[Lpk-execomm] Amendment of agenda at last meeting violates bylaws

Ken Moellman ken.moellman at lpky.org
Tue Feb 5 13:39:01 EST 2019 

Okay. Let me try to walk through this logic.



Article VII:  RONR has procedures and rules set out for conventions. 
They can be altered, yes; but by default, there is a body of rules 
there.  We all agree on this, I believe.

The Constitution says that "Robert’s Rules of Order, shall govern the 
conduct of all conventions, except as set forth in this section"...   So 
the wording makes clear that default RONR now dictates how the 
convention is run, except where specifically outlined in the article.

It then lists the first order of business, the second order of business, 
that _formalities_ may be waived by the convention body, and that 
election rules are to be done elsewhere.

There is no authority for the Executive Committee to alter anything 
else. Anything abridging or altering RONR outside of the specific 
exceptions is not Constitutional.

By default, RONR gives the convention body the right to alter 
thresholds, such as the threshold for a motion to suspend the rules or 
to amend an agenda.  But the bylaws prevent this, codifying a hard 
2/3rds threshold. The 2/3rds does indeed address amending the agenda 
after it's been passed.  But what if the convention body wants motions 
to suspend the rules to be lower than 2/3rds? Normally, that's their 
right under RONR. The bylaws have taken away the convention body's 
ability to decide that threshold, and done so outside convention without 
consent of the convention body.

The bylaws amend the rules set under RONR by taking away the ability to 
amend this threshold, and therefore violate Article VII.




Additionally, Bylaw 900.5.8 specifically says that the agenda to be 
presented voted upon by the delegates is the agenda provided in the 
notice.  However, we are now advertising a different agenda as the 
proposed agenda.  This does a disservice to the delegates.  It is NOT 
what they are to vote on, per the Bylaws.  We're just advertising some 
other agenda that, yes, a majority of Execomm voted for, but the 
majority of Execomm has no authority to even make the proposed agenda or 
to have presented to convention delegates.




Here's my proposal -- since the Rules Committee didn't get their report 
in on time, and since the Execomm wants to amend the agenda, and because 
the bylaws alter the rights of delegates in convention, and because the 
bylaws were supposed to be "temporary"...  Let's repeal bylaws sections 
900 and 1100.  We have RONR to fall back on, it's what we did up until 
2017, and there's no good reason to give delegates had full control of 
_their_ convention.  We follow the Constitution, and we roll with it.  
It will avoid a mess at the beginning of the convention, as I make 
motions to alter agendas to wipe out those restrictions.



---
Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
LPKY State Party Treasurer

On 2019-02-04 11:47, Harlen R. Compton wrote:
> I think I may be missing what you're getting at.  Bylaw 900.5.8 sets
> the default agenda to that which was provided in notice (the
> pre-amended agenda).  900.5.X is about the CONVENTION BODY not the
> State Executive Committee.  The convention body may adopt the agenda
> submitted by the Chair, or may amend it, in any case it is
> amended/adopted by a simple majority.  The "2/3" you were speaking of
> is to amend the agenda after it has been adopted by the delegates in
> convention.
> 
> I concur that 900.5.8 requires that this "default agenda" be the one
> that was provided in the notice to the delegates and that we have to
> start from there.  However, a majority of the state executive
> committee voted to shift the agenda around and I suspect that it is
> harmless error to have the revised agenda on the website because one
> of the first things that is going to happen at convention is to amend
> the agenda to be what we voted on last week.  I think it may be more
> informative that posting the original agenda knowing how likely things
> are to be amended.  We could change it back, but to what end?  The
> agenda on the website isn't binding at all and is meant to assist
> delegates in making plans.
> 
> As to the language of 900.5.X (and also 1100) being
> "unconstitutional", I disagree.  Yes, the convention "shall" be
> governed by RONR.  It is RONR that provides guidance on the
> interpretation of governing documents and the use of affirmative
> language (i.e. "shall") with regard to committees and that guidance
> from RONR is what created the impetus to section 1100 to reign some of
> the Rules Committee's responsibilities in.  RONR governs the
> convention, and RONR itself gives deference to the party's governing
> documents.  To say that something is unconstitutional because it
> supersedes RONR in convention would also be to say that the rest of
> the Constitution and Bylaws that cover anything that *could* be acted
> on in convention are illegal except for Article VII Section 5 of the
> Constitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 2019-02-04 01:54, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm wrote:
>> I'd like to get a ruling from the chair on this...
>> 
>> 
>> Does section 900.5.x violate the Constitution, or did the motion to
>> re-arrange the convention agenda violate bylaw 900.5.8?  Because from
>> what I can see, it's one or the other.
>> 
>> Also, if 900.5.x violates the Constitution, I think that means section
>> 1100 violates it as well, since they both affect the conduct of a
>> convention, and the Constitution says it's run by RONR except where
>> outlined.
>> 
>> It does a disservice to members if we have the wrong (illegal) agenda
>> posted to the website. So this needs a ruling.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> For reference, here is the constitution, saying that RONR runs
>> conventions except the order amendments as outlined in the
>> Constitution:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ARTICLE VII: CONVENTIONS
>> 
>> Section 5. Conduct of Convention
>> 
>> A. Robert’s Rules of Order, shall govern the conduct of all
>> conventions, except as set forth in this section;
>> 
>> B. The first order of business shall be the credentialing of all
>> Voting Members to the Convention, which shall be determined in
>> accordance with the rules established for the convention (which may
>> include, by way of example, use of the Membership Committee or a
>> Credentials Committee), and the Elections Committee, insofar as voting
>> for nominations for candidates to public office are concerned;
>> 
>> C. The second order of business shall be the election of a Convention
>> Chair and Secretary; the Secretary shall keep minutes reflecting
>> actions taken at the convention. The Chair shall be the Executive
>> Committee Chair unless not present, or removed by a three-fifths (3/5)
>> vote of the convention body. The Secretary of the Executive Committee
>> shall be the Secretary of the Convention, unless not present, or
>> removed by a three-fifths (3/5) vote of the convention body, The Chair
>> shall be entitled to employ or utilize a parliamentarian to assist on
>> matters of procedure.
>> 
>> D. The Party, in Convention, shall have the ability to waive, by
>> three-fifths (3/5) vote, any and all formalities, notice requirements,
>> and legalities related to any question arising under this
>> Constitution, except for questions arising under rules enacted by the
>> Elections Committee for nominations for candidates to public office,
>> which questions are reserved to the Elections Committee, and is
>> encouraged to do so provided such requirements are determined by the
>> Party, in Convention, to be substantially complied with.
>> 
>> E. Any nomination of candidates shall be as set forth in Article VIII,
>> below, and shall be complied with.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---
>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>> LPKY State Party Treasurer
>> 
>> On 2019-01-31 16:12, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm wrote:
>>> Actually, it looks like 900.5 may contain unconstitutional language:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ARTICLE VII: CONVENTIONS
>>> 
>>> Section 5. Conduct of Convention
>>> 
>>> Robert’s Rules of Order, shall govern the conduct of all conventions,
>>> except as set forth in this section;
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The use of the word "shall" means it is not an option.  So if 
>>> anything
>>> trumps RONR in Bylaws that doesn't conform to the specific exemptions
>>> in the Constitution then it's invalid.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>> LPKY State Party Treasurer
>>> 
>>> On 2019-01-31 15:05, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm wrote:
>>>> FYI - here's that language I was concerned about when we discussed
>>>> amending the agenda:  "The agenda shall be the agenda that was 
>>>> provided
>>>> in the notice for the Convention".  We had a vote, but the vote did 
>>>> not
>>>> have the vote threshold of 3/5ths under Bylaw 1200 to waive Bylaw
>>>> 900.5.8.
>>>> 
>>>> 900.5.8        The fourth order of business by the Chair shall be
>>>> presentation of the agenda for additional business.  THE AGENDA 
>>>> SHALL BE
>>>> THE AGENDA THAT WAS PROVIDED IN THE NOTICE for the Convention that 
>>>> was
>>>> given by the Chair of the Executive Committee of the State Party.  
>>>> The
>>>> convention body may debate, adopt or amend such agenda, by a simple
>>>> majority vote.  Once adopted, the agenda may not be modified, or its
>>>> order of business deviated from, except by a motion to suspend the
>>>> orders of the day, WHICH MUST PASS BY A 2/3 VOTE.
>>>> 
>>>> And there's also a codified 2/3rds threshold.  What if the body 
>>>> wants to
>>>> make a motion to suspend only be 60%, or 55%, or even 50%?  We can't
>>>> suspend the bylaws, so we can't lower that particular codified 
>>>> threshold
>>>> even though the body can otherwise adjust any other threshold to
>>>> suspend.  This is creating a restriction on the body outside 
>>>> convention.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Again, I suggest that we should gut bylaw 900.  At a minimum, the 
>>>> 2/3rds
>>>> threshold should be removed, and barring other action, the original
>>>> agenda restored.
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>>> LPKY State Party Treasurer
>>>> _______________________________________________
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