I motion that we call a organizing convention for the sixth district on Saturday August 31st, 1 pm, at the Lexington Public Library, North side Branch. We have the medium conference room from 1 pm until 3 pm. Randall Daniel
Second. We need to move VERY fast on this. If we cannot get a vote on this today then we need an emergency Exec call tonight, or alternately the date will have to be pushed. I think we almost have to do an emergency Exec call at this point. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky On 2019-07-31 12:37, randall.daniel--- via Lpk-execomm wrote:
I motion that we call a organizing convention for the sixth district on Saturday August 31st, 1 pm, at the Lexington Public Library, North side Branch. We have the medium conference room from 1 pm until 3 pm.
Randall Daniel _______________________________________________ Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
The motion has been made and seconded. By what I am presuming is unanimous consent (and any member may object in which case I will suspend voting and open this to discussion as required by the operating rules), I am ending discussion on this and opening voting. Email voting is opened (unless there is an objection to my ending discussion early, in which case I will suspend further voting). In the interest of timeliness, I will end voting at the earlier of: (I) all members having voted; or (II) a majority of the entire committee voting yes or no. For the record, I vote aye. Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 31, 2019, at 12:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote:
Second.
We need to move VERY fast on this. If we cannot get a vote on this today then we need an emergency Exec call tonight, or alternately the date will have to be pushed. I think we almost have to do an emergency Exec call at this point.
--- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 12:37, randall.daniel--- via Lpk-execomm wrote: I motion that we call a organizing convention for the sixth district on Saturday August 31st, 1 pm, at the Lexington Public Library, North side Branch. We have the medium conference room from 1 pm until 3 pm. Randall Daniel _______________________________________________ Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Aye Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 12:09 PM, Chris Wiest via Lpk-execomm<lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote: The motion has been made and seconded. By what I am presuming is unanimous consent (and any member may object in which case I will suspend voting and open this to discussion as required by the operating rules), I am ending discussion on this and opening voting. Email voting is opened (unless there is an objection to my ending discussion early, in which case I will suspend further voting). In the interest of timeliness, I will end voting at the earlier of: (I) all members having voted; or (II) a majority of the entire committee voting yes or no. For the record, I vote aye. Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 31, 2019, at 12:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote:
Second.
We need to move VERY fast on this. If we cannot get a vote on this today then we need an emergency Exec call tonight, or alternately the date will have to be pushed. I think we almost have to do an emergency Exec call at this point.
--- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 12:37, randall.daniel--- via Lpk-execomm wrote: I motion that we call a organizing convention for the sixth district on Saturday August 31st, 1 pm, at the Lexington Public Library, North side Branch. We have the medium conference room from 1 pm until 3 pm. Randall Daniel _______________________________________________ Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
_______________________________________________ Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
AYE Randall On 2019-07-31 13:13, David Watson via Lpk-execomm wrote:
Aye
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 12:09 PM, Chris Wiest via Lpk-execomm<lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote: The motion has been made and seconded.
By what I am presuming is unanimous consent (and any member may object in which case I will suspend voting and open this to discussion as required by the operating rules), I am ending discussion on this and opening voting.
Email voting is opened (unless there is an objection to my ending discussion early, in which case I will suspend further voting).
In the interest of timeliness, I will end voting at the earlier of: (I) all members having voted; or (II) a majority of the entire committee voting yes or no.
For the record, I vote aye.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 31, 2019, at 12:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote:
Second.
We need to move VERY fast on this. If we cannot get a vote on this today then we need an emergency Exec call tonight, or alternately the date will have to be pushed. I think we almost have to do an emergency Exec call at this point.
--- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 12:37, randall.daniel--- via Lpk-execomm wrote: I motion that we call a organizing convention for the sixth district on Saturday August 31st, 1 pm, at the Lexington Public Library, North side Branch. We have the medium conference room from 1 pm until 3 pm. Randall Daniel _______________________________________________ Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
_______________________________________________ Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
_______________________________________________ Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Aye On 07/31/2019 01:38 PM, randall.daniel--- via Lpk-execomm wrote:
AYE Randall
On 2019-07-31 13:13, David Watson via Lpk-execomm wrote:
Aye
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 12:09 PM, Chris Wiest via Lpk-execomm<lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote: The motion has been made and seconded.
By what I am presuming is unanimous consent (and any member may object in which case I will suspend voting and open this to discussion as required by the operating rules), I am ending discussion on this and opening voting.
Email voting is opened (unless there is an objection to my ending discussion early, in which case I will suspend further voting).
In the interest of timeliness, I will end voting at the earlier of: (I) all members having voted; or (II) a majority of the entire committee voting yes or no.
For the record, I vote aye.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 31, 2019, at 12:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote:
Second.
We need to move VERY fast on this. If we cannot get a vote on this today then we need an emergency Exec call tonight, or alternately the date will have to be pushed. I think we almost have to do an emergency Exec call at this point.
--- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 12:37, randall.daniel--- via Lpk-execomm wrote: I motion that we call a organizing convention for the sixth district on Saturday August 31st, 1 pm, at the Lexington Public Library, North side Branch. We have the medium conference room from 1 pm until 3 pm. Randall Daniel _______________________________________________ Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
_______________________________________________ Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
_______________________________________________ Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
_______________________________________________ Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Aye. But the timing of this should not set precedent for future email ballots. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky On 2019-07-31 13:09, Chris Wiest wrote:
The motion has been made and seconded.
By what I am presuming is unanimous consent (and any member may object in which case I will suspend voting and open this to discussion as required by the operating rules), I am ending discussion on this and opening voting.
Email voting is opened (unless there is an objection to my ending discussion early, in which case I will suspend further voting).
In the interest of timeliness, I will end voting at the earlier of: (I) all members having voted; or (II) a majority of the entire committee voting yes or no.
For the record, I vote aye.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 31, 2019, at 12:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote:
Second.
We need to move VERY fast on this. If we cannot get a vote on this today then we need an emergency Exec call tonight, or alternately the date will have to be pushed. I think we almost have to do an emergency Exec call at this point.
--- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 12:37, randall.daniel--- via Lpk-execomm wrote: I motion that we call a organizing convention for the sixth district on Saturday August 31st, 1 pm, at the Lexington Public Library, North side Branch. We have the medium conference room from 1 pm until 3 pm. Randall Daniel _______________________________________________ Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
As a reminder on the rules of email ballots.... A) The State Party Executive Committee shall provide and manage an official mailing list for electronic discussion and voting to every committee of the Party, made viewable to Voting Members, using official LPKY.org email addresses assigned by the State Party. 1) No more than two (2) motions by electronic mail shall be considered by a committee at the same time. A committee member may introduce a motion by opening a distinct thread on the appropriate mailing list. The subject line must begin with “MOTION:” in capital letters, followed by subject in normal case. 2) Discussion may begin once another member has seconded the motion. A motion is considered failed if it is not seconded within two (2) business days. 3) The question will automatically be called, unless tabled to the next special or regular meeting, by a vote of one third (1/3) or more of the committee, after one (1) full business day with no discussion, or five (5) business days after the motion was seconded, whichever comes first. Once the question has been called, members shall have two (2) business days to vote. 4) No action shall be considered passed without a vote of the majority of all seated members of that committee. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky On 2019-07-31 13:55, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm wrote:
Aye. But the timing of this should not set precedent for future email ballots.
--- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 13:09, Chris Wiest wrote:
The motion has been made and seconded.
By what I am presuming is unanimous consent (and any member may object in which case I will suspend voting and open this to discussion as required by the operating rules), I am ending discussion on this and opening voting.
Email voting is opened (unless there is an objection to my ending discussion early, in which case I will suspend further voting).
In the interest of timeliness, I will end voting at the earlier of: (I) all members having voted; or (II) a majority of the entire committee voting yes or no.
For the record, I vote aye.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 31, 2019, at 12:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote:
Second.
We need to move VERY fast on this. If we cannot get a vote on this today then we need an emergency Exec call tonight, or alternately the date will have to be pushed. I think we almost have to do an emergency Exec call at this point.
--- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 12:37, randall.daniel--- via Lpk-execomm wrote: I motion that we call a organizing convention for the sixth district on Saturday August 31st, 1 pm, at the Lexington Public Library, North side Branch. We have the medium conference room from 1 pm until 3 pm. Randall Daniel _______________________________________________ Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Mr. Moellman, I am aware of the rules. I am also aware of my discretion as chair to handle matters by unanimous consent. We are ending discussion by unanimous consent (unless someone objects), though a 1/3 formal vote could be sufficient to do so. Unless there is an objection. Please confirm, for the record, that you are not raising an objection to our ending discussion early. Sent from my iPad
On Jul 31, 2019, at 1:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote:
As a reminder on the rules of email ballots....
A) The State Party Executive Committee shall provide and manage an official mailing list for electronic discussion and voting to every committee of the Party, made viewable to Voting Members, using official LPKY.org email addresses assigned by the State Party. 1) No more than two (2) motions by electronic mail shall be considered by a committee at the same time. A committee member may introduce a motion by opening a distinct thread on the appropriate mailing list. The subject line must begin with “MOTION:” in capital letters, followed by subject in normal case. 2) Discussion may begin once another member has seconded the motion. A motion is considered failed if it is not seconded within two (2) business days. 3) The question will automatically be called, unless tabled to the next special or regular meeting, by a vote of one third (1/3) or more of the committee, after one (1) full business day with no discussion, or five (5) business days after the motion was seconded, whichever comes first. Once the question has been called, members shall have two (2) business days to vote. 4) No action shall be considered passed without a vote of the majority of all seated members of that committee.
--- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 13:55, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm wrote: Aye. But the timing of this should not set precedent for future email ballots. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 13:09, Chris Wiest wrote: The motion has been made and seconded. By what I am presuming is unanimous consent (and any member may object in which case I will suspend voting and open this to discussion as required by the operating rules), I am ending discussion on this and opening voting. Email voting is opened (unless there is an objection to my ending discussion early, in which case I will suspend further voting). In the interest of timeliness, I will end voting at the earlier of: (I) all members having voted; or (II) a majority of the entire committee voting yes or no. For the record, I vote aye. Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 31, 2019, at 12:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote: Second. We need to move VERY fast on this. If we cannot get a vote on this today then we need an emergency Exec call tonight, or alternately the date will have to be pushed. I think we almost have to do an emergency Exec call at this point. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 12:37, randall.daniel--- via Lpk-execomm wrote: I motion that we call a organizing convention for the sixth district on Saturday August 31st, 1 pm, at the Lexington Public Library, North side Branch. We have the medium conference room from 1 pm until 3 pm. Randall Daniel _______________________________________________ Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
I am not raising objection in this case, but also asking that this sort of emergency-vote-by-email not become the norm. The process of voting by email is outlined in a way that is intentionally meant to allow debate and to allow everyone to have a say. It is, by its nature, slower than an in-person or teleconference meeting. Emergencies are better handled by conference call, which is section B of the same operating rule (though that language needs some clean-up). To set precedent, to permit voting in this way, would allow for ram-rodding. In this case, this isn't an issue that is controversial in any way, but this should not be the precedent going forward. That is my point. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky On 2019-07-31 14:11, Chris Wiest wrote:
Mr. Moellman,
I am aware of the rules. I am also aware of my discretion as chair to handle matters by unanimous consent. We are ending discussion by unanimous consent (unless someone objects), though a 1/3 formal vote could be sufficient to do so.
Unless there is an objection.
Please confirm, for the record, that you are not raising an objection to our ending discussion early.
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 31, 2019, at 1:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote:
As a reminder on the rules of email ballots....
A) The State Party Executive Committee shall provide and manage an official mailing list for electronic discussion and voting to every committee of the Party, made viewable to Voting Members, using official LPKY.org email addresses assigned by the State Party. 1) No more than two (2) motions by electronic mail shall be considered by a committee at the same time. A committee member may introduce a motion by opening a distinct thread on the appropriate mailing list. The subject line must begin with “MOTION:” in capital letters, followed by subject in normal case. 2) Discussion may begin once another member has seconded the motion. A motion is considered failed if it is not seconded within two (2) business days. 3) The question will automatically be called, unless tabled to the next special or regular meeting, by a vote of one third (1/3) or more of the committee, after one (1) full business day with no discussion, or five (5) business days after the motion was seconded, whichever comes first. Once the question has been called, members shall have two (2) business days to vote. 4) No action shall be considered passed without a vote of the majority of all seated members of that committee.
--- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 13:55, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm wrote: Aye. But the timing of this should not set precedent for future email ballots. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 13:09, Chris Wiest wrote: The motion has been made and seconded. By what I am presuming is unanimous consent (and any member may object in which case I will suspend voting and open this to discussion as required by the operating rules), I am ending discussion on this and opening voting. Email voting is opened (unless there is an objection to my ending discussion early, in which case I will suspend further voting). In the interest of timeliness, I will end voting at the earlier of: (I) all members having voted; or (II) a majority of the entire committee voting yes or no. For the record, I vote aye. Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 31, 2019, at 12:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote: Second. We need to move VERY fast on this. If we cannot get a vote on this today then we need an emergency Exec call tonight, or alternately the date will have to be pushed. I think we almost have to do an emergency Exec call at this point. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 12:37, randall.daniel--- via Lpk-execomm wrote: I motion that we call a organizing convention for the sixth district on Saturday August 31st, 1 pm, at the Lexington Public Library, North side Branch. We have the medium conference room from 1 pm until 3 pm. Randall Daniel _______________________________________________ Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
I get it. I do disagree with you about the best way to get to a vote. Quorum on last minute emergency issues is always dicey at best. You are asking people to drop everything they are doing, or otherwise have planned, with little to no notice, and to make a telephone call. That has not typically been overly successful. If I called a meeting tonight, at 9 p.m., maybe we get a quorum, but probably we do not. If we do not, then I have to try again for tomorrow. Again, maybe we have quorum, maybe not. And if no quorum tomorrow night, we don't hit the 30 day notice requirement, and then the entire convention has to be replanned. Which is the very thing we are trying to avoid. An email ballot, particularly for in between meeting emergencies, is the best bet of getting quorum and a vote accomplished (assuming we can get people to vote by email -- and think about it -- email is easier to do than making a call with no notice). As when Harlen was the chair, I generally dislike business by email. It hasn't been my, or our practice to do so to date, except in emergencies with pressing timing concerns. I tend to think we need to keep to the standard of "emergencies with pressing timing concerns" for email ballots and in terms of precedents. That said, this seems like an emergency with a pressing timing concern. -----Original Message----- From: Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 2:50 PM To: Chris Wiest <chris@cwiestlaw.com> Cc: lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org Subject: Re: [Lpk-execomm] MOTION Motion to call D6 organizing convention I am not raising objection in this case, but also asking that this sort of emergency-vote-by-email not become the norm. The process of voting by email is outlined in a way that is intentionally meant to allow debate and to allow everyone to have a say. It is, by its nature, slower than an in-person or teleconference meeting. Emergencies are better handled by conference call, which is section B of the same operating rule (though that language needs some clean-up). To set precedent, to permit voting in this way, would allow for ram-rodding. In this case, this isn't an issue that is controversial in any way, but this should not be the precedent going forward. That is my point. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky On 2019-07-31 14:11, Chris Wiest wrote:
Mr. Moellman,
I am aware of the rules. I am also aware of my discretion as chair to handle matters by unanimous consent. We are ending discussion by unanimous consent (unless someone objects), though a 1/3 formal vote could be sufficient to do so.
Unless there is an objection.
Please confirm, for the record, that you are not raising an objection to our ending discussion early.
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 31, 2019, at 1:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote:
As a reminder on the rules of email ballots....
A) The State Party Executive Committee shall provide and manage an official mailing list for electronic discussion and voting to every committee of the Party, made viewable to Voting Members, using official LPKY.org email addresses assigned by the State Party. 1) No more than two (2) motions by electronic mail shall be considered by a committee at the same time. A committee member may introduce a motion by opening a distinct thread on the appropriate mailing list. The subject line must begin with “MOTION:” in capital letters, followed by subject in normal case. 2) Discussion may begin once another member has seconded the motion. A motion is considered failed if it is not seconded within two (2) business days. 3) The question will automatically be called, unless tabled to the next special or regular meeting, by a vote of one third (1/3) or more of the committee, after one (1) full business day with no discussion, or five (5) business days after the motion was seconded, whichever comes first. Once the question has been called, members shall have two (2) business days to vote. 4) No action shall be considered passed without a vote of the majority of all seated members of that committee.
--- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 13:55, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm wrote: Aye. But the timing of this should not set precedent for future email ballots. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 13:09, Chris Wiest wrote: The motion has been made and seconded. By what I am presuming is unanimous consent (and any member may object in which case I will suspend voting and open this to discussion as required by the operating rules), I am ending discussion on this and opening voting. Email voting is opened (unless there is an objection to my ending discussion early, in which case I will suspend further voting). In the interest of timeliness, I will end voting at the earlier of: (I) all members having voted; or (II) a majority of the entire committee voting yes or no. For the record, I vote aye. Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 31, 2019, at 12:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote: Second. We need to move VERY fast on this. If we cannot get a vote on this today then we need an emergency Exec call tonight, or alternately the date will have to be pushed. I think we almost have to do an emergency Exec call at this point. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 12:37, randall.daniel--- via Lpk-execomm wrote: I motion that we call a organizing convention for the sixth district on Saturday August 31st, 1 pm, at the Lexington Public Library, North side Branch. We have the medium conference room from 1 pm until 3 pm. Randall Daniel _______________________________________________ Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
We're distracting from the vote... But I think we have a majority at this point anyway. The reason why RONR doesn't have electronic meetings at all is because it's always dicey. Part of parliamentary procedure is to ensure that all voices are heard, points are deliberated, and then a vote happens. I've talked to one of the board of directors of RONR about this very subject, and that's the reason he gave as to why they still forbid it in RONR and it requires bylaws (in the generic use of the term) to override RONR. I think there's a way to make electronic meetings work. Our current rules are decent, but there should be time for discussion. On a call, or in person, that discussion happens real-time, so it's possible to dissent and have others consider that dissent. Email is delayed timing. In contrast to your preference, I personally prefer to use email ballots for things that are not an emergency and easy to pass. We also don't necessarily need 2 meetings per month in that scenario, either. Just my thoughts on the matter... --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky On 2019-07-31 15:08, chris@cwiestlaw.com wrote:
I get it.
I do disagree with you about the best way to get to a vote.
Quorum on last minute emergency issues is always dicey at best. You are asking people to drop everything they are doing, or otherwise have planned, with little to no notice, and to make a telephone call. That has not typically been overly successful.
If I called a meeting tonight, at 9 p.m., maybe we get a quorum, but probably we do not. If we do not, then I have to try again for tomorrow. Again, maybe we have quorum, maybe not. And if no quorum tomorrow night, we don't hit the 30 day notice requirement, and then the entire convention has to be replanned. Which is the very thing we are trying to avoid.
An email ballot, particularly for in between meeting emergencies, is the best bet of getting quorum and a vote accomplished (assuming we can get people to vote by email -- and think about it -- email is easier to do than making a call with no notice).
As when Harlen was the chair, I generally dislike business by email. It hasn't been my, or our practice to do so to date, except in emergencies with pressing timing concerns. I tend to think we need to keep to the standard of "emergencies with pressing timing concerns" for email ballots and in terms of precedents.
That said, this seems like an emergency with a pressing timing concern.
-----Original Message----- From: Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 2:50 PM To: Chris Wiest <chris@cwiestlaw.com> Cc: lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org Subject: Re: [Lpk-execomm] MOTION Motion to call D6 organizing convention
I am not raising objection in this case, but also asking that this sort of emergency-vote-by-email not become the norm.
The process of voting by email is outlined in a way that is intentionally meant to allow debate and to allow everyone to have a say. It is, by its nature, slower than an in-person or teleconference meeting. Emergencies are better handled by conference call, which is section B of the same operating rule (though that language needs some clean-up).
To set precedent, to permit voting in this way, would allow for ram-rodding. In this case, this isn't an issue that is controversial in any way, but this should not be the precedent going forward. That is my point.
--- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 14:11, Chris Wiest wrote:
Mr. Moellman,
I am aware of the rules. I am also aware of my discretion as chair to handle matters by unanimous consent. We are ending discussion by unanimous consent (unless someone objects), though a 1/3 formal vote could be sufficient to do so.
Unless there is an objection.
Please confirm, for the record, that you are not raising an objection to our ending discussion early.
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 31, 2019, at 1:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote:
As a reminder on the rules of email ballots....
A) The State Party Executive Committee shall provide and manage an official mailing list for electronic discussion and voting to every committee of the Party, made viewable to Voting Members, using official LPKY.org email addresses assigned by the State Party. 1) No more than two (2) motions by electronic mail shall be considered by a committee at the same time. A committee member may introduce a motion by opening a distinct thread on the appropriate mailing list. The subject line must begin with “MOTION:” in capital letters, followed by subject in normal case. 2) Discussion may begin once another member has seconded the motion. A motion is considered failed if it is not seconded within two (2) business days. 3) The question will automatically be called, unless tabled to the next special or regular meeting, by a vote of one third (1/3) or more of the committee, after one (1) full business day with no discussion, or five (5) business days after the motion was seconded, whichever comes first. Once the question has been called, members shall have two (2) business days to vote. 4) No action shall be considered passed without a vote of the majority of all seated members of that committee.
--- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 13:55, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm wrote: Aye. But the timing of this should not set precedent for future email ballots. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 13:09, Chris Wiest wrote: The motion has been made and seconded. By what I am presuming is unanimous consent (and any member may object in which case I will suspend voting and open this to discussion as required by the operating rules), I am ending discussion on this and opening voting. Email voting is opened (unless there is an objection to my ending discussion early, in which case I will suspend further voting). In the interest of timeliness, I will end voting at the earlier of: (I) all members having voted; or (II) a majority of the entire committee voting yes or no. For the record, I vote aye. Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 31, 2019, at 12:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote: Second. We need to move VERY fast on this. If we cannot get a vote on this today then we need an emergency Exec call tonight, or alternately the date will have to be pushed. I think we almost have to do an emergency Exec call at this point. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky > On 2019-07-31 12:37, randall.daniel--- via Lpk-execomm wrote: > I motion that we call a organizing convention for the sixth > district on Saturday August 31st, 1 pm, at the Lexington Public > Library, North side Branch. > We have the medium conference room from 1 pm until 3 pm. > Randall Daniel > _______________________________________________ > Lpk-execomm mailing list > Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org > http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm _______________________________________________ Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
We do not have a majority yet. There are currently five votes in favor. Still need one of the following: the Vice Chair, Secretary, Treasurer, or one of the two at large votes to be made. We need one more vote.... Sent from my iPad
On Jul 31, 2019, at 6:38 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
We're distracting from the vote... But I think we have a majority at this point anyway.
The reason why RONR doesn't have electronic meetings at all is because it's always dicey. Part of parliamentary procedure is to ensure that all voices are heard, points are deliberated, and then a vote happens. I've talked to one of the board of directors of RONR about this very subject, and that's the reason he gave as to why they still forbid it in RONR and it requires bylaws (in the generic use of the term) to override RONR.
I think there's a way to make electronic meetings work. Our current rules are decent, but there should be time for discussion. On a call, or in person, that discussion happens real-time, so it's possible to dissent and have others consider that dissent. Email is delayed timing.
In contrast to your preference, I personally prefer to use email ballots for things that are not an emergency and easy to pass. We also don't necessarily need 2 meetings per month in that scenario, either.
Just my thoughts on the matter...
--- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 15:08, chris@cwiestlaw.com wrote: I get it. I do disagree with you about the best way to get to a vote. Quorum on last minute emergency issues is always dicey at best. You are asking people to drop everything they are doing, or otherwise have planned, with little to no notice, and to make a telephone call. That has not typically been overly successful. If I called a meeting tonight, at 9 p.m., maybe we get a quorum, but probably we do not. If we do not, then I have to try again for tomorrow. Again, maybe we have quorum, maybe not. And if no quorum tomorrow night, we don't hit the 30 day notice requirement, and then the entire convention has to be replanned. Which is the very thing we are trying to avoid. An email ballot, particularly for in between meeting emergencies, is the best bet of getting quorum and a vote accomplished (assuming we can get people to vote by email -- and think about it -- email is easier to do than making a call with no notice). As when Harlen was the chair, I generally dislike business by email. It hasn't been my, or our practice to do so to date, except in emergencies with pressing timing concerns. I tend to think we need to keep to the standard of "emergencies with pressing timing concerns" for email ballots and in terms of precedents. That said, this seems like an emergency with a pressing timing concern. -----Original Message----- From: Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 2:50 PM To: Chris Wiest <chris@cwiestlaw.com> Cc: lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org Subject: Re: [Lpk-execomm] MOTION Motion to call D6 organizing convention I am not raising objection in this case, but also asking that this sort of emergency-vote-by-email not become the norm. The process of voting by email is outlined in a way that is intentionally meant to allow debate and to allow everyone to have a say. It is, by its nature, slower than an in-person or teleconference meeting. Emergencies are better handled by conference call, which is section B of the same operating rule (though that language needs some clean-up). To set precedent, to permit voting in this way, would allow for ram-rodding. In this case, this isn't an issue that is controversial in any way, but this should not be the precedent going forward. That is my point. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 14:11, Chris Wiest wrote: Mr. Moellman, I am aware of the rules. I am also aware of my discretion as chair to handle matters by unanimous consent. We are ending discussion by unanimous consent (unless someone objects), though a 1/3 formal vote could be sufficient to do so. Unless there is an objection. Please confirm, for the record, that you are not raising an objection to our ending discussion early. Sent from my iPad
On Jul 31, 2019, at 1:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote: As a reminder on the rules of email ballots.... A) The State Party Executive Committee shall provide and manage an official mailing list for electronic discussion and voting to every committee of the Party, made viewable to Voting Members, using official LPKY.org email addresses assigned by the State Party. 1) No more than two (2) motions by electronic mail shall be considered by a committee at the same time. A committee member may introduce a motion by opening a distinct thread on the appropriate mailing list. The subject line must begin with “MOTION:” in capital letters, followed by subject in normal case. 2) Discussion may begin once another member has seconded the motion. A motion is considered failed if it is not seconded within two (2) business days. 3) The question will automatically be called, unless tabled to the next special or regular meeting, by a vote of one third (1/3) or more of the committee, after one (1) full business day with no discussion, or five (5) business days after the motion was seconded, whichever comes first. Once the question has been called, members shall have two (2) business days to vote. 4) No action shall be considered passed without a vote of the majority of all seated members of that committee. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 13:55, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm wrote: Aye. But the timing of this should not set precedent for future email ballots. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 13:09, Chris Wiest wrote: The motion has been made and seconded. By what I am presuming is unanimous consent (and any member may object in which case I will suspend voting and open this to discussion as required by the operating rules), I am ending discussion on this and opening voting. Email voting is opened (unless there is an objection to my ending discussion early, in which case I will suspend further voting). In the interest of timeliness, I will end voting at the earlier of: (I) all members having voted; or (II) a majority of the entire committee voting yes or no. For the record, I vote aye. Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 31, 2019, at 12:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm > <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote: > Second. > We need to move VERY fast on this. If we cannot get a vote on > this today then we need an emergency Exec call tonight, or > alternately the date will have to be pushed. I think we almost > have to do an emergency Exec call at this point. > --- > Ken C. Moellman, Jr. > 4th District Chair > State Party IT Director > Libertarian Party of Kentucky >> On 2019-07-31 12:37, randall.daniel--- via Lpk-execomm wrote: >> I motion that we call a organizing convention for the sixth >> district on Saturday August 31st, 1 pm, at the Lexington Public >> Library, North side Branch. >> We have the medium conference room from 1 pm until 3 pm. >> Randall Daniel >> _______________________________________________ >> Lpk-execomm mailing list >> Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org >> http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm > _______________________________________________ > Lpk-execomm mailing list > Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org > http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Aye On 7/31/19 7:05 PM, Chris Wiest via Lpk-execomm wrote:
We do not have a majority yet. There are currently five votes in favor.
Still need one of the following: the Vice Chair, Secretary, Treasurer, or one of the two at large votes to be made.
We need one more vote....
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 31, 2019, at 6:38 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
We're distracting from the vote... But I think we have a majority at this point anyway.
The reason why RONR doesn't have electronic meetings at all is because it's always dicey. Part of parliamentary procedure is to ensure that all voices are heard, points are deliberated, and then a vote happens. I've talked to one of the board of directors of RONR about this very subject, and that's the reason he gave as to why they still forbid it in RONR and it requires bylaws (in the generic use of the term) to override RONR.
I think there's a way to make electronic meetings work. Our current rules are decent, but there should be time for discussion. On a call, or in person, that discussion happens real-time, so it's possible to dissent and have others consider that dissent. Email is delayed timing.
In contrast to your preference, I personally prefer to use email ballots for things that are not an emergency and easy to pass. We also don't necessarily need 2 meetings per month in that scenario, either.
Just my thoughts on the matter...
--- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 15:08, chris@cwiestlaw.com wrote: I get it. I do disagree with you about the best way to get to a vote. Quorum on last minute emergency issues is always dicey at best. You are asking people to drop everything they are doing, or otherwise have planned, with little to no notice, and to make a telephone call. That has not typically been overly successful. If I called a meeting tonight, at 9 p.m., maybe we get a quorum, but probably we do not. If we do not, then I have to try again for tomorrow. Again, maybe we have quorum, maybe not. And if no quorum tomorrow night, we don't hit the 30 day notice requirement, and then the entire convention has to be replanned. Which is the very thing we are trying to avoid. An email ballot, particularly for in between meeting emergencies, is the best bet of getting quorum and a vote accomplished (assuming we can get people to vote by email -- and think about it -- email is easier to do than making a call with no notice). As when Harlen was the chair, I generally dislike business by email. It hasn't been my, or our practice to do so to date, except in emergencies with pressing timing concerns. I tend to think we need to keep to the standard of "emergencies with pressing timing concerns" for email ballots and in terms of precedents. That said, this seems like an emergency with a pressing timing concern. -----Original Message----- From: Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 2:50 PM To: Chris Wiest <chris@cwiestlaw.com> Cc: lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org Subject: Re: [Lpk-execomm] MOTION Motion to call D6 organizing convention I am not raising objection in this case, but also asking that this sort of emergency-vote-by-email not become the norm. The process of voting by email is outlined in a way that is intentionally meant to allow debate and to allow everyone to have a say. It is, by its nature, slower than an in-person or teleconference meeting. Emergencies are better handled by conference call, which is section B of the same operating rule (though that language needs some clean-up). To set precedent, to permit voting in this way, would allow for ram-rodding. In this case, this isn't an issue that is controversial in any way, but this should not be the precedent going forward. That is my point. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 14:11, Chris Wiest wrote: Mr. Moellman, I am aware of the rules. I am also aware of my discretion as chair to handle matters by unanimous consent. We are ending discussion by unanimous consent (unless someone objects), though a 1/3 formal vote could be sufficient to do so. Unless there is an objection. Please confirm, for the record, that you are not raising an objection to our ending discussion early. Sent from my iPad
On Jul 31, 2019, at 1:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote: As a reminder on the rules of email ballots.... A) The State Party Executive Committee shall provide and manage an official mailing list for electronic discussion and voting to every committee of the Party, made viewable to Voting Members, using official LPKY.org email addresses assigned by the State Party. 1) No more than two (2) motions by electronic mail shall be considered by a committee at the same time. A committee member may introduce a motion by opening a distinct thread on the appropriate mailing list. The subject line must begin with “MOTION:” in capital letters, followed by subject in normal case. 2) Discussion may begin once another member has seconded the motion. A motion is considered failed if it is not seconded within two (2) business days. 3) The question will automatically be called, unless tabled to the next special or regular meeting, by a vote of one third (1/3) or more of the committee, after one (1) full business day with no discussion, or five (5) business days after the motion was seconded, whichever comes first. Once the question has been called, members shall have two (2) business days to vote. 4) No action shall be considered passed without a vote of the majority of all seated members of that committee. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 13:55, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm wrote: Aye. But the timing of this should not set precedent for future email ballots. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky > On 2019-07-31 13:09, Chris Wiest wrote: > The motion has been made and seconded. > By what I am presuming is unanimous consent (and any member may > object in which case I will suspend voting and open this to > discussion as required by the operating rules), I am ending > discussion on this and opening voting. > Email voting is opened (unless there is an objection to my ending > discussion early, in which case I will suspend further voting). > In the interest of timeliness, I will end voting at the earlier of: > (I) all members having voted; or (II) a majority of the entire > committee voting yes or no. > For the record, I vote aye. > Sent from my iPhone >> On Jul 31, 2019, at 12:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm >> <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote: >> Second. >> We need to move VERY fast on this. If we cannot get a vote on >> this today then we need an emergency Exec call tonight, or >> alternately the date will have to be pushed. I think we almost >> have to do an emergency Exec call at this point. >> --- >> Ken C. Moellman, Jr. >> 4th District Chair >> State Party IT Director >> Libertarian Party of Kentucky >>> On 2019-07-31 12:37, randall.daniel--- via Lpk-execomm wrote: >>> I motion that we call a organizing convention for the sixth >>> district on Saturday August 31st, 1 pm, at the Lexington Public >>> Library, North side Branch. >>> We have the medium conference room from 1 pm until 3 pm. >>> Randall Daniel >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Lpk-execomm mailing list >>> Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org >>> http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm >> _______________________________________________ >> Lpk-execomm mailing list >> Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org >> http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm _______________________________________________ Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
-- Cristi Kendrick Secretary, Libertarian Party of Kentucky Membership & Outreach Director 502-457-6765
Aye Live Free & Carry On, Bryan S. Short, Vice Chair Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On Jul 31, 2019, at 7:43 PM, Cristi Kendrick via Lpk-execomm <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote:
Aye
On 7/31/19 7:05 PM, Chris Wiest via Lpk-execomm wrote: We do not have a majority yet. There are currently five votes in favor.
Still need one of the following: the Vice Chair, Secretary, Treasurer, or one of the two at large votes to be made.
We need one more vote....
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 31, 2019, at 6:38 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
We're distracting from the vote... But I think we have a majority at this point anyway.
The reason why RONR doesn't have electronic meetings at all is because it's always dicey. Part of parliamentary procedure is to ensure that all voices are heard, points are deliberated, and then a vote happens. I've talked to one of the board of directors of RONR about this very subject, and that's the reason he gave as to why they still forbid it in RONR and it requires bylaws (in the generic use of the term) to override RONR.
I think there's a way to make electronic meetings work. Our current rules are decent, but there should be time for discussion. On a call, or in person, that discussion happens real-time, so it's possible to dissent and have others consider that dissent. Email is delayed timing.
In contrast to your preference, I personally prefer to use email ballots for things that are not an emergency and easy to pass. We also don't necessarily need 2 meetings per month in that scenario, either.
Just my thoughts on the matter...
--- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 15:08, chris@cwiestlaw.com wrote: I get it. I do disagree with you about the best way to get to a vote. Quorum on last minute emergency issues is always dicey at best. You are asking people to drop everything they are doing, or otherwise have planned, with little to no notice, and to make a telephone call. That has not typically been overly successful. If I called a meeting tonight, at 9 p.m., maybe we get a quorum, but probably we do not. If we do not, then I have to try again for tomorrow. Again, maybe we have quorum, maybe not. And if no quorum tomorrow night, we don't hit the 30 day notice requirement, and then the entire convention has to be replanned. Which is the very thing we are trying to avoid. An email ballot, particularly for in between meeting emergencies, is the best bet of getting quorum and a vote accomplished (assuming we can get people to vote by email -- and think about it -- email is easier to do than making a call with no notice). As when Harlen was the chair, I generally dislike business by email. It hasn't been my, or our practice to do so to date, except in emergencies with pressing timing concerns. I tend to think we need to keep to the standard of "emergencies with pressing timing concerns" for email ballots and in terms of precedents. That said, this seems like an emergency with a pressing timing concern. -----Original Message----- From: Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 2:50 PM To: Chris Wiest <chris@cwiestlaw.com> Cc: lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org Subject: Re: [Lpk-execomm] MOTION Motion to call D6 organizing convention I am not raising objection in this case, but also asking that this sort of emergency-vote-by-email not become the norm. The process of voting by email is outlined in a way that is intentionally meant to allow debate and to allow everyone to have a say. It is, by its nature, slower than an in-person or teleconference meeting. Emergencies are better handled by conference call, which is section B of the same operating rule (though that language needs some clean-up). To set precedent, to permit voting in this way, would allow for ram-rodding. In this case, this isn't an issue that is controversial in any way, but this should not be the precedent going forward. That is my point. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 14:11, Chris Wiest wrote: Mr. Moellman, I am aware of the rules. I am also aware of my discretion as chair to handle matters by unanimous consent. We are ending discussion by unanimous consent (unless someone objects), though a 1/3 formal vote could be sufficient to do so. Unless there is an objection. Please confirm, for the record, that you are not raising an objection to our ending discussion early. Sent from my iPad
On Jul 31, 2019, at 1:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote: As a reminder on the rules of email ballots.... A) The State Party Executive Committee shall provide and manage an official mailing list for electronic discussion and voting to every committee of the Party, made viewable to Voting Members, using official LPKY.org email addresses assigned by the State Party. 1) No more than two (2) motions by electronic mail shall be considered by a committee at the same time. A committee member may introduce a motion by opening a distinct thread on the appropriate mailing list. The subject line must begin with “MOTION:” in capital letters, followed by subject in normal case. 2) Discussion may begin once another member has seconded the motion. A motion is considered failed if it is not seconded within two (2) business days. 3) The question will automatically be called, unless tabled to the next special or regular meeting, by a vote of one third (1/3) or more of the committee, after one (1) full business day with no discussion, or five (5) business days after the motion was seconded, whichever comes first. Once the question has been called, members shall have two (2) business days to vote. 4) No action shall be considered passed without a vote of the majority of all seated members of that committee. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky > On 2019-07-31 13:55, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm wrote: > Aye. But the timing of this should not set precedent for future > email ballots. > --- > Ken C. Moellman, Jr. > 4th District Chair > State Party IT Director > Libertarian Party of Kentucky >> On 2019-07-31 13:09, Chris Wiest wrote: >> The motion has been made and seconded. >> By what I am presuming is unanimous consent (and any member may >> object in which case I will suspend voting and open this to >> discussion as required by the operating rules), I am ending >> discussion on this and opening voting. >> Email voting is opened (unless there is an objection to my ending >> discussion early, in which case I will suspend further voting). >> In the interest of timeliness, I will end voting at the earlier of: >> (I) all members having voted; or (II) a majority of the entire >> committee voting yes or no. >> For the record, I vote aye. >> Sent from my iPhone >>> On Jul 31, 2019, at 12:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm >>> <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote: >>> Second. >>> We need to move VERY fast on this. If we cannot get a vote on >>> this today then we need an emergency Exec call tonight, or >>> alternately the date will have to be pushed. I think we almost >>> have to do an emergency Exec call at this point. >>> --- >>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr. >>> 4th District Chair >>> State Party IT Director >>> Libertarian Party of Kentucky >>>> On 2019-07-31 12:37, randall.daniel--- via Lpk-execomm wrote: >>>> I motion that we call a organizing convention for the sixth >>>> district on Saturday August 31st, 1 pm, at the Lexington Public >>>> Library, North side Branch. >>>> We have the medium conference room from 1 pm until 3 pm. >>>> Randall Daniel >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Lpk-execomm mailing list >>>> Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org >>>> http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Lpk-execomm mailing list >>> Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org >>> http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm > _______________________________________________ > Lpk-execomm mailing list > Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org > http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm _______________________________________________ Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
-- Cristi Kendrick Secretary, Libertarian Party of Kentucky Membership & Outreach Director 502-457-6765
_______________________________________________ Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
That's a majority. Are we calling this done, Chris? The notice has to go out TODAY to meet the 30 day requirement. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky On 2019-07-31 22:06, Vice Chairman Bryan Short via Lpk-execomm wrote:
Aye
Live Free & Carry On, Bryan S. Short, Vice Chair Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On Jul 31, 2019, at 7:43 PM, Cristi Kendrick via Lpk-execomm <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote:
Aye
On 7/31/19 7:05 PM, Chris Wiest via Lpk-execomm wrote: We do not have a majority yet. There are currently five votes in favor.
Still need one of the following: the Vice Chair, Secretary, Treasurer, or one of the two at large votes to be made.
We need one more vote....
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 31, 2019, at 6:38 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
We're distracting from the vote... But I think we have a majority at this point anyway.
The reason why RONR doesn't have electronic meetings at all is because it's always dicey. Part of parliamentary procedure is to ensure that all voices are heard, points are deliberated, and then a vote happens. I've talked to one of the board of directors of RONR about this very subject, and that's the reason he gave as to why they still forbid it in RONR and it requires bylaws (in the generic use of the term) to override RONR.
I think there's a way to make electronic meetings work. Our current rules are decent, but there should be time for discussion. On a call, or in person, that discussion happens real-time, so it's possible to dissent and have others consider that dissent. Email is delayed timing.
In contrast to your preference, I personally prefer to use email ballots for things that are not an emergency and easy to pass. We also don't necessarily need 2 meetings per month in that scenario, either.
Just my thoughts on the matter...
--- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 15:08, chris@cwiestlaw.com wrote: I get it. I do disagree with you about the best way to get to a vote. Quorum on last minute emergency issues is always dicey at best. You are asking people to drop everything they are doing, or otherwise have planned, with little to no notice, and to make a telephone call. That has not typically been overly successful. If I called a meeting tonight, at 9 p.m., maybe we get a quorum, but probably we do not. If we do not, then I have to try again for tomorrow. Again, maybe we have quorum, maybe not. And if no quorum tomorrow night, we don't hit the 30 day notice requirement, and then the entire convention has to be replanned. Which is the very thing we are trying to avoid. An email ballot, particularly for in between meeting emergencies, is the best bet of getting quorum and a vote accomplished (assuming we can get people to vote by email -- and think about it -- email is easier to do than making a call with no notice). As when Harlen was the chair, I generally dislike business by email. It hasn't been my, or our practice to do so to date, except in emergencies with pressing timing concerns. I tend to think we need to keep to the standard of "emergencies with pressing timing concerns" for email ballots and in terms of precedents. That said, this seems like an emergency with a pressing timing concern. -----Original Message----- From: Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 2:50 PM To: Chris Wiest <chris@cwiestlaw.com> Cc: lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org Subject: Re: [Lpk-execomm] MOTION Motion to call D6 organizing convention I am not raising objection in this case, but also asking that this sort of emergency-vote-by-email not become the norm. The process of voting by email is outlined in a way that is intentionally meant to allow debate and to allow everyone to have a say. It is, by its nature, slower than an in-person or teleconference meeting. Emergencies are better handled by conference call, which is section B of the same operating rule (though that language needs some clean-up). To set precedent, to permit voting in this way, would allow for ram-rodding. In this case, this isn't an issue that is controversial in any way, but this should not be the precedent going forward. That is my point. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 14:11, Chris Wiest wrote: Mr. Moellman, I am aware of the rules. I am also aware of my discretion as chair to handle matters by unanimous consent. We are ending discussion by unanimous consent (unless someone objects), though a 1/3 formal vote could be sufficient to do so. Unless there is an objection. Please confirm, for the record, that you are not raising an objection to our ending discussion early. Sent from my iPad > On Jul 31, 2019, at 1:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm > <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote: > As a reminder on the rules of email ballots.... > A) The State Party Executive Committee shall provide and manage > an > official mailing list for electronic discussion and voting to > every > committee of the Party, made viewable to Voting Members, using > official LPKY.org email addresses assigned by the State Party. > 1) No more than two (2) motions by electronic mail shall be > considered by a committee at the same time. A committee member > may > introduce a motion by opening a distinct thread on the > appropriate > mailing list. The subject line must begin with “MOTION:” > in capital letters, > followed by subject in normal case. > 2) Discussion may begin once another member has seconded the > motion. > A motion is considered failed if it is not seconded within two > (2) > business days. > 3) The question will automatically be called, unless tabled to > the > next special or regular meeting, by a vote of one third (1/3) or > more > of the committee, after one (1) full business day with no > discussion, > or five (5) business days after the motion was seconded, > whichever > comes first. Once the question has been called, members shall > have > two (2) business days to vote. > 4) No action shall be considered passed without a vote of the > majority of all seated members of that committee. > --- > Ken C. Moellman, Jr. > 4th District Chair > State Party IT Director > Libertarian Party of Kentucky >> On 2019-07-31 13:55, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm wrote: >> Aye. But the timing of this should not set precedent for future >> email ballots. >> --- >> Ken C. Moellman, Jr. >> 4th District Chair >> State Party IT Director >> Libertarian Party of Kentucky >>> On 2019-07-31 13:09, Chris Wiest wrote: >>> The motion has been made and seconded. >>> By what I am presuming is unanimous consent (and any member may >>> object in which case I will suspend voting and open this to >>> discussion as required by the operating rules), I am ending >>> discussion on this and opening voting. >>> Email voting is opened (unless there is an objection to my >>> ending >>> discussion early, in which case I will suspend further voting). >>> In the interest of timeliness, I will end voting at the earlier >>> of: >>> (I) all members having voted; or (II) a majority of the entire >>> committee voting yes or no. >>> For the record, I vote aye. >>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> On Jul 31, 2019, at 12:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm >>>> <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote: >>>> Second. >>>> We need to move VERY fast on this. If we cannot get a vote on >>>> this today then we need an emergency Exec call tonight, or >>>> alternately the date will have to be pushed. I think we >>>> almost >>>> have to do an emergency Exec call at this point. >>>> --- >>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr. >>>> 4th District Chair >>>> State Party IT Director >>>> Libertarian Party of Kentucky >>>>> On 2019-07-31 12:37, randall.daniel--- via Lpk-execomm wrote: >>>>> I motion that we call a organizing convention for the sixth >>>>> district on Saturday August 31st, 1 pm, at the Lexington >>>>> Public >>>>> Library, North side Branch. >>>>> We have the medium conference room from 1 pm until 3 pm. >>>>> Randall Daniel >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Lpk-execomm mailing list >>>>> Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org >>>>> http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Lpk-execomm mailing list >>>> Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org >>>> http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm >> _______________________________________________ >> Lpk-execomm mailing list >> Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org >> http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm > _______________________________________________ > Lpk-execomm mailing list > Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org > http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
-- Cristi Kendrick Secretary, Libertarian Party of Kentucky Membership & Outreach Director 502-457-6765
_______________________________________________ Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
_______________________________________________ Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
The motion passes. Let’s get it noticed. Sent from my iPad
On Aug 1, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote:
That's a majority. Are we calling this done, Chris? The notice has to go out TODAY to meet the 30 day requirement.
--- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 22:06, Vice Chairman Bryan Short via Lpk-execomm wrote: Aye Live Free & Carry On, Bryan S. Short, Vice Chair Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On Jul 31, 2019, at 7:43 PM, Cristi Kendrick via Lpk-execomm <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote: Aye On 7/31/19 7:05 PM, Chris Wiest via Lpk-execomm wrote: We do not have a majority yet. There are currently five votes in favor. Still need one of the following: the Vice Chair, Secretary, Treasurer, or one of the two at large votes to be made. We need one more vote.... Sent from my iPad
On Jul 31, 2019, at 6:38 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote: We're distracting from the vote... But I think we have a majority at this point anyway. The reason why RONR doesn't have electronic meetings at all is because it's always dicey. Part of parliamentary procedure is to ensure that all voices are heard, points are deliberated, and then a vote happens. I've talked to one of the board of directors of RONR about this very subject, and that's the reason he gave as to why they still forbid it in RONR and it requires bylaws (in the generic use of the term) to override RONR. I think there's a way to make electronic meetings work. Our current rules are decent, but there should be time for discussion. On a call, or in person, that discussion happens real-time, so it's possible to dissent and have others consider that dissent. Email is delayed timing. In contrast to your preference, I personally prefer to use email ballots for things that are not an emergency and easy to pass. We also don't necessarily need 2 meetings per month in that scenario, either. Just my thoughts on the matter... --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky
On 2019-07-31 15:08, chris@cwiestlaw.com wrote: I get it. I do disagree with you about the best way to get to a vote. Quorum on last minute emergency issues is always dicey at best. You are asking people to drop everything they are doing, or otherwise have planned, with little to no notice, and to make a telephone call. That has not typically been overly successful. If I called a meeting tonight, at 9 p.m., maybe we get a quorum, but probably we do not. If we do not, then I have to try again for tomorrow. Again, maybe we have quorum, maybe not. And if no quorum tomorrow night, we don't hit the 30 day notice requirement, and then the entire convention has to be replanned. Which is the very thing we are trying to avoid. An email ballot, particularly for in between meeting emergencies, is the best bet of getting quorum and a vote accomplished (assuming we can get people to vote by email -- and think about it -- email is easier to do than making a call with no notice). As when Harlen was the chair, I generally dislike business by email. It hasn't been my, or our practice to do so to date, except in emergencies with pressing timing concerns. I tend to think we need to keep to the standard of "emergencies with pressing timing concerns" for email ballots and in terms of precedents. That said, this seems like an emergency with a pressing timing concern. -----Original Message----- From: Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 2:50 PM To: Chris Wiest <chris@cwiestlaw.com> Cc: lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org Subject: Re: [Lpk-execomm] MOTION Motion to call D6 organizing convention I am not raising objection in this case, but also asking that this sort of emergency-vote-by-email not become the norm. The process of voting by email is outlined in a way that is intentionally meant to allow debate and to allow everyone to have a say. It is, by its nature, slower than an in-person or teleconference meeting. Emergencies are better handled by conference call, which is section B of the same operating rule (though that language needs some clean-up). To set precedent, to permit voting in this way, would allow for ram-rodding. In this case, this isn't an issue that is controversial in any way, but this should not be the precedent going forward. That is my point. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. 4th District Chair State Party IT Director Libertarian Party of Kentucky > On 2019-07-31 14:11, Chris Wiest wrote: > Mr. Moellman, > I am aware of the rules. I am also aware of my discretion as chair to > handle matters by unanimous consent. We are ending discussion by > unanimous consent (unless someone objects), though a 1/3 formal vote > could be sufficient to do so. > Unless there is an objection. > Please confirm, for the record, that you are not raising an objection > to our ending discussion early. > Sent from my iPad >> On Jul 31, 2019, at 1:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm >> <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote: >> As a reminder on the rules of email ballots.... >> A) The State Party Executive Committee shall provide and manage an >> official mailing list for electronic discussion and voting to every >> committee of the Party, made viewable to Voting Members, using >> official LPKY.org email addresses assigned by the State Party. >> 1) No more than two (2) motions by electronic mail shall be >> considered by a committee at the same time. A committee member may >> introduce a motion by opening a distinct thread on the appropriate >> mailing list. The subject line must begin with “MOTION:” >> in capital letters, >> followed by subject in normal case. >> 2) Discussion may begin once another member has seconded the motion. >> A motion is considered failed if it is not seconded within two (2) >> business days. >> 3) The question will automatically be called, unless tabled to the >> next special or regular meeting, by a vote of one third (1/3) or more >> of the committee, after one (1) full business day with no discussion, >> or five (5) business days after the motion was seconded, whichever >> comes first. Once the question has been called, members shall have >> two (2) business days to vote. >> 4) No action shall be considered passed without a vote of the >> majority of all seated members of that committee. >> --- >> Ken C. Moellman, Jr. >> 4th District Chair >> State Party IT Director >> Libertarian Party of Kentucky >>> On 2019-07-31 13:55, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm wrote: >>> Aye. But the timing of this should not set precedent for future >>> email ballots. >>> --- >>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr. >>> 4th District Chair >>> State Party IT Director >>> Libertarian Party of Kentucky >>>> On 2019-07-31 13:09, Chris Wiest wrote: >>>> The motion has been made and seconded. >>>> By what I am presuming is unanimous consent (and any member may >>>> object in which case I will suspend voting and open this to >>>> discussion as required by the operating rules), I am ending >>>> discussion on this and opening voting. >>>> Email voting is opened (unless there is an objection to my ending >>>> discussion early, in which case I will suspend further voting). >>>> In the interest of timeliness, I will end voting at the earlier of: >>>> (I) all members having voted; or (II) a majority of the entire >>>> committee voting yes or no. >>>> For the record, I vote aye. >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> On Jul 31, 2019, at 12:57 PM, Ken Moellman via Lpk-execomm >>>>> <lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org> wrote: >>>>> Second. >>>>> We need to move VERY fast on this. If we cannot get a vote on >>>>> this today then we need an emergency Exec call tonight, or >>>>> alternately the date will have to be pushed. I think we almost >>>>> have to do an emergency Exec call at this point. >>>>> --- >>>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr. >>>>> 4th District Chair >>>>> State Party IT Director >>>>> Libertarian Party of Kentucky >>>>>> On 2019-07-31 12:37, randall.daniel--- via Lpk-execomm wrote: >>>>>> I motion that we call a organizing convention for the sixth >>>>>> district on Saturday August 31st, 1 pm, at the Lexington Public >>>>>> Library, North side Branch. >>>>>> We have the medium conference room from 1 pm until 3 pm. >>>>>> Randall Daniel >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Lpk-execomm mailing list >>>>>> Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org >>>>>> http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Lpk-execomm mailing list >>>>> Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org >>>>> http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Lpk-execomm mailing list >>> Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org >>> http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm >> _______________________________________________ >> Lpk-execomm mailing list >> Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org >> http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm -- Cristi Kendrick Secretary, Libertarian Party of Kentucky Membership & Outreach Director 502-457-6765
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
Lpk-execomm mailing list Lpk-execomm@lists.lpky.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpk-execomm
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participants (9)
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Chris Wiest -
Chris Wiest -
chris＠cwiestlaw.com
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Cristi Kendrick -
David Watson -
John Hicks -
Ken Moellman -
randall.daniel＠lpky.org -
Vice Chairman Bryan Short