, The United States Military-Industrial-Complex has used many well-meaning military service members for purposes other than defense against aggression and further involved them in foreign entanglements during attempts to act as the world’s policeman; and

Whereas, Many current and former military service members are able to relate, identify, and speak out on the ways in which the United States military mission has been expanded and corrupted beyond a legitimate role of defense against aggression; now, therefore, be it;

Resolved, Present and former members of the military who give such unique and powerful voice to the libertarian principles of peace and the non-initiation of force add great value to the Libertarian Party, and are welcomed as a vital part of our membership.

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

-- *In Liberty,* *Caryn Ann Harlos* Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado <http://www.lpcolorado.org> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles: *We defend your rights* *And oppose the use of force* *Taxation is theft*

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

-- *In Liberty,* *Caryn Ann Harlos* Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado <http://www.lpcolorado.org> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee A haiku to the Statement of Principles: *We defend your rights* *And oppose the use of force* *Taxation is theft*

Thank you Alicia, I was very confused. -Caryn Ann On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 5:39 PM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson@gmail.com> wrote:

Caryn Ann,

Yes, there is an email ballot. Yes, you voted in the wrong thread, but I found it and counted it. You're looking for the aptly-named "Email Ballot 2017-11: Military Members" thread.

-Alicia

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos < carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Did I vote in the wrong thread? Or is there no vote yet.... I am so confused.

If there is no vote yet, consider me a co-sponsor. If there is, will someone please bump it so I can vote.

I am very tired.

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 12:29 PM, Daniel Hayes <danielehayes@icloud.com> wrote:

...

The first clause of the resolution I drafted was the following...straightfrom 1.9.

"*Whereas, the only legitimate use of force is in defense of individual rights—life, liberty, and justly acquired property—against aggression. This right inheres in the individual, who may agree to be aided by any other individual or group. "*

I dropped it. I didn't need to recreate the entire platform. I was trying to keep this tightly focused. We libertarians tend to not know when to stop. We end up stepping in the minutia. We need to understand that sometimes less is more. The shorter the read the more likely it is read.

I leave people with this video gem to ponder. *David Nolan Alert*

https://youtu.be/056C4wM9niQ

Daniel Hayes LNC At Large Member

Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2017, at 12:37 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

I have heard from a super-majority of the Region 1 Chairs and cast my vote as yes.

However, there were concerns expressed by Montana about language that I agreed to put on the record. The "policeman" language, while it is in the Platform, might be seen to impugn a legitimate policing function of - as 1.9 says - assisting in the defense of persons who request assistance. There might be another concern to be placed on the record about the use of the word "corrupt" - if I am asked to, I will note them.

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Daniel,

You receive them because you use an @iCloud email address. When Jeff's situation happens, the Yahoo and Gmail users don't receive it.

-Alicia

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 12:48 AM, Daniel Hayes <danielehayes@icloud.com

...

wrote:

...

Apparently I think I get all of Jeff's emails. Not sure if I get Tim's when they go awry. I don't think I do but I am just now paying more attention to that.

Daniel

Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2017, at 2:42 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson@gmail.com> wrote:

Daniel,

Yep, working on setting up my record-keeping now for it. Thanks for passing along Jeff's message for me.

-Alicia

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 12:29 AM, Daniel Hayes < danielehayes@icloud.com> wrote:

...

Alicia,

Not sure if you have to dig in the sever to see with the email hide and seek going on. Jeff and Tim have Co-sponsored. With you that should be the 4 needed.

Daniel

Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2017, at 2:12 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson@gmail.com> wrote:

I will co-sponsor.

-Alicia

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 9:51 PM, <danielehayes@icloud.com> wrote:

> I am seeking co-sponsors for the following resolution. > > Daniel Hayes > LNC At Large Member > > > Whereas, We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to > defend the United States against aggression and believe that the United > States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to > act as policeman for the world; > > > > Whereas, We oppose any form of compulsory national service and > recognize that many members of the military were unjustly conscripted in > the past; > > Whereas, Most voluntary members of the military joined with the idea > and/or goal of defending the United States and, thereby, their property, > families, and friends; > > > > Whereas, The United States Military-Industrial-Complex has used many > well-meaning military service members for purposes other than defense > against aggression and further involved them in foreign entanglements > during attempts to act as the world’s policeman; and > > > > Whereas, Many current and former military service members are able > to relate, identify, and speak out on the ways in which the United States > military mission has been expanded and corrupted beyond a legitimate role > of defense against aggression; now, therefore, be it; > > > Resolved, Present and former members of the military who give such > unique and powerful voice to the libertarian principles of peace and the > non-initiation of force add great value to the Libertarian Party, and are > welcomed as a vital part of our membership. > > > > Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for > Windows 10 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Lnc-business mailing list > Lnc-business@hq.lp.org > http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org > > _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

-- *In Liberty,* *Caryn Ann Harlos* Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado <http://www.lpcolorado.org> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles: *We defend your rights* *And oppose the use of force* *Taxation is theft*

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

-- *In Liberty,* *Caryn Ann Harlos* Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado <http://www.lpcolorado.org> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles: *We defend your rights* *And oppose the use of force* *Taxation is theft*

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

-- *In Liberty,* *Caryn Ann Harlos* Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado <http://www.lpcolorado.org> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee A haiku to the Statement of Principles: *We defend your rights* *And oppose the use of force* *Taxation is theft*

I don't think its a vote yet. I am very confused. But my conscience is clear and I am representing the bottom up from my region. That is all I can do. And I think this is all a case of us believing we are the dog and not the tail. But this is the last of my mental angst I am spending on this, I missed collecting signatures today because of this and realized, enough is enough. -Caryn Ann On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 3:15 PM, David Demarest <dpdemarest@centurylink.net> wrote:

Dear LNC Members,

Upon careful reflection, I expressly vote *NO* on the “Libertarian National Committee Resolution on Military Members in the Libertarian Party” motion.

This perhaps well-intended but knee-jerk response to our current discomforts disingenuously blamed on Arvin Vohra is a mixed bag that contains several excellent and accurate reflections of our principles on the overreach and abuses of the military-industrial-government monolith. Unfortunately, this motion is sullied by several politically-correct platitudes for the obvious purpose of enticing votes from veterans in support of top-down Libertarian candidates. These platitudes, ostensibly offered in the name of smoothing over the unintended consequences of this uninspiring political-correctness orgy, may feel good to some but will fool no one. Did similar politically-correct platitudes work in the 2016 presidential election?

I have empathy for hard-working “earned-luncher” veterans and citizens who embrace the rigors of the free market and are faced with moral dilemma decisions accompanied with associated guilt-feeling consequences that force them into the dismaying choice between economically non-competitive marginal subsistence or compromising their conscience in the food fight with the “free-luncher” consortium of authoritarian preference-dispensers and responsibility-abdicators who expressly avoid the rigors of the free market to gain votes or government-pandered preferences in exchange for votes paid for by “earned luncher” veterans and citizens.

However, I have little empathy for Libertarians who succumb to the temptation to wallow in political correctness and political damage control for the express purpose of getting elected. We already have two parties with discredited political-correctness policies and platforms. We do not need a third. We can do better. We must do better if we seriously intend to achieve freedom, nothing more, nothing less, instead of becoming the third leg addition to the cronyism-riddled broken two-party system that is accelerating toward predictable cyclic economic and societal collapse.

I urge other LNC members to thoughtfully examine their conscience, moral premises and the dangers of political correctness as they vote on this motion. There are better ways for Libertarians to gain the confidence of veteran voters. We would be better served to avoid political correctness orgies and work together with veterans and citizens to help them find solutions to the growing tsunami of government-imposed moral dilemmas. I volunteer to be part of that inspiring process that has a far greater chance of success than intellectually offensive, morally disgusting and transparent political-correctness orgies that fool no one.

Thoughts?

~David

*Dec 28-Jan 1 Omaha Roads to Liberty Un-Convention*

~David Pratt Demarest

LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)

Secretary, LPNE State Central Committee

Cell: 402-981-6469 <(402)%20981-6469>

Home: 402-493-0873 <(402)%20493-0873>

*From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces@hq.lp.org] *On Behalf Of *Daniel Hayes *Sent:* Saturday, May 20, 2017 1:30 PM *To:* lnc-business@hq.lp.org *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Libertarian National Committee Resolution on Military Members in the Libertarian Party

The first clause of the resolution I drafted was the following...straightfrom 1.9.

"*Whereas, the only legitimate use of force is in defense of individual rights—life, liberty, and justly acquired property—against aggression. This right inheres in the individual, who may agree to be aided by any other individual or group. "*

I dropped it. I didn't need to recreate the entire platform. I was trying to keep this tightly focused. We libertarians tend to not know when to stop. We end up stepping in the minutia. We need to understand that sometimes less is more. The shorter the read the more likely it is read.

I leave people with this video gem to ponder. *David Nolan Alert*

https://youtu.be/056C4wM9niQ

Daniel Hayes

LNC At Large Member

Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2017, at 12:37 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

I have heard from a super-majority of the Region 1 Chairs and cast my vote as yes.

However, there were concerns expressed by Montana about language that I agreed to put on the record. The "policeman" language, while it is in the Platform, might be seen to impugn a legitimate policing function of - as 1.9 says - assisting in the defense of persons who request assistance. There might be another concern to be placed on the record about the use of the word "corrupt" - if I am asked to, I will note them.

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson@gmail.com> wrote:

Daniel,

You receive them because you use an @iCloud email address. When Jeff's situation happens, the Yahoo and Gmail users don't receive it.

-Alicia

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 12:48 AM, Daniel Hayes <danielehayes@icloud.com> wrote:

Apparently I think I get all of Jeff's emails. Not sure if I get Tim's when they go awry. I don't think I do but I am just now paying more attention to that.

Daniel

Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2017, at 2:42 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson@gmail.com> wrote:

Daniel,

Yep, working on setting up my record-keeping now for it. Thanks for passing along Jeff's message for me.

-Alicia

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 12:29 AM, Daniel Hayes <danielehayes@icloud.com> wrote:

Alicia,

Not sure if you have to dig in the sever to see with the email hide and seek going on. Jeff and Tim have Co-sponsored. With you that should be the 4 needed.

Daniel

Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2017, at 2:12 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson@gmail.com> wrote:

I will co-sponsor.

-Alicia

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 9:51 PM, <danielehayes@icloud.com> wrote:

I am seeking co-sponsors for the following resolution.

Daniel Hayes LNC At Large Member

Whereas, We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression and believe that the United States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to act as policeman for the world;

Whereas, We oppose any form of compulsory national service and recognize that many members of the military were unjustly conscripted in the past;

Whereas, Most voluntary members of the military joined with the idea and/or goal of defending the United States and, thereby, their property, families, and friends;

Whereas, The United States Military-Industrial-Complex has used many well-meaning military service members for purposes other than defense against aggression and further involved them in foreign entanglements during attempts to act as the world’s policeman; and

Whereas, Many current and former military service members are able to relate, identify, and speak out on the ways in which the United States military mission has been expanded and corrupted beyond a legitimate role of defense against aggression; now, therefore, be it;

Resolved, Present and former members of the military who give such unique and powerful voice to the libertarian principles of peace and the non-initiation of force add great value to the Libertarian Party, and are welcomed as a vital part of our membership.

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

--

*In Liberty,*

*Caryn Ann Harlos*

Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org>

Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado <http://www.lpcolorado.org>

Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>

Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:

*We defend your rights*

*And oppose the use of force*

*Taxation is theft*

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

-- *In Liberty,* *Caryn Ann Harlos* Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado <http://www.lpcolorado.org> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee A haiku to the Statement of Principles: *We defend your rights* *And oppose the use of force* *Taxation is theft*

Daniel, Let me take a stab at answering your points in order. I am not sure what you mean by projecting. I was not aware that our vice chair seemed to say he is pandering to Ancaps. Incidentally, I am not an AnCap. I am a Voluntaryist as are most Libertarians that are incorrectly labeled with the broad brush of anarchism. Not much difference but worth noting. I suppose all people and all Libertarians use political correctness and pandering to some degree as a fact of living, particularly under the burden of moral dilemmas imposed on us by government. However, I avoid political correctness and pandering perhaps to fault in the eyes of some. Perfect? No, but pretty damn good and getting better thanks in part to the Libertarian Party. I consider political correctness and pandering to be lacking in intellectual honesty and an easy way out to avoid controversy and social ostracism. Point of fact, pandering to what you refer to as “AnCaps” is practically a guaranteed path to social ostracism in the Libertarian Party, particularly from some who have no interest in deep-dive root-cause analysis. Now as to the reasons how I arrived at my No vote in addition to why I voted No in my motion vote email. As I previously stated, I was dubious about the motivation and course the motion would take. I knew that what I had to offer had little chance of gaining a consensus. However, I was pleasantly surprised that the resulting motion was considerably better than what I expected at least in terms of soothing the hubbub. I noted a missing element regarding aggressive and unethical military recruiting and developed a version that included the mention of large enlistment bonuses and college education. In the spirit of smoothing the controversy, I removed the specific recruiting enticements because they could be considered as reigniting the hubbub rather than pouring oil over troubled waters. Upon reflection, my first inclination was to abstain in part because my sanitized recruiting statement was omitted even though the motion could easily have been amended as we did umpteen times in the Cuban Libertarian Prisoner motion. That omission did raise a red flag. However, when I saw the final version of the motion, in part triggered by comments for the chair from another state, I was uncomfortable with the political correctness tone of several statements and the fact that the sanitized version that I had offered on recruiting practices did not have the teeth in it that I thought would be required to get at the heart of the matter, namely helping veterans with their understandable moral dilemma stresses. All of us and especially veterans suffer under government-imposed moral dilemmas. My sanitized version, even if had been used, and the rest of the motion simply did not address the real needs of veterans. Down deep they know the moral questions they are faced with. Whitewashing those moral questions does them a disservice and does not help them resolve their moral concerns. Assuming that platitudes and pandering will satisfy them and meet their needs is an insult to their intelligence and a transparent attempt to gloss over their real needs merely to get votes. I find that unconscionable at least for me and accordingly decided to vote No and explain my reasons in detail. And, yes, I did thank the chair from another state for triggering me to reflect more carefully. The substance of what I reflected on had nothing to do with the chair from another state. My continued reflection had to do solely with my personal views on political correctness and pandering, both of which I consider to be intellectually dishonest, but more importantly, they do not get to the heart of the matters being considered and what solutions might really help resolve the underlying issues. The bottom line is that my “No” vote reflects my concerns that veterans need our well-thought-out assistance, not our crass pandering solely for the purpose of garnering their votes. Come on, folks – let’s help our veterans, not blow them insincere kisses for votes. Daniel, yes, my approach to communication is to get straight to the point, express the truth as I see it, and get Libertarian stuff done even if it does not contribute to winning a popular vote for me. As to representing Region 6, I have always made it crystal clear that I will listen to all thoughtful input but always, always vote my conscience. If they do not like that approach, it is easily remedied by convention delegate votes or removal for cause if justified which is not the case. However, that is a moot point since I advertised well in advance of these recent controversies that I would set an example by self-term-limiting myself to one term as Region 6 Representative. I have informed interested Region 6 parties and at least one well-qualified candidate is already campaigning to be my replacement. In consulting with LNC leadership, I have determined there is no bylaw that requires a regional rep to poll their constituents and vote according to the popular poll results that would, of course, ignore minority desires. There is also no bylaw that prohibits a regional rep from always voting their conscience. Count on it, I will always vote my carefully considered conscience dictates regardless of the consequences. It is a good long-term plan for candidates to consider. Daniel, thank you for asking questions that allowed me to add to my previous explanation of why I voted No with an explanation of how I arrived at the No vote. Some of your assumptions were incorrect but they deserved clarification on the missing information. Let me know if you have any additional questions. Thoughts? ~David Dec 28-Jan 1 Omaha Roads to Liberty Un-Convention ~David Pratt Demarest LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI) Secretary, LPNE State Central Committee Cell: 402-981-6469 Home: 402-493-0873 From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces@hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Hayes Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2017 7:52 PM To: lnc-business@hq.lp.org Cc: Lex Green <lexgreen@lpillinois.org>; james@lpia.org Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] Libertarian National Committee Resolution on Military Members in the Libertarian Party David, Stop projecting. There is a difference between targeting and tailoring a message to an audience and pandering. In his own words our vice chair seemed to say he is pandering to Ancaps. People need to stop being so hypocritical and look in the mirror. One could very reasonably construe you CCing a chairman from another state on your last insulting and inflammatory email as CLEAR pandering. You had stated you would vote Yes for my motion. Instead you have pandered to a group outside your region. Since you have this continued pattern of insulting, insinuating emails, I am pointing that out. If you were representing your region your vote would have been a YES from what I gathered from your region's Chairs and EC members. You're engaged in you own brand of political correctness. Stop pandering and start representing your region. Every email you write these days is filled with veiled insults and innuendo. It's not productive. Let me also be clear. This isn't because you voted "no" to the resolution. It's the way in which you did it. Daniel Hayes LNC At Large Member Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2017, at 4:15 PM, David Demarest <dpdemarest@centurylink.net <mailto:dpdemarest@centurylink.net> > wrote: Dear LNC Members, Upon careful reflection, I expressly vote NO on the “Libertarian National Committee Resolution on Military Members in the Libertarian Party” motion. This perhaps well-intended but knee-jerk response to our current discomforts disingenuously blamed on Arvin Vohra is a mixed bag that contains several excellent and accurate reflections of our principles on the overreach and abuses of the military-industrial-government monolith. Unfortunately, this motion is sullied by several politically-correct platitudes for the obvious purpose of enticing votes from veterans in support of top-down Libertarian candidates. These platitudes, ostensibly offered in the name of smoothing over the unintended consequences of this uninspiring political-correctness orgy, may feel good to some but will fool no one. Did similar politically-correct platitudes work in the 2016 presidential election? I have empathy for hard-working “earned-luncher” veterans and citizens who embrace the rigors of the free market and are faced with moral dilemma decisions accompanied with associated guilt-feeling consequences that force them into the dismaying choice between economically non-competitive marginal subsistence or compromising their conscience in the food fight with the “free-luncher” consortium of authoritarian preference-dispensers and responsibility-abdicators who expressly avoid the rigors of the free market to gain votes or government-pandered preferences in exchange for votes paid for by “earned luncher” veterans and citizens. However, I have little empathy for Libertarians who succumb to the temptation to wallow in political correctness and political damage control for the express purpose of getting elected. We already have two parties with discredited political-correctness policies and platforms. We do not need a third. We can do better. We must do better if we seriously intend to achieve freedom, nothing more, nothing less, instead of becoming the third leg addition to the cronyism-riddled broken two-party system that is accelerating toward predictable cyclic economic and societal collapse. I urge other LNC members to thoughtfully examine their conscience, moral premises and the dangers of political correctness as they vote on this motion. There are better ways for Libertarians to gain the confidence of veteran voters. We would be better served to avoid political correctness orgies and work together with veterans and citizens to help them find solutions to the growing tsunami of government-imposed moral dilemmas. I volunteer to be part of that inspiring process that has a far greater chance of success than intellectually offensive, morally disgusting and transparent political-correctness orgies that fool no one. Thoughts? ~David Dec 28-Jan 1 Omaha Roads to Liberty Un-Convention ~David Pratt Demarest LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI) Secretary, LPNE State Central Committee Cell: 402-981-6469 Home: 402-493-0873 From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces@hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Hayes Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2017 1:30 PM To: lnc-business@hq.lp.org <mailto:lnc-business@hq.lp.org> Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] Libertarian National Committee Resolution on Military Members in the Libertarian Party The first clause of the resolution I drafted was the following...straightfrom 1.9. "Whereas, the only legitimate use of force is in defense of individual rights—life, liberty, and justly acquired property—against aggression. This right inheres in the individual, who may agree to be aided by any other individual or group. " I dropped it. I didn't need to recreate the entire platform. I was trying to keep this tightly focused. We libertarians tend to not know when to stop. We end up stepping in the minutia. We need to understand that sometimes less is more. The shorter the read the more likely it is read. I leave people with this video gem to ponder. *David Nolan Alert* https://youtu.be/056C4wM9niQ Daniel Hayes LNC At Large Member Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2017, at 12:37 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com <mailto:carynannharlos@gmail.com> > wrote: I have heard from a super-majority of the Region 1 Chairs and cast my vote as yes. However, there were concerns expressed by Montana about language that I agreed to put on the record. The "policeman" language, while it is in the Platform, might be seen to impugn a legitimate policing function of - as 1.9 says - assisting in the defense of persons who request assistance. There might be another concern to be placed on the record about the use of the word "corrupt" - if I am asked to, I will note them. On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson@gmail.com <mailto:agmattson@gmail.com> > wrote: Daniel, You receive them because you use an @iCloud email address. When Jeff's situation happens, the Yahoo and Gmail users don't receive it. -Alicia On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 12:48 AM, Daniel Hayes <danielehayes@icloud.com <mailto:danielehayes@icloud.com> > wrote: Apparently I think I get all of Jeff's emails. Not sure if I get Tim's when they go awry. I don't think I do but I am just now paying more attention to that. Daniel Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2017, at 2:42 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson@gmail.com <mailto:agmattson@gmail.com> > wrote: Daniel, Yep, working on setting up my record-keeping now for it. Thanks for passing along Jeff's message for me. -Alicia On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 12:29 AM, Daniel Hayes <danielehayes@icloud.com <mailto:danielehayes@icloud.com> > wrote: Alicia, Not sure if you have to dig in the sever to see with the email hide and seek going on. Jeff and Tim have Co-sponsored. With you that should be the 4 needed. Daniel Sent from my iPhone On May 20, 2017, at 2:12 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson@gmail.com <mailto:agmattson@gmail.com> > wrote: I will co-sponsor. -Alicia On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 9:51 PM, <danielehayes@icloud.com <mailto:danielehayes@icloud.com> > wrote: I am seeking co-sponsors for the following resolution. Daniel Hayes LNC At Large Member Whereas, We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression and believe that the United States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to act as policeman for the world; Whereas, We oppose any form of compulsory national service and recognize that many members of the military were unjustly conscripted in the past; Whereas, Most voluntary members of the military joined with the idea and/or goal of defending the United States and, thereby, their property, families, and friends; Whereas, The United States Military-Industrial-Complex has used many well-meaning military service members for purposes other than defense against aggression and further involved them in foreign entanglements during attempts to act as the world’s policeman; and Whereas, Many current and former military service members are able to relate, identify, and speak out on the ways in which the United States military mission has been expanded and corrupted beyond a legitimate role of defense against aggression; now, therefore, be it; Resolved, Present and former members of the military who give such unique and powerful voice to the libertarian principles of peace and the non-initiation of force add great value to the Libertarian Party, and are welcomed as a vital part of our membership. Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org <mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org <mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org <mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org <mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org <mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org <mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org -- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org <mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado <http://www.lpcolorado.org> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee A haiku to the Statement of Principles: We defend your rights And oppose the use of force Taxation is theft _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org <mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org <Untitled attachment 01596.txt> _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org <mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

PS: I consider Libertarian anarchist and voluntaryist to be equivalent terms and would easily identify as either. They both require explanation to outsiders and the term voluntarism has a theological history and background that makes it not quite a good fit in my own mind thus I prefer anarchist but either term describes me nicely. And it was the LP that made me one. For which I am forever in debt and proud to be part of this diverse lot that includes people from the entire spectrum as we are so far off from any semblance of a non-coercive world that we are brethren, kindred spirits and fellow travelers. -Caryn Ann On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 9:16 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

===In consulting with LNC leadership, I have determined there is no bylaw that requires a regional rep to poll their constituents and vote according to the popular poll results that would, of course, ignore minority desires.==

No there is not. It is how I choose to operate in certain significant circumstances depending on the totality of the situation.

I think it best. And the general method in which I promised to those who elected me. But I would never vote against my conscience either. To me it is not either or and never has been. I have 9 states over the largest geographic region in the Party. It is a good way to unify a diverse group. But in no shape or form has it ever involved violating my conscience. It would violate my conscience not to be what I considered to be a representative. If I wanted less ties to a region- for me- I would have run for at large or officer.

Every region and rep is different. How I choose is how I choose. But I would never betray my conscience and would take any consequences of voting opposite if it came to that.

I believe in the servant leadership model taught to me by my faith and try to model it.

That's just me. My region supports me in that and they are my primary duty.

-Caryn Ann

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 9:06 PM David Demarest <dpdemarest@centurylink.net> wrote:

...

Daniel,

Let me take a stab at answering your points in order.

I am not sure what you mean by projecting. I was not aware that our vice chair seemed to say he is pandering to Ancaps. Incidentally, I am not an AnCap. I am a Voluntaryist as are most Libertarians that are incorrectly labeled with the broad brush of anarchism. Not much difference but worth noting.

I suppose all people and all Libertarians use political correctness and pandering to some degree as a fact of living, particularly under the burden of moral dilemmas imposed on us by government. However, I avoid political correctness and pandering perhaps to fault in the eyes of some. Perfect? No, but pretty damn good and getting better thanks in part to the Libertarian Party. I consider political correctness and pandering to be lacking in intellectual honesty and an easy way out to avoid controversy and social ostracism. Point of fact, pandering to what you refer to as “AnCaps” is practically a guaranteed path to social ostracism in the Libertarian Party, particularly from some who have no interest in deep-dive root-cause analysis.

Now as to the reasons how I arrived at my No vote in addition to why I voted No in my motion vote email. As I previously stated, I was dubious about the motivation and course the motion would take. I knew that what I had to offer had little chance of gaining a consensus. However, I was pleasantly surprised that the resulting motion was considerably better than what I expected at least in terms of soothing the hubbub. I noted a missing element regarding aggressive and unethical military recruiting and developed a version that included the mention of large enlistment bonuses and college education. In the spirit of smoothing the controversy, I removed the specific recruiting enticements because they could be considered as reigniting the hubbub rather than pouring oil over troubled waters.

Upon reflection, my first inclination was to abstain in part because my sanitized recruiting statement was omitted even though the motion could easily have been amended as we did umpteen times in the Cuban Libertarian Prisoner motion. That omission did raise a red flag. However, when I saw the final version of the motion, in part triggered by comments for the chair from another state, I was uncomfortable with the political correctness tone of several statements and the fact that the sanitized version that I had offered on recruiting practices did not have the teeth in it that I thought would be required to get at the heart of the matter, namely helping veterans with their understandable moral dilemma stresses.

All of us and especially veterans suffer under government-imposed moral dilemmas. My sanitized version, even if had been used, and the rest of the motion simply did not address the real needs of veterans. Down deep they know the moral questions they are faced with. Whitewashing those moral questions does them a disservice and does not help them resolve their moral concerns. Assuming that platitudes and pandering will satisfy them and meet their needs is an insult to their intelligence and a transparent attempt to gloss over their real needs merely to get votes. I find that unconscionable at least for me and accordingly decided to vote No and explain my reasons in detail. And, yes, I did thank the chair from another state for triggering me to reflect more carefully. The substance of what I reflected on had nothing to do with the chair from another state. My continued reflection had to do solely with my personal views on political correctness and pandering, both of which I consider to be intellectually dishonest, but more importantly, they do not get to the heart of the matters being considered and what solutions might really help resolve the underlying issues.

The bottom line is that my “No” vote reflects my concerns that veterans need our well-thought-out assistance, not our crass pandering solely for the purpose of garnering their votes. Come on, folks – let’s help our veterans, not blow them insincere kisses for votes.

Daniel, yes, my approach to communication is to get straight to the point, express the truth as I see it, and get Libertarian stuff done even if it does not contribute to winning a popular vote for me. As to representing Region 6, I have always made it crystal clear that I will listen to all thoughtful input but always, always vote my conscience. If they do not like that approach, it is easily remedied by convention delegate votes or removal for cause if justified which is not the case. However, that is a moot point since I advertised well in advance of these recent controversies that I would set an example by self-term-limiting myself to one term as Region 6 Representative. I have informed interested Region 6 parties and at least one well-qualified candidate is already campaigning to be my replacement.

In consulting with LNC leadership, I have determined there is no bylaw that requires a regional rep to poll their constituents and vote according to the popular poll results that would, of course, ignore minority desires. There is also no bylaw that prohibits a regional rep from always voting their conscience. Count on it, I will always vote my carefully considered conscience dictates regardless of the consequences. It is a good long-term plan for candidates to consider.

Daniel, thank you for asking questions that allowed me to add to my previous explanation of why I voted No with an explanation of how I arrived at the No vote. Some of your assumptions were incorrect but they deserved clarification on the missing information. Let me know if you have any additional questions.

Thoughts?

~David

*Dec 28-Jan 1 Omaha Roads to Liberty Un-Convention*

~David Pratt Demarest

LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)

Secretary, LPNE State Central Committee

Cell: 402-981-6469

Home: 402-493-0873

*From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces@hq.lp.org] *On Behalf Of *Daniel Hayes *Sent:* Saturday, May 20, 2017 7:52 PM *To:* lnc-business@hq.lp.org *Cc:* Lex Green <lexgreen@lpillinois.org>; james@lpia.org

*Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Libertarian National Committee Resolution on Military Members in the Libertarian Party

David,

Stop projecting. There is a difference between targeting and tailoring a message to an audience and pandering. In his own words our vice chair seemed to say he is pandering to Ancaps.

People need to stop being so hypocritical and look in the mirror. One could very reasonably construe you CCing a chairman from another state on your last insulting and inflammatory email as CLEAR pandering. You had stated you would vote Yes for my motion. Instead you have pandered to a group outside your region.

Since you have this continued pattern of insulting, insinuating emails, I am pointing that out. If you were representing your region your vote would have been a YES from what I gathered from your region's Chairs and EC members.

You're engaged in you own brand of political correctness. Stop pandering and start representing your region. Every email you write these days is filled with veiled insults and innuendo. It's not productive.

Let me also be clear. This isn't because you voted "no" to the resolution. It's the way in which you did it.

Daniel Hayes

LNC At Large Member

Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2017, at 4:15 PM, David Demarest <dpdemarest@centurylink.net> wrote:

Dear LNC Members,

Upon careful reflection, I expressly vote *NO* on the “Libertarian National Committee Resolution on Military Members in the Libertarian Party” motion.

This perhaps well-intended but knee-jerk response to our current discomforts disingenuously blamed on Arvin Vohra is a mixed bag that contains several excellent and accurate reflections of our principles on the overreach and abuses of the military-industrial-government monolith. Unfortunately, this motion is sullied by several politically-correct platitudes for the obvious purpose of enticing votes from veterans in support of top-down Libertarian candidates. These platitudes, ostensibly offered in the name of smoothing over the unintended consequences of this uninspiring political-correctness orgy, may feel good to some but will fool no one. Did similar politically-correct platitudes work in the 2016 presidential election?

I have empathy for hard-working “earned-luncher” veterans and citizens who embrace the rigors of the free market and are faced with moral dilemma decisions accompanied with associated guilt-feeling consequences that force them into the dismaying choice between economically non-competitive marginal subsistence or compromising their conscience in the food fight with the “free-luncher” consortium of authoritarian preference-dispensers and responsibility-abdicators who expressly avoid the rigors of the free market to gain votes or government-pandered preferences in exchange for votes paid for by “earned luncher” veterans and citizens.

However, I have little empathy for Libertarians who succumb to the temptation to wallow in political correctness and political damage control for the express purpose of getting elected. We already have two parties with discredited political-correctness policies and platforms. We do not need a third. We can do better. We must do better if we seriously intend to achieve freedom, nothing more, nothing less, instead of becoming the third leg addition to the cronyism-riddled broken two-party system that is accelerating toward predictable cyclic economic and societal collapse.

I urge other LNC members to thoughtfully examine their conscience, moral premises and the dangers of political correctness as they vote on this motion. There are better ways for Libertarians to gain the confidence of veteran voters. We would be better served to avoid political correctness orgies and work together with veterans and citizens to help them find solutions to the growing tsunami of government-imposed moral dilemmas. I volunteer to be part of that inspiring process that has a far greater chance of success than intellectually offensive, morally disgusting and transparent political-correctness orgies that fool no one.

Thoughts?

~David

*Dec 28-Jan 1 Omaha Roads to Liberty Un-Convention*

~David Pratt Demarest

LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)

Secretary, LPNE State Central Committee

Cell: 402-981-6469

Home: 402-493-0873

*From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces@hq.lp.org <lnc-business-bounces@hq.lp.org>] *On Behalf Of *Daniel Hayes *Sent:* Saturday, May 20, 2017 1:30 PM *To:* lnc-business@hq.lp.org *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Libertarian National Committee Resolution on Military Members in the Libertarian Party

The first clause of the resolution I drafted was the following...straightfrom 1.9.

"*Whereas, the only legitimate use of force is in defense of individual rights—life, liberty, and justly acquired property—against aggression. This right inheres in the individual, who may agree to be aided by any other individual or group. "*

I dropped it. I didn't need to recreate the entire platform. I was trying to keep this tightly focused. We libertarians tend to not know when to stop. We end up stepping in the minutia. We need to understand that sometimes less is more. The shorter the read the more likely it is read.

I leave people with this video gem to ponder. *David Nolan Alert*

https://youtu.be/056C4wM9niQ

Daniel Hayes

LNC At Large Member

Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2017, at 12:37 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

I have heard from a super-majority of the Region 1 Chairs and cast my vote as yes.

However, there were concerns expressed by Montana about language that I agreed to put on the record. The "policeman" language, while it is in the Platform, might be seen to impugn a legitimate policing function of - as 1.9 says - assisting in the defense of persons who request assistance. There might be another concern to be placed on the record about the use of the word "corrupt" - if I am asked to, I will note them.

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson@gmail.com> wrote:

Daniel,

You receive them because you use an @iCloud email address. When Jeff's situation happens, the Yahoo and Gmail users don't receive it.

-Alicia

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 12:48 AM, Daniel Hayes <danielehayes@icloud.com> wrote:

Apparently I think I get all of Jeff's emails. Not sure if I get Tim's when they go awry. I don't think I do but I am just now paying more attention to that.

Daniel

Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2017, at 2:42 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson@gmail.com> wrote:

Daniel,

Yep, working on setting up my record-keeping now for it. Thanks for passing along Jeff's message for me.

-Alicia

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 12:29 AM, Daniel Hayes <danielehayes@icloud.com> wrote:

Alicia,

Not sure if you have to dig in the sever to see with the email hide and seek going on. Jeff and Tim have Co-sponsored. With you that should be the 4 needed.

Daniel

Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2017, at 2:12 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson@gmail.com> wrote:

I will co-sponsor.

-Alicia

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 9:51 PM, <danielehayes@icloud.com> wrote:

I am seeking co-sponsors for the following resolution.

Daniel Hayes LNC At Large Member

Whereas, We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression and believe that the United States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to act as policeman for the world;

Whereas, We oppose any form of compulsory national service and recognize that many members of the military were unjustly conscripted in the past;

Whereas, Most voluntary members of the military joined with the idea and/or goal of defending the United States and, thereby, their property, families, and friends;

Whereas, The United States Military-Industrial-Complex has used many well-meaning military service members for purposes other than defense against aggression and further involved them in foreign entanglements during attempts to act as the world’s policeman; and

Whereas, Many current and former military service members are able to relate, identify, and speak out on the ways in which the United States military mission has been expanded and corrupted beyond a legitimate role of defense against aggression; now, therefore, be it;

Resolved, Present and former members of the military who give such unique and powerful voice to the libertarian principles of peace and the non-initiation of force add great value to the Libertarian Party, and are welcomed as a vital part of our membership.

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

--

*In Liberty,*

*Caryn Ann Harlos*

Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org>

Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado <http://www.lpcolorado.org>

Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>

Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:

*We defend your rights*

*And oppose the use of force*

*Taxation is theft*

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

<Untitled attachment 01596.txt>

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

-- *In Liberty,* *Caryn Ann Harlos* Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado <http://www.lpcolorado.org> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles: *We defend your rights* *And oppose the use of force* *Taxation is theft*

-- *In Liberty,* *Caryn Ann Harlos* Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado <http://www.lpcolorado.org> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles: *We defend your rights* *And oppose the use of force* *Taxation is theft*