February 2015 - Lnc-business - Moellman Enterprises Email

Ratification of the International Association of Libertarian Parties charter
by Nicholas Sarwark 09 Feb '15

09 Feb '15

All, I spoke with Geoff Neale earlier this week and he informed me that the nascent International Association of Libertarian Parties has finalized their charter and will be having an initial meeting in England on March 5. He would like us to ratify the charter and be a founding member, rather than apply for membership later. I have attached the charter and a proposed motion to this email and intend to start a mail ballot at the beginning of next week, but after discussions with the Secretary, agreed that the LNC should have a few days to discuss/digest it before the actual vote begins. Thanks, Nick Proposed motion: The Libertarian National Committee ratifies the charter of the International Association of Libertarian Parties and seeks admission to the the International Association of Libertarian Parties as a founding member.

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Re: [Lnc-business] IALP charter questions
by Alicia Mattson 09 Feb '15

09 Feb '15

Geoff, Thank you for providing us with some context for what you are asking us to do. I had hoped to write this sooner, as the ideas were percolating in my head all weekend, but I’m just now getting around to putting them in writing. First I want to make some distinctions about what it is we expect to be doing with the creation of the IALP. The delegates at our convention voted for a concept, not a particular implementation. They liked the idea of creating an international organization of some sort. They specifically left it to the LNC to work out the details, and some of the key details are really important at the start, though others can be worked out later by the IALP. It’s worth investing the necessary time to create a solid structure for this organization so that it can actually function as envisioned. If it’s dysfunctional, what’s the point? As it is, I see some rather large structural problems (as I will describe below) with this proposed governing document, and I have serious concerns about whether an organization with no more structure than this can actually work. It doesn’t have to be perfect at the start, but it has to meet certain structural milestones that I don’t yet see. If the readers find my introductory commentary to be long-winded, I hope the skimmers will at least take a look below at the points I make about structural flaws. Whether or not I’m interested in joining this particular organization will depend on whether I support the goals AND believe it can be effective at those goals. Below I’ll also discuss the question of a “manifesto” as you described it. It is true that the LNC is fully capable of, as you described, wordsmithing something to death. That doesn’t mean that we should run to the other end of the spectrum and view our role as merely a rubber stamp entity that engages in no critical thinking about the subject. We are elected to engage in due diligence. I do not think that the issues I will raise below are nitpicking or trivial or wordsmithing-to-death. I think they’re rather foundational. It is unfortunate that a time crunch has been created for us such that it is nearly impossible for the international participants in this effort to take advantage of any constructive feedback LNC members might provide. The LNC did not create this timing problem, so I’m not going to feel bad for not having spoken up sooner because I was not asked sooner. The LNC didn’t set the March 6-9 meeting date and encourage people to book their international flights well before there was even a draft document to vote on. We just now learned what was developing, and just now saw this document for the first time. It is my understanding based on an inquiry I sent to Dr. Lark (please note that the LNC has also appointed him to be one of our International Representatives, as you can see at the bottom of page 23 of these minutes: https://www.lp.org/files/20140920-21_LNC.pdf) that he didn’t even see this document until it was sent to the LNC. Since you indicated that he is in the Facebook group you mentioned, I am inclined to infer that there hasn’t been extensive collaboration on the organizational design you drafted else he would have seen it sooner. I have in the past complained pretty vocally when the LNC is unnecessarily put into time crunch situations such that there is pressure to skip the due diligence phase for the actual details and just vote a particular way to keep up a particular public appearance of supporting a vague concept. If we don't approve this document, that doesn't prohibit us from approving a different one later with the same goal. Most of us laughed when Nancy Pelosi said that Congress had to pass Obamacare so they could see what was in it. I expect the LP to operate differently than the Democrats and Republicans do. Our delegates having supported a concept is not equivalent to their having supported a particular person’s proposed implementation of the concept. At the time, our delegates didn’t have a sample product available to approve or reject. It’s the difference between liking the sales pitch of an “As Seen on TV” commercial and then actually trying to use the product itself. I saw TV commercials for an under-the-bed shoe organizer that appeared in their demonstrations to have the firm structure like a cardboard box with a handle on it such that a gentle push with one hand would easily slide the whole thing under the bed to store it out of sight. The pictures on the box also implied a sturdy structure. I bought one. In reality, it’s just a limp fabric bag with no support structure whatsoever. If I push on the front, the back doesn’t slide under the bed. The back stays where it is, and the whole thing collapses upon itself in a heap. You need about 3 hands to wad it up under the bed. It was not actually “as seen on TV”. It was useless and dysfunctional, with no support structure whatsoever. *Really Important Structural Issues:* Regardless of whether this document is called a charter, a constitution, bylaws, or whatever, it seems this is intended to be a governing document that defines the structure and basic function of the organization. I agree that some decisions can be made later without a need for the entire LNC to debate the details – things like where the legal entity will be created, where the funds will be held, who hosts the website, what reporting currency will be used. But until then, you still need enough structure to facilitate making those decisions. 1) Whether or not you decide to use RONR as the parliamentary authority, you need one. In my opinion, this is the most important thing missing from the proposed structure. The entire point of adopting a parliamentary authority is so that you don’t have to write hundreds of pages of rules yourself. You adopt an industry-standard as the default, and then you only have to write rules to fill in a few blanks and make exceptions where you want to customize. If the IALP doesn’t have a parliamentary authority, there are a LOT of fundamental things that are missing. - What is there to say that members are entitled to receive reasonable notice of a meeting? - Who can call a meeting? - Do you have to meet in person? Will you conduct business by phone? Will you conduct business with a system like Adobe Connect which the LNC has decided to use for our occasional not-in-person meetings? Will you instead try to conduct business by email, which is one of the worst possible options for making deliberative decisions, so very bad that RONR warns against it on page 1 of the 11th edition? - Where is the concept and definition of quorum? - What’s to say the chair can’t just get on the phone with one other member without knowledge of the other 50 members, claim it was a legitimate meeting, and they decided x, y, and z? - There’s nothing that says it requires a majority vote to make basic business decisions. - What is a majority vote? Is it half+1 as some people believe, or is it any miniscule fraction greater than half as RONR says? Is it a majority of the total number of members, or a majority of those present and voting? Are abstentions included in the denominator? - Do the members have the right to debate a motion before they vote? - Can you set time limits on debate, or must you all sit there until the last person finishes his 3-hour speech? - Can a chair just unilaterally declare that debate has ended and gavel through a motion, or does it take a 2/3 vote to close debate before a vote? - What if the chair decides that a 1/5 vote is enough to pass a motion? - There is nothing that provides the members a means to fight back against a chair who thinks himself to be king. - What if an Antonio Villaraigosa clone is chairing and he declares a motion to have received a majority when it clearly did not? (reference to his widely-publicized actions as chair-pro-tem at the 2012 Democrat national convention) There is no call for division. There is no way to demand a count. There is no point of order. There is no appeal of the ruling of the chair. There is nothing but hope that people will be cooperative, reasonable, and honest. Obama’s campaign theme was hope, but the reality was something different. - When and how can you change a previously-made decision? I could go on, but I think this point is clear enough. You shouldn’t try to re-invent these things yourselves. A parliamentary authority like RONR defines really important core terms and concepts. It creates some basic rights for the members and methods for them to exercise their rights. It creates some protections for rights of a minority of a substantial size. It creates rights for absentees. It defines the process by which business is conducted without just making it up as you go. I don’t recommend that any group attempt to wing it without a parliamentary authority to fall back on when disputes arise...because there will be disputes. It is inevitable. You all get along great now because it’s all friendly and conceptual, but at some point you have to get down to business and will have differences of opinion. 2) This document doesn’t even provide for the existence of officers. Who will lead or call meetings if the rules don’t create a chair office? Who holds and disburses the funds if there is no treasurer office? Does it take a vote of the assembly every time a check needs to be written for website hosting? Who keeps records of what was or wasn’t decided if there is no secretary office? Perhaps the future decisions about where the entity will be based will dictate assigning particular extra duties to these offices or creating other officer positions, but these basic functions are needed regardless. If RONR is chosen as your parliamentary authority, no officer positions can be created except the ones delineated in the bylaws, so I suggest writing at least these positions into place at the beginning. You need to cover how and when they are elected, terms of office (which need to be carefully worded), etc. If RONR is chosen as your parliamentary authority, it will define a lot of duties of these offices so that your charter/bylaws only need minimal language about their duties. 3) There probably needs to be a lot of discussion about the items in Article 1 of this draft charter. What activities do you anticipate engaging in? I see item 1.c in the purposes as being very different from 1.a and 1.b. That is, of course, why it is a separate item, but my point is that 1.a and 1.b are for a different institutional creature than 1.c is. Article 1.c creates a need for some sort of manifesto/platform that defines that delineates boundaries of what is or isn’t a libertarian political perspective. If this organization is going to have a platform, I might want to know what it is before I agree to join it. If there is a platform, that means the IALP will have to routinely spend time debating and amending the platform as opposed to engaging in items 1.a and 1.b. I envision the member parties in each country as being the entities that should engage in the platform debates, and an international organization as doing 1.a and 1.b instead. If IALP is going to have a manifesto/platform, promote the libertarian brand (however that is defined), then when I look at Article 2 and see that it will not compete with organizations with non-political objectives, the natural question is whether it will compete with organizations WITH political objectives like the LPUS? If its purpose is 1.a and 1.b, that’s not an issue, but with 1.c and Article 2, I need to understand what it expects to be doing. Will there eventually be IALP candidates on the ballots competing with LPUS candidates? Purpose 1.c could lead to that. *Lower-level issues:* Once you decide that you need a parliamentary authority, then there ought to be discussion with other potential members about which one to use. Have you asked them what they use in their LP organizations? If everybody is already using the same thing, then this is an easy decision. This is a discussion you need to have before you create the organization. I personally would advocate for RONR, as it is more thorough and more frequently updated than many other manuals. There is a good reason that it is the parliamentary authority of choice for something like 85% of English-speaking organizations. It’s the institutional knowledge result of 200+ years of the United States’s experiment in self-government. It is also widely used outside of the United States as well, but I don’t have handy statistics about that. I’m not sure who gave you the impression that RONR does not adequately address virtual meetings. The 11th edition added more coverage of that topic, but it’s not that you need a manual to prescribe a particular set of rules. The key thing is that RONR defines the conditions and circumstances that are required for the deliberative process to happen, and the problem has been waiting for technology to progress enough to create those conditions for all participants to be able to simultaneously hear and react to information. At this point, the choice of technology for online meetings is more important than the question of which parliamentary manual to use. If the technology gives you an appropriate platform, then you can just use your regular meeting rules for the most part. Speaking of English, another lower-level detail for an international organization will be to agree about whether meetings will be conducted in English or in some other language. Members who speak another language need to have a right to bring an interpreter with them, if needed. Also on a lower-level (what you might call wordsmithing) a parliamentarian working with you on a project would advise you to be very particular about the language you use to describe votes, so as to make it consistent with your parliamentary authority and make sure it actually means what you think it means. Without RONR behind you, phrases like “a 2/3 vote of the entire Assembly” could arguably mean several very different things. Other recommended wordsmithing would be to pay close attention to the dues and how they relate to membership status. Are the dues a condition of membership, or are they just expected after you’re a member? What if your payment arrives on January 2nd? Is there a grace period? Do you lapse immediately on January 1st? By not tying the dues requirement into the membership article, it leaves more room for disagreement. Article 3.3 says that membership shall not be granted to affiliates or subsidiaries of a member, but in Article 3.4 there is no limit on the number of members from any country. Is it the intention that only the highest-level entity of an affiliate system can join, or if a national party doesn’t join, then can its state/county/district/province/shire affiliates join on their own? If the parent organization joins later, you’d have to kick out the affiliates who had joined earlier and only recognize the parent organization. Just make sure that these details are what you intend. The policy manual language you proposed and the LNC adopted (with some later amendments) includes the possibility and now the reality of multiple International Representatives. The LNC has, in fact, assigned this position to two people – you and Dr. Lark. Only one will get to vote in the IALP, and the LNC will need to designate which person does that. If other organizations also have multiple “ambassadors” of sorts, should there be any role for them to play? Should they be alternates who can participate and vote if the designated voter isn’t present? *Summary:* This is by no means the fine-tooth-comb treatment I would give to a paying client. This is first-read, first-things-I-noticed, material. This organization really ought to consult with a professional parliamentarian as more details are filled in because there can easily be unintended consequences, and wordsmithing can be critical in certain places. Whether or not the IALP decides to use RONR specifically, it would be a good idea for you and your colleagues to read its suggestions (chapter 17) for conduct of a “mass meeting” to create a new organization as well as reviewing its model bylaws (chapter 18) for what core subjects need to be covered. I don’t understand why you seem to be discouraging the LNC from giving feedback (instead hoping for the rubber stamp treatment) by suggesting that requests for changes would mean we aren’t cooperative because we’re arrogant Americans. I disagree that we’ll taint our reputation in the world if we ask for changes that have perfectly good reasons behind them. Opinions from the LPUS may not be any more important than are the opinions of people from other IALP members, but neither are they less important such that it would be rude of us to say anything, and we must just accept one person’s first draft without comment. I think this document needs more work before it can provide functional governance options to the IALP. Because I want the organization to succeed, I recommend that we take whatever time is needed to plan more thoroughly before pulling the proverbial trigger. Maybe that can be done in time for the March 6-9 meeting, but if not, I will again note that we did not create the timing problem. The document doesn’t have to be perfect at the start, but I don't think it has yet developed enough of the critical milestones to be a functional starting point. -Alicia On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 7:06 AM, Geoffrey Neale <liber8or(a)austin.rr.com> wrote: > Dear Alicia and the entire LNC. > > > > I will try to address your questions as completely as possible, and > hopefully the following narrative will suffice. It is to the best of my > recollection and my limited notes, so may not be totally complete, or > absolutely accurate, but it is IMO functionally accurate. > > > > In November of 2013, I spoke to a group of members of the Partido de la > Libertad Individual (P-Lib - Spain) in Madrid. Unbeknownst to me > beforehand, representatives of the libertarian parties of Italy, Germany > and the UK traveled to Madrid to attend this event. We met for about an > hour before my speech, and the topic of creating an international group was > discussed. Support was strong, but no formal action was taken at that time. > It was at that meeting that I met Guy Montrose, Chair of the UKLP, for the > first time. > > > > I had many conversations with Guy between then, starting with a marathon > all-nighter in Madrid after the formal dinner, and up to the 2014 > Convention. I would have to say that he really is the most prominent > driving force behind this effort. I made it clear to him that I had little > time to invest towards anything formal while serving as Chair. > > > > Then my calendar became somewhat clearer. Also, the delegates passed the > resolution calling for me to be appointed to the position of international > representative, and for such an organization to be created. Since that > time, I have been actively working with others to attempt to live up to the > directive from the delegates. > > > > Guy created a private Facebook group to float the idea of the IALP around > July 1st of 2014, and he started inviting members. Most are > representatives of various libertarian parties, although some members are > not “official”, such as James Lark, Nick Sarwark and Mark Hinkle. > > > > Within one week we received support for the concept from parties in > Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, the > Netherlands, Russia, South Africa, Spain and the UK. Since then we have > obtained support from Albania, the Czech Republic, New Zealand, Poland, > Switzerland (two different parties), and Tunisia. More are in the works. > > > > During the next several months, a small group of individuals started > discussing the actual creation. The four original members of that group > were myself, Guy Montrose, Juan Pina (President of P-Lib), and Roxana > Pecula, Juan’s wife. Roxana serves in a high capacity in P-Lib, and is from > Romania, where she was very active in libertarianism. One thing that was > made abundantly clear to me was that the USLP needed to be a party to the > organization from the start. I’m not sure I shared that opinion, but I was > outvoted. I have always seen the USLP involvement to be highly beneficial, > but not essential. > > > > Guy has wanted to do whatever is necessary to get this organization going, > and Juan wanted to create the organization back in August. Juan had the “if > you build it, they will come” attitude. He was prepared to take on all of > the legal and administrative responsibilities. I objected until we had the > support of the USLP, and I felt it would not be forthcoming without more > details. > > > > I had several communications with Nick Sarwark, and he made it abundantly > clear to me that he felt the LNC would not support membership without more > details, especially a mission statement. > > > > In the intervening months, we added more people to what Guy calls the IALP > Forward Planning group. We first added Toine Manders, Chair of the > Netherlands LP. Then we included Hilary Hackleman, a Californian LP member > who is married to a Brit, and now lives close to Guy, to serve as secretary > and support. We also added Mark Hinkle, to help in contacting more > international parties, since he has been instrumental in establishing these > contacts since he became Chair. > > > > Guy pushed for establishing a date for our first formal meeting – the > founding meeting. His suggestion was to hold it concurrent with an annual > event in the UK called Freedom Festival. That is what we have decided to > do. That decision was made in December. Guy has already lined up media. He > is working with the Freedom Festival organizers, and several events have > already been planned and promoted. There will be a formal “signing”, but > it’s really for show. In order to sign, the member party must have ratified > the charter beforehand. I think we can assume that this event will occur > with or without the USLP as a founding member, and changing the date or > venue is not feasible. > > > > Since this required organizational and event planning, Nancy Neale was > added to the group to assist with the conference logistics. > > > > I was asked to take the lead on creating a Charter, because I have always > been the biggest proponent of doing so. Since the earliest draft, we have > included more international representatives in a review capacity, and the > version you have seen includes the feedback from others, but the support > has been almost unanimous. > > > > The one glaring omission from the Charter is a manifesto, which I prefer > to call a statement of principles. Some just want to have the entire USLP > platform adopted in its entirety, but that support is very weak, and I > personally oppose that idea. I think such a document must be a > collaborative effort that supports the organization as a whole, and I feel > trying to craft one via emails and Facebook from the beginning just means > the beginning phase may never end. I hope to work out the scope and > requirements of that statement of principle in Bournemouth. Several people > are working on proposals. Once crafted, the entire Assembly can vote for > its inclusion. > > > > I want everyone on the LNC to understand that this formative phase has > been logistically challenging. We have a large enough time difference (the > group encompasses ten time zones), the fact that most of the working group > is employed, that fixing times to have Skype meetings is tough. It usually > falls to weekends, and still provides very small windows of opportunity. > On top of that, we have election cycles and other responsibilities that > conflict. If we added many more people to the mix, the challenges would be > overwhelming. Thankfully all of the members of the Forwarad Planning group > speak and write excellent English, or I’d be lost. > > > > The Founding Charter is designed (by me) to be skeletal in nature, and > primarily serves to define the boundaries of the members and the > organization. > > > > One example of this is that I have not specified any of the causes for > expulsion. It would obviously include violating the “manifesto”, which does > not yet exist. I feel the causes can be delineated later. > > > > Another is that I have not mentioned RONR anywhere, for two reasons: I do > not know whether that would be acceptable to a majority of the members. I > know it is used across the globe, but I also know it is not universal. > This is a decision that Members need to decide. Secondly, I have been led > to believe that RONR has not adequately addressed virtual meetings, and > this organization cannot work if we have to meet in person. > > > > I believe that many of the decisions to be made need to be either made by > the Assembly of Members, or delegated to others by them. There are many > decisions to be made, such as: > > > > Where will the legal entity be created? This will drive the necessary > officers that must be elected, since different legal jurisdictions require > different officer compositions. > > > > Where will the finances be held? There is no reason why this has to be the > same as the legal entity. > > > > Where will the website be hosted? Again, this could be anywhere. > > > > What will be the official reporting currency for financials and such? > > > > I do not have enough understanding of all of the factors involved in these > decisions, but some of the considerations need to be disclosure laws, > whether or not the legal entity can receive political donations from > non-residents, whether or not funds can be disbursed to external political > organizations, etc. > > > > I have only one strong position on the above questions: I prefer that the > US not be where we do the “official” stuff, because our political reporting > laws and restrictions are too onerous compared to many other countries. I > think the risk to the organization and the USLP is much lower if all > financial and organizational activities occur somewhere else. I don’t want > the FEC breathing down our back. > > > > As the US representative to the group, I tried to represent what I felt > the LNC would support, and now I will find out if I was correct. Most of > the feedback from LP rank and file on creating and being a part of the IALP > has been overwhelmingly positive. I gave a speech about the IALP last > night, and several people asked what they could do to help. All of the > negatives have been about the risk of creating an LP version of the UN that > will tell the USLP what to do, or drain the bank accounts. This Charter > represents the interest of the LP, and the autonomy of all Members. The > only real risk is that the IALP does something embarrassing, and the USLP > can repudiate the action, and quit. > > > > The risk/reward calculation leans heavily towards reward. The > costs/benefits ratio is overwhelmingly towards benefits. My opinion. > > > > My experiences since 1989 on the LNC have taught me that the LNC can > wordsmith things to death, and it’s not pretty, or efficient. I have no > doubts that some members will want to see more, or worded differently, > etc. The thing is that I am proposing that the USLP become a member of an > organization that will have no authority over the USLP, that will be trying > to build cooperation and good will between the ever-growing number of > libertarian political parties. There are people already working across > borders without your knowledge or permission in a totally libertarian > manner. There can be more when we have a formal organization to foster and > promote these kinds of activities. We already have dozens of people lining > up to help, and we can’t even take a donation yet. The IALP has got to get > official. > > > > The only obligation is the annual dues, which will be about $140 per year > starting in 2016, and which I predict will never have to be paid by the > LNC, since we intend to sell sponsorships for each country from donors. If > those are not forthcoming, I intend to pay the US dues myself for the > foreseeable future. > > > > If there is language in the Charter that is a show-stopper, I can try to > see if an amended version can be passed by everyone, but is the entire LNC > going to be able to give me agreed upon amendments soon enough? The mail > ballot has not been floated, and then we need to wait fifteen days, and I > would then still have to get support from those who will have ratified this > Charter. I do not see that being feasible by 3/6/2015, but if that is what > is required, I will give it my best effort. > > > > If there are suggestions on improvements, I can certainly get them in > front of the IALP once it’s formed. Since we cannot be meeting in person > very often, we will be using alternative methods, which will allow for the > Charter to be amended as often as necessary, but the threshold for changing > is very high – 2/3 of the Assembly. Changes will have to be widely > supported, and therefore should be obviously necessary or beneficial. > > > > I have viewed my role as one of ambassador, and I have been crafting a > treaty on behalf of the USLP. I have sought counsel on several occasions > from our Chair. Now that we have sufficient agreement between the > negotiators, I am presenting it to my Congress for its approval. > > > > This Founding Charter was only distributed about two weeks ago, and we > have official ratification only from Spain. However, we have confirmation > of acceptability and/or reservations from the UK, Netherlands, Belgium, > France, Switzerland, Poland, Switzerland, Italy, the Czech Republic, Canada > and I’m sure more I am not aware of, because I’m not in possession of that > information. We are also contacting the parties directly. I include a > partial communication from Luca Fusari, who is a principle in > InterLibertarians as an example of support and endorsement we have received: > > > > Geoff, the second version of the IALP's draft is very good. > > Movimento Libertario (Italy) and Liberisti Ticinesi (Switzerland), also as > Interlibertarians co-founders, will send a delegation to Bournemouth for > sign the IALP Charter and participate to the foundation of the IALP. > > It's very probable my presence in representation of Movimento > Libertario-Interlibertarians. > > > > There are two things I would like to disclose: > > > > First, the IALP Forward Planning group asked me to serve as its > provisional chair, until we have a formal meeting and a real organization. > I will also be chairing the first meeting. > > > > Second, I will be at that founding meeting regardless. All of the travel, > lodging, food, etc. is out of my pocket, and I will not be seeking > reimbursement from any party. > > > > To close, I want to get a little personal, so if I offend you, it was not > my intent. I have been the strongest proponent for having a founding > charter. Most parties are content to create the organization and work the > details out as we go along. I would be perfectly willing to do so also, but > I strongly feel that the LNC members would not endorse or support that. > Perhaps I’m wrong. Perhaps you would have passed a resolution to join > without conditions, so long as you could quit. My experience and the > advice of Nick Sarwark tells me otherwise. > > > > I am trying as hard as I can to NOT be the 800lb gorilla in the room. In > fact, both Mark Hinkle and myself have been told that no one thinks we are > acting like 800lb gorillas, so stop tiptoeing around. If there are > preconditions unique to the USLP to ratifying, that are not concerns to > anyone else, we Americans are going to be acting more like 800lb gorillas. > I really want to avoid that perception. > > > > My personal hope is that we can show libertarians in other countries that > American arrogance and dominance around the world is the reflection of the > wrong Americans in power, and not a characteristic of the American people. > We have to find ways to cooperate, not reasons to isolate ourselves. > Optimism is not required. Skepticism is fine. Cynicism is > counter-productive. There is an exit plan, and a zero monetary cost period > to see what the IALP can do. You have little to risk by voting yes to join > the IALP with its Founding Charter as it stands. > > > > Geoffrey Neale > > > > *From:* Alicia Mattson [mailto:agmattson@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Sunday, February 08, 2015 4:33 AM > *To:* lnc-business; Geoffrey Neale > *Subject:* IALP charter questions > > > > Geoff, (cc: LNC) > > Before we start a vote on this question, could we get some sort of > background report about the group that put together this IALP charter? > > What other LP groups are involved in this effort? > > What groups are expected to be founding members of the IALP? > > > > Was this charter the product of a committee with representatives from > various potential member-groups? If not, how did it come to be? > > > > Have any other groups already approved of it in its current state? If we > want to request changes, will other groups have to go back and decide > whether to accept our changes because they have already voted? Nick's > email phrased it as if this is the "finalized" document, though we're just > seeing it for the first time. Is that an accurate understanding, or is > this a first draft being circulated for feedback? > > The meeting that is scheduled for March 5th, is that for further > discussion and development, or is that the date it is proposed to have all > the groups on-board with governing documents ready to go and create the > organization? > > -Alicia > > P.S. I'll forward your answers to the LNC list. > > > > > ------------------------------ > <http://www.avast.com/> > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > >

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Re: [Lnc-business] Fwd: IALP charter questions
by Daniel Wiener 08 Feb '15

08 Feb '15

Geoff, I was not aware that the IALP Charter was formatted for A4 paper size, rather than our standard 8.5"x11" paper *which ought to be the global standard*. While I appreciate your apparent honesty in pointing that out, I suspect that your real hidden motive was to get out ahead of that looming scandal and attempt to somehow spin it away. Nice try, but that's a deal-breaker for me. Dan On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 2:27 PM, Geoffrey Neale <liber8or(a)austin.rr.com> wrote: > Dan, thank you for your kind words. Indeed, I have been trained by > experience to expect nitpicking. I’m wondering if anyone is going to catch > that the Word document (which I assume you all received) is not in 8.5x11, > but in A4. Maybe we should just wait and see if anyone catches that. If > anyone does, you might want to pass along that the US is about the last > place on Earth that still uses 8.5x11 paper. That’s just one of the many > minor nits we have to think about in the IALP. > > > > Also, thanks for correcting my memory about the mail ballot time period. > > > > Geoff > > > > PS: You have my permission to repost this response. > > > > *From:* danwiener(a)gmail.com [mailto:danwiener@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Daniel > Wiener > *Sent:* Sunday, February 08, 2015 4:03 PM > *To:* Geoffrey Neale > *Cc:* lnc-business(a)hq.lp.org > *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Fwd: IALP charter questions > > > > Thank you, Geoff, for that very comprehensive reply, as well as your hard > work in organizing the IALP. As you say, the LNC often displays a tendency > to nitpick and wordsmith everything to death, and to worry about very > esoteric and low-probability risks. But I can think of nothing important > which needs to be modified in the Charter. There's a lot of upside and > very little downside to our joining the IALP as a founding member, and the > worst case is that we simply withdraw from it if some horrible and > unfixable problem arises in the future. > > > > Since an email ballot to approve joining the IALP will only take ten days, > we should easily be able to meet your March 6th deadline. > > > > Dan Wiener > > > > On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > Forwarding Mr. Neale's reply to the LNC. > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: *Geoffrey Neale* <liber8or(a)austin.rr.com> > Date: Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 7:06 AM > Subject: RE: IALP charter questions > To: Alicia Mattson <agmattson(a)gmail.com> > > Dear Alicia and the entire LNC. > > > > I will try to address your questions as completely as possible, and > hopefully the following narrative will suffice. It is to the best of my > recollection and my limited notes, so may not be totally complete, or > absolutely accurate, but it is IMO functionally accurate. > > > > In November of 2013, I spoke to a group of members of the Partido de la > Libertad Individual (P-Lib - Spain) in Madrid. Unbeknownst to me > beforehand, representatives of the libertarian parties of Italy, Germany > and the UK traveled to Madrid to attend this event. We met for about an > hour before my speech, and the topic of creating an international group was > discussed. Support was strong, but no formal action was taken at that time. > It was at that meeting that I met Guy Montrose, Chair of the UKLP, for the > first time. > > > > I had many conversations with Guy between then, starting with a marathon > all-nighter in Madrid after the formal dinner, and up to the 2014 > Convention. I would have to say that he really is the most prominent > driving force behind this effort. I made it clear to him that I had little > time to invest towards anything formal while serving as Chair. > > > > Then my calendar became somewhat clearer. Also, the delegates passed the > resolution calling for me to be appointed to the position of international > representative, and for such an organization to be created. Since that > time, I have been actively working with others to attempt to live up to the > directive from the delegates. > > > > Guy created a private Facebook group to float the idea of the IALP around > July 1st of 2014, and he started inviting members. Most are > representatives of various libertarian parties, although some members are > not “official”, such as James Lark, Nick Sarwark and Mark Hinkle. > > > > Within one week we received support for the concept from parties in > Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, the > Netherlands, Russia, South Africa, Spain and the UK. Since then we have > obtained support from Albania, the Czech Republic, New Zealand, Poland, > Switzerland (two different parties), and Tunisia. More are in the works. > > > > During the next several months, a small group of individuals started > discussing the actual creation. The four original members of that group > were myself, Guy Montrose, Juan Pina (President of P-Lib), and Roxana > Pecula, Juan’s wife. Roxana serves in a high capacity in P-Lib, and is from > Romania, where she was very active in libertarianism. One thing that was > made abundantly clear to me was that the USLP needed to be a party to the > organization from the start. I’m not sure I shared that opinion, but I was > outvoted. I have always seen the USLP involvement to be highly beneficial, > but not essential. > > > > Guy has wanted to do whatever is necessary to get this organization going, > and Juan wanted to create the organization back in August. Juan had the “if > you build it, they will come” attitude. He was prepared to take on all of > the legal and administrative responsibilities. I objected until we had the > support of the USLP, and I felt it would not be forthcoming without more > details. > > > > I had several communications with Nick Sarwark, and he made it abundantly > clear to me that he felt the LNC would not support membership without more > details, especially a mission statement. > > > > In the intervening months, we added more people to what Guy calls the IALP > Forward Planning group. We first added Toine Manders, Chair of the > Netherlands LP. Then we included Hilary Hackleman, a Californian LP member > who is married to a Brit, and now lives close to Guy, to serve as secretary > and support. We also added Mark Hinkle, to help in contacting more > international parties, since he has been instrumental in establishing these > contacts since he became Chair. > > > > Guy pushed for establishing a date for our first formal meeting – the > founding meeting. His suggestion was to hold it concurrent with an annual > event in the UK called Freedom Festival. That is what we have decided to > do. That decision was made in December. Guy has already lined up media. He > is working with the Freedom Festival organizers, and several events have > already been planned and promoted. There will be a formal “signing”, but > it’s really for show. In order to sign, the member party must have ratified > the charter beforehand. I think we can assume that this event will occur > with or without the USLP as a founding member, and changing the date or > venue is not feasible. > > > > Since this required organizational and event planning, Nancy Neale was > added to the group to assist with the conference logistics. > > > > I was asked to take the lead on creating a Charter, because I have always > been the biggest proponent of doing so. Since the earliest draft, we have > included more international representatives in a review capacity, and the > version you have seen includes the feedback from others, but the support > has been almost unanimous. > > > > The one glaring omission from the Charter is a manifesto, which I prefer > to call a statement of principles. Some just want to have the entire USLP > platform adopted in its entirety, but that support is very weak, and I > personally oppose that idea. I think such a document must be a > collaborative effort that supports the organization as a whole, and I feel > trying to craft one via emails and Facebook from the beginning just means > the beginning phase may never end. I hope to work out the scope and > requirements of that statement of principle in Bournemouth. Several people > are working on proposals. Once crafted, the entire Assembly can vote for > its inclusion. > > > > I want everyone on the LNC to understand that this formative phase has > been logistically challenging. We have a large enough time difference (the > group encompasses ten time zones), the fact that most of the working group > is employed, that fixing times to have Skype meetings is tough. It usually > falls to weekends, and still provides very small windows of opportunity. > On top of that, we have election cycles and other responsibilities that > conflict. If we added many more people to the mix, the challenges would be > overwhelming. Thankfully all of the members of the Forwarad Planning group > speak and write excellent English, or I’d be lost. > > > > The Founding Charter is designed (by me) to be skeletal in nature, and > primarily serves to define the boundaries of the members and the > organization. > > > > One example of this is that I have not specified any of the causes for > expulsion. It would obviously include violating the “manifesto”, which does > not yet exist. I feel the causes can be delineated later. > > > > Another is that I have not mentioned RONR anywhere, for two reasons: I do > not know whether that would be acceptable to a majority of the members. I > know it is used across the globe, but I also know it is not universal. > This is a decision that Members need to decide. Secondly, I have been led > to believe that RONR has not adequately addressed virtual meetings, and > this organization cannot work if we have to meet in person. > > > > I believe that many of the decisions to be made need to be either made by > the Assembly of Members, or delegated to others by them. There are many > decisions to be made, such as: > > > > Where will the legal entity be created? This will drive the necessary > officers that must be elected, since different legal jurisdictions require > different officer compositions. > > > > Where will the finances be held? There is no reason why this has to be the > same as the legal entity. > > > > Where will the website be hosted? Again, this could be anywhere. > > > > What will be the official reporting currency for financials and such? > > > > I do not have enough understanding of all of the factors involved in these > decisions, but some of the considerations need to be disclosure laws, > whether or not the legal entity can receive political donations from > non-residents, whether or not funds can be disbursed to external political > organizations, etc. > > > > I have only one strong position on the above questions: I prefer that the > US not be where we do the “official” stuff, because our political reporting > laws and restrictions are too onerous compared to many other countries. I > think the risk to the organization and the USLP is much lower if all > financial and organizational activities occur somewhere else. I don’t want > the FEC breathing down our back. > > > > As the US representative to the group, I tried to represent what I felt > the LNC would support, and now I will find out if I was correct. Most of > the feedback from LP rank and file on creating and being a part of the IALP > has been overwhelmingly positive. I gave a speech about the IALP last > night, and several people asked what they could do to help. All of the > negatives have been about the risk of creating an LP version of the UN that > will tell the USLP what to do, or drain the bank accounts. This Charter > represents the interest of the LP, and the autonomy of all Members. The > only real risk is that the IALP does something embarrassing, and the USLP > can repudiate the action, and quit. > > > > The risk/reward calculation leans heavily towards reward. The > costs/benefits ratio is overwhelmingly towards benefits. My opinion. > > > > My experiences since 1989 on the LNC have taught me that the LNC can > wordsmith things to death, and it’s not pretty, or efficient. I have no > doubts that some members will want to see more, or worded differently, > etc. The thing is that I am proposing that the USLP become a member of an > organization that will have no authority over the USLP, that will be trying > to build cooperation and good will between the ever-growing number of > libertarian political parties. There are people already working across > borders without your knowledge or permission in a totally libertarian > manner. There can be more when we have a formal organization to foster and > promote these kinds of activities. We already have dozens of people lining > up to help, and we can’t even take a donation yet. The IALP has got to get > official. > > > > The only obligation is the annual dues, which will be about $140 per year > starting in 2016, and which I predict will never have to be paid by the > LNC, since we intend to sell sponsorships for each country from donors. If > those are not forthcoming, I intend to pay the US dues myself for the > foreseeable future. > > > > If there is language in the Charter that is a show-stopper, I can try to > see if an amended version can be passed by everyone, but is the entire LNC > going to be able to give me agreed upon amendments soon enough? The mail > ballot has not been floated, and then we need to wait fifteen days, and I > would then still have to get support from those who will have ratified this > Charter. I do not see that being feasible by 3/6/2015, but if that is what > is required, I will give it my best effort. > > > > If there are suggestions on improvements, I can certainly get them in > front of the IALP once it’s formed. Since we cannot be meeting in person > very often, we will be using alternative methods, which will allow for the > Charter to be amended as often as necessary, but the threshold for changing > is very high – 2/3 of the Assembly. Changes will have to be widely > supported, and therefore should be obviously necessary or beneficial. > > > > I have viewed my role as one of ambassador, and I have been crafting a > treaty on behalf of the USLP. I have sought counsel on several occasions > from our Chair. Now that we have sufficient agreement between the > negotiators, I am presenting it to my Congress for its approval. > > > > This Founding Charter was only distributed about two weeks ago, and we > have official ratification only from Spain. However, we have confirmation > of acceptability and/or reservations from the UK, Netherlands, Belgium, > France, Switzerland, Poland, Switzerland, Italy, the Czech Republic, Canada > and I’m sure more I am not aware of, because I’m not in possession of that > information. We are also contacting the parties directly. I include a > partial communication from Luca Fusari, who is a principle in > InterLibertarians as an example of support and endorsement we have received: > > > > Geoff, the second version of the IALP's draft is very good. > > Movimento Libertario (Italy) and Liberisti Ticinesi (Switzerland), also as > Interlibertarians co-founders, will send a delegation to Bournemouth for > sign the IALP Charter and participate to the foundation of the IALP. > > It's very probable my presence in representation of Movimento > Libertario-Interlibertarians. > > > > There are two things I would like to disclose: > > > > First, the IALP Forward Planning group asked me to serve as its > provisional chair, until we have a formal meeting and a real organization. > I will also be chairing the first meeting. > > > > Second, I will be at that founding meeting regardless. All of the travel, > lodging, food, etc. is out of my pocket, and I will not be seeking > reimbursement from any party. > > > > To close, I want to get a little personal, so if I offend you, it was not > my intent. I have been the strongest proponent for having a founding > charter. Most parties are content to create the organization and work the > details out as we go along. I would be perfectly willing to do so also, but > I strongly feel that the LNC members would not endorse or support that. > Perhaps I’m wrong. Perhaps you would have passed a resolution to join > without conditions, so long as you could quit. My experience and the > advice of Nick Sarwark tells me otherwise. > > > > I am trying as hard as I can to NOT be the 800lb gorilla in the room. In > fact, both Mark Hinkle and myself have been told that no one thinks we are > acting like 800lb gorillas, so stop tiptoeing around. If there are > preconditions unique to the USLP to ratifying, that are not concerns to > anyone else, we Americans are going to be acting more like 800lb gorillas. > I really want to avoid that perception. > > > > My personal hope is that we can show libertarians in other countries that > American arrogance and dominance around the world is the reflection of the > wrong Americans in power, and not a characteristic of the American people. > We have to find ways to cooperate, not reasons to isolate ourselves. > Optimism is not required. Skepticism is fine. Cynicism is > counter-productive. There is an exit plan, and a zero monetary cost period > to see what the IALP can do. You have little to risk by voting yes to join > the IALP with its Founding Charter as it stands. > > > > Geoffrey Neale > > > > *From:* Alicia Mattson [mailto:agmattson@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Sunday, February 08, 2015 4:33 AM > *To:* lnc-business; Geoffrey Neale > *Subject:* IALP charter questions > > > > Geoff, (cc: LNC) > > Before we start a vote on this question, could we get some sort of > background report about the group that put together this IALP charter? > > What other LP groups are involved in this effort? > > What groups are expected to be founding members of the IALP? > > > > Was this charter the product of a committee with representatives from > various potential member-groups? If not, how did it come to be? > > > > Have any other groups already approved of it in its current state? If we > want to request changes, will other groups have to go back and decide > whether to accept our changes because they have already voted? Nick's > email phrased it as if this is the "finalized" document, though we're just > seeing it for the first time. Is that an accurate understanding, or is > this a first draft being circulated for feedback? > > The meeting that is scheduled for March 5th, is that for further > discussion and development, or is that the date it is proposed to have all > the groups on-board with governing documents ready to go and create the > organization? > > -Alicia > > P.S. I'll forward your answers to the LNC list. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > <http://www.avast.com/> > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Lnc-business mailing list > Lnc-business(a)hq.lp.org > http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org > > > > > > -- > > *"In general, we look for a new law by the following process. First, we > guess it (audience laughter), no, don’t laugh, that’s the truth. Then we > compute the consequences of the guess, to see what, if this is right, if > this law we guess is right, to see what it would imply and then we compare > the computation results to nature or we say compare to experiment or > experience, compare it directly with observations to see if it works. If it > disagrees with experiment, it’s WRONG. In that simple statement is the key > to science. It doesn’t make any difference how beautiful your guess is, it > doesn’t matter how smart you are, who made the guess, or what his name is. > If it disagrees with experiment, it’s wrong. That’s all there is to it.”* > -- Richard Feynman (https://tinyurl.com/lozjjps) > > > ------------------------------ > <http://www.avast.com/> > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > > -- *"In general, we look for a new law by the following process. First, we guess it (audience laughter), no, don’t laugh, that’s the truth. Then we compute the consequences of the guess, to see what, if this is right, if this law we guess is right, to see what it would imply and then we compare the computation results to nature or we say compare to experiment or experience, compare it directly with observations to see if it works. If it disagrees with experiment, it’s WRONG. In that simple statement is the key to science. It doesn’t make any difference how beautiful your guess is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are, who made the guess, or what his name is. If it disagrees with experiment, it’s wrong. That’s all there is to it.”* -- Richard Feynman (https://tinyurl.com/lozjjps)

1 0

Fwd: IALP charter questions
by Alicia Mattson 08 Feb '15

08 Feb '15

Forwarding Mr. Neale's reply to the LNC. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Geoffrey Neale <liber8or(a)austin.rr.com> Date: Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 7:06 AM Subject: RE: IALP charter questions To: Alicia Mattson <agmattson(a)gmail.com> Dear Alicia and the entire LNC. I will try to address your questions as completely as possible, and hopefully the following narrative will suffice. It is to the best of my recollection and my limited notes, so may not be totally complete, or absolutely accurate, but it is IMO functionally accurate. In November of 2013, I spoke to a group of members of the Partido de la Libertad Individual (P-Lib - Spain) in Madrid. Unbeknownst to me beforehand, representatives of the libertarian parties of Italy, Germany and the UK traveled to Madrid to attend this event. We met for about an hour before my speech, and the topic of creating an international group was discussed. Support was strong, but no formal action was taken at that time. It was at that meeting that I met Guy Montrose, Chair of the UKLP, for the first time. I had many conversations with Guy between then, starting with a marathon all-nighter in Madrid after the formal dinner, and up to the 2014 Convention. I would have to say that he really is the most prominent driving force behind this effort. I made it clear to him that I had little time to invest towards anything formal while serving as Chair. Then my calendar became somewhat clearer. Also, the delegates passed the resolution calling for me to be appointed to the position of international representative, and for such an organization to be created. Since that time, I have been actively working with others to attempt to live up to the directive from the delegates. Guy created a private Facebook group to float the idea of the IALP around July 1st of 2014, and he started inviting members. Most are representatives of various libertarian parties, although some members are not “official”, such as James Lark, Nick Sarwark and Mark Hinkle. Within one week we received support for the concept from parties in Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Russia, South Africa, Spain and the UK. Since then we have obtained support from Albania, the Czech Republic, New Zealand, Poland, Switzerland (two different parties), and Tunisia. More are in the works. During the next several months, a small group of individuals started discussing the actual creation. The four original members of that group were myself, Guy Montrose, Juan Pina (President of P-Lib), and Roxana Pecula, Juan’s wife. Roxana serves in a high capacity in P-Lib, and is from Romania, where she was very active in libertarianism. One thing that was made abundantly clear to me was that the USLP needed to be a party to the organization from the start. I’m not sure I shared that opinion, but I was outvoted. I have always seen the USLP involvement to be highly beneficial, but not essential. Guy has wanted to do whatever is necessary to get this organization going, and Juan wanted to create the organization back in August. Juan had the “if you build it, they will come” attitude. He was prepared to take on all of the legal and administrative responsibilities. I objected until we had the support of the USLP, and I felt it would not be forthcoming without more details. I had several communications with Nick Sarwark, and he made it abundantly clear to me that he felt the LNC would not support membership without more details, especially a mission statement. In the intervening months, we added more people to what Guy calls the IALP Forward Planning group. We first added Toine Manders, Chair of the Netherlands LP. Then we included Hilary Hackleman, a Californian LP member who is married to a Brit, and now lives close to Guy, to serve as secretary and support. We also added Mark Hinkle, to help in contacting more international parties, since he has been instrumental in establishing these contacts since he became Chair. Guy pushed for establishing a date for our first formal meeting – the founding meeting. His suggestion was to hold it concurrent with an annual event in the UK called Freedom Festival. That is what we have decided to do. That decision was made in December. Guy has already lined up media. He is working with the Freedom Festival organizers, and several events have already been planned and promoted. There will be a formal “signing”, but it’s really for show. In order to sign, the member party must have ratified the charter beforehand. I think we can assume that this event will occur with or without the USLP as a founding member, and changing the date or venue is not feasible. Since this required organizational and event planning, Nancy Neale was added to the group to assist with the conference logistics. I was asked to take the lead on creating a Charter, because I have always been the biggest proponent of doing so. Since the earliest draft, we have included more international representatives in a review capacity, and the version you have seen includes the feedback from others, but the support has been almost unanimous. The one glaring omission from the Charter is a manifesto, which I prefer to call a statement of principles. Some just want to have the entire USLP platform adopted in its entirety, but that support is very weak, and I personally oppose that idea. I think such a document must be a collaborative effort that supports the organization as a whole, and I feel trying to craft one via emails and Facebook from the beginning just means the beginning phase may never end. I hope to work out the scope and requirements of that statement of principle in Bournemouth. Several people are working on proposals. Once crafted, the entire Assembly can vote for its inclusion. I want everyone on the LNC to understand that this formative phase has been logistically challenging. We have a large enough time difference (the group encompasses ten time zones), the fact that most of the working group is employed, that fixing times to have Skype meetings is tough. It usually falls to weekends, and still provides very small windows of opportunity. On top of that, we have election cycles and other responsibilities that conflict. If we added many more people to the mix, the challenges would be overwhelming. Thankfully all of the members of the Forwarad Planning group speak and write excellent English, or I’d be lost. The Founding Charter is designed (by me) to be skeletal in nature, and primarily serves to define the boundaries of the members and the organization. One example of this is that I have not specified any of the causes for expulsion. It would obviously include violating the “manifesto”, which does not yet exist. I feel the causes can be delineated later. Another is that I have not mentioned RONR anywhere, for two reasons: I do not know whether that would be acceptable to a majority of the members. I know it is used across the globe, but I also know it is not universal. This is a decision that Members need to decide. Secondly, I have been led to believe that RONR has not adequately addressed virtual meetings, and this organization cannot work if we have to meet in person. I believe that many of the decisions to be made need to be either made by the Assembly of Members, or delegated to others by them. There are many decisions to be made, such as: Where will the legal entity be created? This will drive the necessary officers that must be elected, since different legal jurisdictions require different officer compositions. Where will the finances be held? There is no reason why this has to be the same as the legal entity. Where will the website be hosted? Again, this could be anywhere. What will be the official reporting currency for financials and such? I do not have enough understanding of all of the factors involved in these decisions, but some of the considerations need to be disclosure laws, whether or not the legal entity can receive political donations from non-residents, whether or not funds can be disbursed to external political organizations, etc. I have only one strong position on the above questions: I prefer that the US not be where we do the “official” stuff, because our political reporting laws and restrictions are too onerous compared to many other countries. I think the risk to the organization and the USLP is much lower if all financial and organizational activities occur somewhere else. I don’t want the FEC breathing down our back. As the US representative to the group, I tried to represent what I felt the LNC would support, and now I will find out if I was correct. Most of the feedback from LP rank and file on creating and being a part of the IALP has been overwhelmingly positive. I gave a speech about the IALP last night, and several people asked what they could do to help. All of the negatives have been about the risk of creating an LP version of the UN that will tell the USLP what to do, or drain the bank accounts. This Charter represents the interest of the LP, and the autonomy of all Members. The only real risk is that the IALP does something embarrassing, and the USLP can repudiate the action, and quit. The risk/reward calculation leans heavily towards reward. The costs/benefits ratio is overwhelmingly towards benefits. My opinion. My experiences since 1989 on the LNC have taught me that the LNC can wordsmith things to death, and it’s not pretty, or efficient. I have no doubts that some members will want to see more, or worded differently, etc. The thing is that I am proposing that the USLP become a member of an organization that will have no authority over the USLP, that will be trying to build cooperation and good will between the ever-growing number of libertarian political parties. There are people already working across borders without your knowledge or permission in a totally libertarian manner. There can be more when we have a formal organization to foster and promote these kinds of activities. We already have dozens of people lining up to help, and we can’t even take a donation yet. The IALP has got to get official. The only obligation is the annual dues, which will be about $140 per year starting in 2016, and which I predict will never have to be paid by the LNC, since we intend to sell sponsorships for each country from donors. If those are not forthcoming, I intend to pay the US dues myself for the foreseeable future. If there is language in the Charter that is a show-stopper, I can try to see if an amended version can be passed by everyone, but is the entire LNC going to be able to give me agreed upon amendments soon enough? The mail ballot has not been floated, and then we need to wait fifteen days, and I would then still have to get support from those who will have ratified this Charter. I do not see that being feasible by 3/6/2015, but if that is what is required, I will give it my best effort. If there are suggestions on improvements, I can certainly get them in front of the IALP once it’s formed. Since we cannot be meeting in person very often, we will be using alternative methods, which will allow for the Charter to be amended as often as necessary, but the threshold for changing is very high – 2/3 of the Assembly. Changes will have to be widely supported, and therefore should be obviously necessary or beneficial. I have viewed my role as one of ambassador, and I have been crafting a treaty on behalf of the USLP. I have sought counsel on several occasions from our Chair. Now that we have sufficient agreement between the negotiators, I am presenting it to my Congress for its approval. This Founding Charter was only distributed about two weeks ago, and we have official ratification only from Spain. However, we have confirmation of acceptability and/or reservations from the UK, Netherlands, Belgium, France, Switzerland, Poland, Switzerland, Italy, the Czech Republic, Canada and I’m sure more I am not aware of, because I’m not in possession of that information. We are also contacting the parties directly. I include a partial communication from Luca Fusari, who is a principle in InterLibertarians as an example of support and endorsement we have received: Geoff, the second version of the IALP's draft is very good. Movimento Libertario (Italy) and Liberisti Ticinesi (Switzerland), also as Interlibertarians co-founders, will send a delegation to Bournemouth for sign the IALP Charter and participate to the foundation of the IALP. It's very probable my presence in representation of Movimento Libertario-Interlibertarians. There are two things I would like to disclose: First, the IALP Forward Planning group asked me to serve as its provisional chair, until we have a formal meeting and a real organization. I will also be chairing the first meeting. Second, I will be at that founding meeting regardless. All of the travel, lodging, food, etc. is out of my pocket, and I will not be seeking reimbursement from any party. To close, I want to get a little personal, so if I offend you, it was not my intent. I have been the strongest proponent for having a founding charter. Most parties are content to create the organization and work the details out as we go along. I would be perfectly willing to do so also, but I strongly feel that the LNC members would not endorse or support that. Perhaps I’m wrong. Perhaps you would have passed a resolution to join without conditions, so long as you could quit. My experience and the advice of Nick Sarwark tells me otherwise. I am trying as hard as I can to NOT be the 800lb gorilla in the room. In fact, both Mark Hinkle and myself have been told that no one thinks we are acting like 800lb gorillas, so stop tiptoeing around. If there are preconditions unique to the USLP to ratifying, that are not concerns to anyone else, we Americans are going to be acting more like 800lb gorillas. I really want to avoid that perception. My personal hope is that we can show libertarians in other countries that American arrogance and dominance around the world is the reflection of the wrong Americans in power, and not a characteristic of the American people. We have to find ways to cooperate, not reasons to isolate ourselves. Optimism is not required. Skepticism is fine. Cynicism is counter-productive. There is an exit plan, and a zero monetary cost period to see what the IALP can do. You have little to risk by voting yes to join the IALP with its Founding Charter as it stands. Geoffrey Neale *From:* Alicia Mattson [mailto:agmattson@gmail.com] *Sent:* Sunday, February 08, 2015 4:33 AM *To:* lnc-business; Geoffrey Neale *Subject:* IALP charter questions Geoff, (cc: LNC) Before we start a vote on this question, could we get some sort of background report about the group that put together this IALP charter? What other LP groups are involved in this effort? What groups are expected to be founding members of the IALP? Was this charter the product of a committee with representatives from various potential member-groups? If not, how did it come to be? Have any other groups already approved of it in its current state? If we want to request changes, will other groups have to go back and decide whether to accept our changes because they have already voted? Nick's email phrased it as if this is the "finalized" document, though we're just seeing it for the first time. Is that an accurate understanding, or is this a first draft being circulated for feedback? The meeting that is scheduled for March 5th, is that for further discussion and development, or is that the date it is proposed to have all the groups on-board with governing documents ready to go and create the organization? -Alicia P.S. I'll forward your answers to the LNC list. ------------------------------ <http://www.avast.com/> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

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Fwd: Update
by Alicia Mattson 08 Feb '15

08 Feb '15

Forwarding an update from Mr. Neale. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Geoffrey Neale <liber8or(a)austin.rr.com> Date: Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 10:32 AM Subject: Update To: Alicia Mattson <agmattson(a)gmail.com> If you want to update my email, we have now received confirmation that two people from the Partei der Vernunft (Germany) will be attending and signing. Geoffrey Neale ------------------------------ <http://www.avast.com/> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

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IALP charter questions
by Alicia Mattson 08 Feb '15

08 Feb '15

Geoff, (cc: LNC) Before we start a vote on this question, could we get some sort of background report about the group that put together this IALP charter? What other LP groups are involved in this effort? What groups are expected to be founding members of the IALP? Was this charter the product of a committee with representatives from various potential member-groups? If not, how did it come to be? Have any other groups already approved of it in its current state? If we want to request changes, will other groups have to go back and decide whether to accept our changes because they have already voted? Nick's email phrased it as if this is the "finalized" document, though we're just seeing it for the first time. Is that an accurate understanding, or is this a first draft being circulated for feedback? The meeting that is scheduled for March 5th, is that for further discussion and development, or is that the date it is proposed to have all the groups on-board with governing documents ready to go and create the organization? -Alicia P.S. I'll forward your answers to the LNC list.

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approved minutes of 6/26/14 LNC meeting
by Alicia Mattson 08 Feb '15

08 Feb '15

Attached are the now-approved minutes from the 6/26/14 pre-convention LNC meeting in Columbus. Staff, please post these to the web site when you get a chance to do so. With the adoption of these minutes, the LNC has a complete record of minutes from the 2012-2014 term. I'm glad to have that project wrapped up so I can put more focus on current-term projects. Alicia Mattson LNC Secretary

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Email Ballot 2015-01: Approve 6/26/14 LNC minutes
by Alicia Mattson 08 Feb '15

08 Feb '15

We have an electronic mail ballot. *Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by February 6, 2015 at 11:59:59pm Pacific time.* *Sponsors:* Alicia Mattson, Dan Wiener, Vicki Kirkland, Norm Olsen *Motion:* to approve the attached minutes from the 6/26/14 pre-convention LNC meeting Alicia Mattson LNC Secretary

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Fwd: IALP Charter
by Alicia Mattson 08 Feb '15

08 Feb '15

Forwarding Mr. Neale's email to the entire list for him. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Geoffrey Neale <liber8or(a)austin.rr.com> Date: Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 12:39 PM Subject: IALP Charter To: chair(a)lp.org Cc: Alicia Mattson <agmattson(a)gmail.com> Nick, thanks for posting the Charter to the LNC group. I think having a few days to review and discuss is most appropriate. One note: the organization is the International *Alliance* of Libertarian Parties, not Association. I’m just concerned that for those that parse words, a motion that misnamed the organization might not be considered legitimate. Additionally, please feel free, if you choose, to tell the LNC that I will be happy to answer any questions on behalf of the LNC. You may distribute my email. I only ask that my responses be freely distributed to the entire list so that I can avoid answering the same question more than once. Geoffrey Neale ------------------------------ <http://www.avast.com/> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

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Re: [Lnc-business] heading over budget for LP News
by Tim Hagan 07 Feb '15

07 Feb '15

My preference would be to increase the budget, and would be opposed to not sending a December issue of LP News. Tim Hagan From: Wes Benedict <wes.benedict(a)lp.org> To: lnc-business(a)hq.lp.org Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2014 2:00 PM Subject: [Lnc-business] heading over budget for LP News Upcoming financials will show we're headed over budget on LP News for 2014. The biggest reason is that the December 2013 issue shipped so late, it's expenses ended up on the January 2014 financial results, instead of 2013. Each issue has been running about $8,500 although we only budgeted about $8,000 per issue. We budgeted for 6 issues this year, but with the December 2013 issue falling on this year, we'll hit 7 issues if we get the December one out on time this year. These numbers are not exact, but pretty close. I recommend increasing the 2014 budget for LP News by $11,500. That's $8,500 for the extra issue, plus 6x$500 for each issue. Before anyone might send a motion for that, I thought you all could discuss it amongst yourselves in case people are opposed or want to do something else. A few alternatives to consider: 1. Increase the 2014 budget for LP News by $11,500 2. Ship the December 2014 issue of LP News late so it shows up on the 2015 budget. 3. Don't send a December 2014 issue of LP News (we expect complete election coverage in the issue). Thanks, -- Wes Benedict, Executive Director Libertarian National Committee, Inc. New address: 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314 (202) 333-0008 ext. 232, wes.benedict(a)lp.org facebook.com/libertarians @LPNational Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business(a)hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org

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