I think the issue is more that we leave the really important elections until the very end. We shouldn't have to rush through it. I'm not mad Nick rushed us through it based on where we were, but we shouldn't be in that position to begin with. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Vice Chairman, Libertarian Party of Georgia On 2018-07-05 23:08, Nelson Barnhouse via Lpganationaldelegates2018 wrote:

Blame me. I left early.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 5, 2018, at 9:42 PM, Nathan Wilson via Lpganationaldelegates2018 <lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

If the at-large was not resolved through the majority's, then the rest of the board would have appointed individuals they chose.

Last convention we did not get to the judicial votes, so the lnc chose the judicial candidates. The body had no say in those results.

In my opinion this was handled the best way possible given the time that was left. I feel there would have been little change in the lnc regardless of how many more votes we had.

If you feel the need to blame anyone, I did at the last moment at Alicia Mattson to my vote for at Large. Though this wouldn't fix anything it would have gave sheetz a chance. Though more accurately we could blame the hundreds of other people who left early.

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, 8:53 PM Martin Cowen via Lpganationaldelegates2018 <lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

I did not feel bullied. I was very happy to have the matter moved along expeditiously.

We were seriously up against the clock.

Martin

P.S. That said, I wasn't the person who lost by one vote. I get it.

Martin Cowen

Candidate for US House of Representatives GA Dist. 13

Please like my Facebook page

Contributions or gifts to Cowen for Congress are not tax deductible.

If legal [1], please donate from my web site, CowenforCongress.com [2].

Contribute by mail here:

Cowen for Congress [3] Campaign Committee 8188 Pembrook Terrace Jonesboro, GA 30236

770-471-9800 mlcowen@yahoo.com

On Thursday, July 5, 2018, 8:43:57 PM EDT, Ryan Graham via Lpganationaldelegates2018 <lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

Hey Team,

Our brand new alternate is asking us about how this was handled. It sounds like some are upset at us suspending the rules to elect these positions in one vote, especially given the first out in the LNC At-Large race only lost by a single vote.

Victoria wants to know if we felt bullied in any way.

It sounds like there is some discussion of fixing the vote for the 3 LNC At-Large that we got by suspending the rules, and every Judicial Committee member.

-- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Vice Chairman, Libertarian Party of Georgia _______________________________________________ Lpganationaldelegates2018 mailing list Lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpganationaldelegates2018

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_______________________________________________ Lpganationaldelegates2018 mailing list Lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpganationaldelegates2018 Links: ------ [1] https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/candidate-taking-receipts... [2] http://www.cowenforcongress.com/?page_id=32 [3] http://www.cowenforcongress.com [4] https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon [5] https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link

So one of the biggest problems was the issue with the minority report on the platform. It is clear in the bylaws that there is only supposed to be 1 Minority Report. But the committee decided to send out multiple minority reports. This issue took over an hour to resolve just on the rules on the floor on how to handle this. Then it took extra time in order to resolve each vote and each reconciliation of the rules on the subsequent minority reports. There should have been enough time to get all the elected positions done, however we were pushed a full hour and a half into the next day for minority reports and platform changes. We were supposed to end business several hours before we order adjourned. That hour and a half, plus the weight of all the parliamentarian debate that we had, did not help. On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, 11:35 PM mergler33 via Lpganationaldelegates2018 < lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

I know this was my first convention and I'm not sure how they usually go. But personally I feel like 2 days isn't enough time if that's how long it's going to take. I do understand that y'all had a lot more people show up than usual though. And with more people you're liable to get more opinions which takes more time. Maybe a suggestion would be to make it a day longer?

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message -------- From: Ryan Graham via Lpganationaldelegates2018 < lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> Date: 7/5/18 11:19 PM (GMT-05:00) To: Nelson Barnhouse <nelsonbarnhouse49@icloud.com> Cc: Lpganationaldelegates2018 <Lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> Subject: Re: [Lpganationaldelegates2018] Question About LNC At-Large/Judicial Committee Votes

I think the issue is more that we leave the really important elections until the very end. We shouldn't have to rush through it. I'm not mad Nick rushed us through it based on where we were, but we shouldn't be in that position to begin with. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Vice Chairman, Libertarian Party of Georgia

On 2018-07-05 23:08, Nelson Barnhouse via Lpganationaldelegates2018 wrote:

Blame me. I left early.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 5, 2018, at 9:42 PM, Nathan Wilson via Lpganationaldelegates2018 < lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

If the at-large was not resolved through the majority's, then the rest of the board would have appointed individuals they chose.

Last convention we did not get to the judicial votes, so the lnc chose the judicial candidates. The body had no say in those results.

In my opinion this was handled the best way possible given the time that was left. I feel there would have been little change in the lnc regardless of how many more votes we had.

If you feel the need to blame anyone, I did at the last moment at Alicia Mattson to my vote for at Large. Though this wouldn't fix anything it would have gave sheetz a chance. Though more accurately we could blame the hundreds of other people who left early.

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, 8:53 PM Martin Cowen via Lpganationaldelegates2018 < lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

...

I did not feel bullied. I was very happy to have the matter moved along expeditiously.

We were seriously up against the clock.

Martin

P.S. That said, I wasn't the person who lost by one vote. I get it.

Martin Cowen

Candidate for US House of Representatives GA Dist. 13

Please like my Facebook page <http://www.fb.com/cowenforcongress>

Contributions or gifts to Cowen for Congress are not tax deductible.

If legal <https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/candidate-taking-receipts/who-can-and-cannot-contribute/>, please donate from my web site, CowenforCongress.com <http://www.cowenforcongress.com/?page_id=32>.

Contribute by mail here:

Cowen for Congress <http://www.cowenforcongress.com> Campaign Committee 8188 Pembrook Terrace Jonesboro, GA 30236

770-471-9800 mlcowen@yahoo.com

On Thursday, July 5, 2018, 8:43:57 PM EDT, Ryan Graham via Lpganationaldelegates2018 <lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

Hey Team,

Our brand new alternate is asking us about how this was handled. It sounds like some are upset at us suspending the rules to elect these positions in one vote, especially given the first out in the LNC At-Large race only lost by a single vote.

Victoria wants to know if we felt bullied in any way.

It sounds like there is some discussion of fixing the vote for the 3 LNC At-Large that we got by suspending the rules, and every Judicial Committee member. -- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Vice Chairman, Libertarian Party of Georgia _______________________________________________ Lpganationaldelegates2018 mailing list Lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpganationaldelegates2018

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> _______________________________________________ Lpganationaldelegates2018 mailing list Lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpganationaldelegates2018

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I've given the feedback as no animosity or anything towards Nick for hurrying us along at the end, but still general unhappiness with the result. We need to get it fixed by 2020 so it doesn't happen again, but we can accept what happened this year. The problem with moving the elections up is less time to campaign for the candidates. Should be a happy medium somewhere though. The speed at which we vote is also a problem. A party that literally complains about our abundance of IT people and we're still hand balloting these things for our Secretary to enter into Excel on her unsupported Windows XP laptop is probably not going to cut it. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Vice Chairman, Libertarian Party of Georgia On 2018-07-06 00:24, Nelson Barnhouse wrote:

Well if you are going to be all logical about it I give up. You do not have to blame me. For an alternative example the Republicans in their Ga convention finish all the people elections before they vote bylaws. They seldom complete bylaws.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 5, 2018, at 11:19 PM, Ryan Graham <ryan.graham@lpgeorgia.com> wrote:

I think the issue is more that we leave the really important elections until the very end. We shouldn't have to rush through it. I'm not mad Nick rushed us through it based on where we were, but we shouldn't be in that position to begin with.

--- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Vice Chairman, Libertarian Party of Georgia

On 2018-07-05 23:08, Nelson Barnhouse via Lpganationaldelegates2018 wrote: Blame me. I left early.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 5, 2018, at 9:42 PM, Nathan Wilson via Lpganationaldelegates2018 <lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

If the at-large was not resolved through the majority's, then the rest of the board would have appointed individuals they chose.

Last convention we did not get to the judicial votes, so the lnc chose the judicial candidates. The body had no say in those results.

In my opinion this was handled the best way possible given the time that was left. I feel there would have been little change in the lnc regardless of how many more votes we had.

If you feel the need to blame anyone, I did at the last moment at Alicia Mattson to my vote for at Large. Though this wouldn't fix anything it would have gave sheetz a chance. Though more accurately we could blame the hundreds of other people who left early.

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, 8:53 PM Martin Cowen via Lpganationaldelegates2018 <lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

I did not feel bullied. I was very happy to have the matter moved along expeditiously.

We were seriously up against the clock.

Martin

P.S. That said, I wasn't the person who lost by one vote. I get it.

Martin Cowen

Candidate for US House of Representatives GA Dist. 13

Please like my Facebook page

Contributions or gifts to Cowen for Congress are not tax deductible.

If legal [1], please donate from my web site, CowenforCongress.com [2].

Contribute by mail here:

Cowen for Congress [3] Campaign Committee 8188 Pembrook Terrace Jonesboro, GA 30236

770-471-9800 mlcowen@yahoo.com

On Thursday, July 5, 2018, 8:43:57 PM EDT, Ryan Graham via Lpganationaldelegates2018 <lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

Hey Team,

Our brand new alternate is asking us about how this was handled. It sounds like some are upset at us suspending the rules to elect these positions in one vote, especially given the first out in the LNC At-Large race only lost by a single vote.

Victoria wants to know if we felt bullied in any way.

It sounds like there is some discussion of fixing the vote for the 3 LNC At-Large that we got by suspending the rules, and every Judicial Committee member.

-- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Vice Chairman, Libertarian Party of Georgia _______________________________________________ Lpganationaldelegates2018 mailing list Lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpganationaldelegates2018

<blocked.gif> [4] Virus-free. www.avast.com [5]

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_______________________________________________ Lpganationaldelegates2018 mailing list Lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpganationaldelegates2018 Links: ------ [1] https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/candidate-taking-receipts... [2] http://www.cowenforcongress.com/?page_id=32 [3] http://www.cowenforcongress.com [4] https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon [5] https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link

This is a broader comment but I would be all in favor of having the agenda go: Bylaws, LNC Elections, Platform, instead of its current order. Bylaws are important because they set the rules for the convention, but the Platform is simply Libertarians nerding out over a document the vast majority of the public will not read, IMO. So if we can have the dedicated focus on the platform at the end we can probably get the LNC elections all done at the convention. On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 1:39 PM Ted Metz via Lpganationaldelegates2018 < lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

I am very pleased with the At-Large outcome. It is my opinion that the At-large voting procedure is flawed in that there are 5 slots and 30(?) candidates. I think plurality voting is the only way to efficiently handle multiple candidates for multiple openings. There was no bullying, no force, no intimidation.

Furthermore, I am not certain that the outcome would have been any different had the procedure been done by the book, and if it had, it would have taken 12 hours or more, same opinion with the Judicial Committee. I would like to see plurality voting for any positions that have multiple openings with perhaps taking the top vote recipients equal to twice the number of openings for round one, and move them to the final round of plurality voting to determine the top picks.

For these elections, we were allowed to choose all of our candidate choices, and those with the most approval votes got the positions.

Now, this sort of officer election would be perfect for ranked choice voting.

I suspect that the person(s) raising the issue is just upset that their guy didn't win.

Ted Metz

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Ryan Graham via Lpganationaldelegates2018 <lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

...

I've given the feedback as no animosity or anything towards Nick for hurrying us along at the end, but still general unhappiness with the result. We need to get it fixed by 2020 so it doesn't happen again, but we can accept what happened this year.

The problem with moving the elections up is less time to campaign for the candidates. Should be a happy medium somewhere though. The speed at which we vote is also a problem. A party that literally complains about our abundance of IT people and we're still hand balloting these things for our Secretary to enter into Excel on her unsupported Windows XP laptop is probably not going to cut it. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Vice Chairman, Libertarian Party of Georgia

On 2018-07-06 00:24, Nelson Barnhouse wrote:

Well if you are going to be all logical about it I give up. You do not have to blame me. For an alternative example the Republicans in their Ga convention finish all the people elections before they vote bylaws. They seldom complete bylaws.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 5, 2018, at 11:19 PM, Ryan Graham <ryan.graham@lpgeorgia.com> wrote:

I think the issue is more that we leave the really important elections until the very end. We shouldn't have to rush through it. I'm not mad Nick rushed us through it based on where we were, but we shouldn't be in that position to begin with. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Vice Chairman, Libertarian Party of Georgia

On 2018-07-05 23:08, Nelson Barnhouse via Lpganationaldelegates2018 wrote:

Blame me. I left early.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 5, 2018, at 9:42 PM, Nathan Wilson via Lpganationaldelegates2018 < lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

If the at-large was not resolved through the majority's, then the rest of the board would have appointed individuals they chose.

Last convention we did not get to the judicial votes, so the lnc chose the judicial candidates. The body had no say in those results.

In my opinion this was handled the best way possible given the time that was left. I feel there would have been little change in the lnc regardless of how many more votes we had.

If you feel the need to blame anyone, I did at the last moment at Alicia Mattson to my vote for at Large. Though this wouldn't fix anything it would have gave sheetz a chance. Though more accurately we could blame the hundreds of other people who left early.

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, 8:53 PM Martin Cowen via Lpganationaldelegates2018 < lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

...

I did not feel bullied. I was very happy to have the matter moved along expeditiously.

We were seriously up against the clock.

Martin

P.S. That said, I wasn't the person who lost by one vote. I get it.

Martin Cowen

Candidate for US House of Representatives GA Dist. 13

Please like my Facebook page <http://www.fb.com/cowenforcongress>

Contributions or gifts to Cowen for Congress are not tax deductible.

If legal <https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/candidate-taking-receipts/who-can-and-cannot-contribute/>, please donate from my web site, CowenforCongress.com <http://www.cowenforcongress.com/?page_id=32>.

Contribute by mail here:

Cowen for Congress <http://www.cowenforcongress.com> Campaign Committee 8188 Pembrook Terrace Jonesboro, GA 30236

770-471-9800 mlcowen@yahoo.com

On Thursday, July 5, 2018, 8:43:57 PM EDT, Ryan Graham via Lpganationaldelegates2018 <lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

Hey Team,

Our brand new alternate is asking us about how this was handled. It sounds like some are upset at us suspending the rules to elect these positions in one vote, especially given the first out in the LNC At-Large race only lost by a single vote.

Victoria wants to know if we felt bullied in any way.

It sounds like there is some discussion of fixing the vote for the 3 LNC At-Large that we got by suspending the rules, and every Judicial Committee member. -- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Vice Chairman, Libertarian Party of Georgia _______________________________________________ Lpganationaldelegates2018 mailing list Lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpganationaldelegates2018

<blocked.gif> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> _______________________________________________ Lpganationaldelegates2018 mailing list Lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpganationaldelegates2018

_______________________________________________ Lpganationaldelegates2018 mailing list Lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpganationaldelegates2018

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That was my goal 2 years ago, and we did propose a good change... however it takes a 7/8 majority to change the SOP. I have some other ideas and I am going to share them, but I think shorter the better. (brevity caucus). On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 2:12 PM, Brent Hilburn via Lpganationaldelegates2018 <lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

A simple solution would be to stop acting like Republicans & Democrats and eliminate the platform and strengthen the SOP....

Maybe I'll make that motion in 2020...

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018, 14:00 Dan Johnson via Lpganationaldelegates2018 < lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

...

This is a broader comment but I would be all in favor of having the agenda go: Bylaws, LNC Elections, Platform, instead of its current order. Bylaws are important because they set the rules for the convention, but the Platform is simply Libertarians nerding out over a document the vast majority of the public will not read, IMO. So if we can have the dedicated focus on the platform at the end we can probably get the LNC elections all done at the convention.

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 1:39 PM Ted Metz via Lpganationaldelegates2018 < lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

...

I am very pleased with the At-Large outcome. It is my opinion that the At-large voting procedure is flawed in that there are 5 slots and 30(?) candidates. I think plurality voting is the only way to efficiently handle multiple candidates for multiple openings. There was no bullying, no force, no intimidation.

Furthermore, I am not certain that the outcome would have been any different had the procedure been done by the book, and if it had, it would have taken 12 hours or more, same opinion with the Judicial Committee. I would like to see plurality voting for any positions that have multiple openings with perhaps taking the top vote recipients equal to twice the number of openings for round one, and move them to the final round of plurality voting to determine the top picks.

For these elections, we were allowed to choose all of our candidate choices, and those with the most approval votes got the positions.

Now, this sort of officer election would be perfect for ranked choice voting.

I suspect that the person(s) raising the issue is just upset that their guy didn't win.

Ted Metz

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Ryan Graham via Lpganationaldelegates2018 <lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

...

I've given the feedback as no animosity or anything towards Nick for hurrying us along at the end, but still general unhappiness with the result. We need to get it fixed by 2020 so it doesn't happen again, but we can accept what happened this year.

The problem with moving the elections up is less time to campaign for the candidates. Should be a happy medium somewhere though. The speed at which we vote is also a problem. A party that literally complains about our abundance of IT people and we're still hand balloting these things for our Secretary to enter into Excel on her unsupported Windows XP laptop is probably not going to cut it. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Vice Chairman, Libertarian Party of Georgia

On 2018-07-06 00:24, Nelson Barnhouse wrote:

Well if you are going to be all logical about it I give up. You do not have to blame me. For an alternative example the Republicans in their Ga convention finish all the people elections before they vote bylaws. They seldom complete bylaws.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 5, 2018, at 11:19 PM, Ryan Graham <ryan.graham@lpgeorgia.com> wrote:

I think the issue is more that we leave the really important elections until the very end. We shouldn't have to rush through it. I'm not mad Nick rushed us through it based on where we were, but we shouldn't be in that position to begin with. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Vice Chairman, Libertarian Party of Georgia

On 2018-07-05 23:08, Nelson Barnhouse via Lpganationaldelegates2018 wrote:

Blame me. I left early.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 5, 2018, at 9:42 PM, Nathan Wilson via Lpganationaldelegates2018 <lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

If the at-large was not resolved through the majority's, then the rest of the board would have appointed individuals they chose.

Last convention we did not get to the judicial votes, so the lnc chose the judicial candidates. The body had no say in those results.

In my opinion this was handled the best way possible given the time that was left. I feel there would have been little change in the lnc regardless of how many more votes we had.

If you feel the need to blame anyone, I did at the last moment at Alicia Mattson to my vote for at Large. Though this wouldn't fix anything it would have gave sheetz a chance. Though more accurately we could blame the hundreds of other people who left early.

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, 8:53 PM Martin Cowen via Lpganationaldelegates2018 <lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

...

I did not feel bullied. I was very happy to have the matter moved along expeditiously.

We were seriously up against the clock.

Martin

P.S. That said, I wasn't the person who lost by one vote. I get it.

Martin Cowen

Candidate for US House of Representatives GA Dist. 13

Please like my Facebook page <http://www.fb.com/cowenforcongress>

Contributions or gifts to Cowen for Congress are not tax deductible.

If legal <https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/candidate-taking-receipts/who-can-and-cannot-contribute/>, please donate from my web site, CowenforCongress.com <http://www.cowenforcongress.com/?page_id=32>.

Contribute by mail here:

Cowen for Congress <http://www.cowenforcongress.com> Campaign Committee 8188 Pembrook Terrace Jonesboro, GA 30236

770-471-9800 mlcowen@yahoo.com

On Thursday, July 5, 2018, 8:43:57 PM EDT, Ryan Graham via Lpganationaldelegates2018 <lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

Hey Team,

Our brand new alternate is asking us about how this was handled. It sounds like some are upset at us suspending the rules to elect these positions in one vote, especially given the first out in the LNC At-Large race only lost by a single vote.

Victoria wants to know if we felt bullied in any way.

It sounds like there is some discussion of fixing the vote for the 3 LNC At-Large that we got by suspending the rules, and every Judicial Committee member. -- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Vice Chairman, Libertarian Party of Georgia _______________________________________________ Lpganationaldelegates2018 mailing list Lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ lpganationaldelegates2018

<blocked.gif> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> _______________________________________________ Lpganationaldelegates2018 mailing list Lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ lpganationaldelegates2018

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-- Sincerely & For Liberty Nathan Wilson 770.653.1648 @Nathan4Liberty

I think a pretty easy way to settle that argument would be to pull the analytics from the platform page. It may not give you everything you need to know, but if you have 1,000< per month going to the platform page, that would probably answer that question as to how many people reference it or not. But more importantly, if it is useful, the platform is already pretty well done. It has been slightly modified a sentence or two for 40+ years but it is very well put together right now. Changing a comma or a sentence here or there isn't really a good use of time. But again, I'm not suggesting eliminating platform discussions, just moving them to the end so the dedicated activists can make edits to it as necessary. Choosing leadership is a fairly critical determiner of new membership, and allowing an existing committee to choose some of the leadership on their own is a good way to keep new blood and ideas from flowing in. On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 12:39 AM John via Lpganationaldelegates2018 < lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

Sorry I'm a bit late to this game.

...

the Platform is simply Libertarians nerding out over a document the vast majority of the public will not read

I strongly disagree with the relative priorities expressed here. If you want to skip the convention entirely to focus on activism, I get that, but the platform is easily the most important thing done there.

Leadership is just names and faces. Yes, it can be nice to have hard workers there. And it would be nifty if they didn't say embarrassing things. But ultimately they don't really matter much. We could succeed or fail about as easily with a good (e.g.) chair as with a bad one. And honestly the difference in quality between the leading candidates just isn't that big.

Absolutely most people will never read the platform. But think about who it is that does. They're interested, aware, and motivated. They're more likely to end up getting involved. I know reading the LP national platform was one of the first couple of things I read to learn what libertarianism was. I wasn't going to sit down and read some philosopher's tome, but a few bullet points? I can handle that.

And even if they don't sit down and read it, which again most won't, it's reference material. When I've had people try to misrepresent what the LP is, I can quote and link to the platform to show them they're buying into a BS narrative. That alone is valuable.

It also serves a purpose within a party, though this would be done better if it was shorter.

On 07/06/2018 02:00 PM, Dan Johnson via Lpganationaldelegates2018 wrote:

This is a broader comment but I would be all in favor of having the agenda go: Bylaws, LNC Elections, Platform, instead of its current order. Bylaws are important because they set the rules for the convention, but the Platform is simply Libertarians nerding out over a document the vast majority of the public will not read, IMO. So if we can have the dedicated focus on the platform at the end we can probably get the LNC elections all done at the convention.

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 1:39 PM Ted Metz via Lpganationaldelegates2018 < lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

...

I am very pleased with the At-Large outcome. It is my opinion that the At-large voting procedure is flawed in that there are 5 slots and 30(?) candidates. I think plurality voting is the only way to efficiently handle multiple candidates for multiple openings. There was no bullying, no force, no intimidation.

Furthermore, I am not certain that the outcome would have been any different had the procedure been done by the book, and if it had, it would have taken 12 hours or more, same opinion with the Judicial Committee. I would like to see plurality voting for any positions that have multiple openings with perhaps taking the top vote recipients equal to twice the number of openings for round one, and move them to the final round of plurality voting to determine the top picks.

For these elections, we were allowed to choose all of our candidate choices, and those with the most approval votes got the positions.

Now, this sort of officer election would be perfect for ranked choice voting.

I suspect that the person(s) raising the issue is just upset that their guy didn't win.

Ted Metz

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Ryan Graham via Lpganationaldelegates2018 <lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

...

I've given the feedback as no animosity or anything towards Nick for hurrying us along at the end, but still general unhappiness with the result. We need to get it fixed by 2020 so it doesn't happen again, but we can accept what happened this year.

The problem with moving the elections up is less time to campaign for the candidates. Should be a happy medium somewhere though. The speed at which we vote is also a problem. A party that literally complains about our abundance of IT people and we're still hand balloting these things for our Secretary to enter into Excel on her unsupported Windows XP laptop is probably not going to cut it. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Vice Chairman, Libertarian Party of Georgia

On 2018-07-06 00:24, Nelson Barnhouse wrote:

Well if you are going to be all logical about it I give up. You do not have to blame me. For an alternative example the Republicans in their Ga convention finish all the people elections before they vote bylaws. They seldom complete bylaws.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 5, 2018, at 11:19 PM, Ryan Graham <ryan.graham@lpgeorgia.com> wrote:

I think the issue is more that we leave the really important elections until the very end. We shouldn't have to rush through it. I'm not mad Nick rushed us through it based on where we were, but we shouldn't be in that position to begin with. --- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Vice Chairman, Libertarian Party of Georgia

On 2018-07-05 23:08, Nelson Barnhouse via Lpganationaldelegates2018 wrote:

Blame me. I left early.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 5, 2018, at 9:42 PM, Nathan Wilson via Lpganationaldelegates2018 < lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

If the at-large was not resolved through the majority's, then the rest of the board would have appointed individuals they chose.

Last convention we did not get to the judicial votes, so the lnc chose the judicial candidates. The body had no say in those results.

In my opinion this was handled the best way possible given the time that was left. I feel there would have been little change in the lnc regardless of how many more votes we had.

If you feel the need to blame anyone, I did at the last moment at Alicia Mattson to my vote for at Large. Though this wouldn't fix anything it would have gave sheetz a chance. Though more accurately we could blame the hundreds of other people who left early.

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, 8:53 PM Martin Cowen via Lpganationaldelegates2018 < lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

...

I did not feel bullied. I was very happy to have the matter moved along expeditiously.

We were seriously up against the clock.

Martin

P.S. That said, I wasn't the person who lost by one vote. I get it.

Martin Cowen

Candidate for US House of Representatives GA Dist. 13

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On Thursday, July 5, 2018, 8:43:57 PM EDT, Ryan Graham via Lpganationaldelegates2018 <lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org> wrote:

Hey Team,

Our brand new alternate is asking us about how this was handled. It sounds like some are upset at us suspending the rules to elect these positions in one vote, especially given the first out in the LNC At-Large race only lost by a single vote.

Victoria wants to know if we felt bullied in any way.

It sounds like there is some discussion of fixing the vote for the 3 LNC At-Large that we got by suspending the rules, and every Judicial Committee member. -- In Liberty, Ryan Graham Vice Chairman, Libertarian Party of Georgia _______________________________________________ Lpganationaldelegates2018 mailing list Lpganationaldelegates2018@lpmail.lp.org http://lpmail.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpganationaldelegates2018

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Plurality voting is only acceptable when there are exactly 2 candidates (or 1 + NOTA). Under any other circumstance it's about as good as picking the candidate at random. Ideally, I would prefer that we use stock, normal AV. No pressure to pick a certain number of candidates, no voteshare threshold for success (just top X). That said, the way it was conducted is good enough for me. It's better than IRV for a case like this because of center squeeze (ie AV leads to better results) and speed in both voting and counting, but just about any system would be better than plurality. On 07/06/2018 01:39 PM, Ted Metz via Lpganationaldelegates2018 wrote:

I am very pleased with the At-Large outcome. It is my opinion that the At-large voting procedure is flawed in that there are 5 slots and 30(?) candidates. I think plurality voting is the only way to efficiently handle multiple candidates for multiple openings. There was no bullying, no force, no intimidation.

Furthermore, I am not certain that the outcome would have been any different had the procedure been done by the book, and if it had, it would have taken 12 hours or more, same opinion with the Judicial Committee. I would like to see plurality voting for any positions that have multiple openings with perhaps taking the top vote recipients equal to twice the number of openings for round one, and move them to the final round of plurality voting to determine the top picks.

For these elections, we were allowed to choose all of our candidate choices, and those with the most approval votes got the positions.

Now, this sort of officer election would be perfect for ranked choice voting.

I suspect that the person(s) raising the issue is just upset that their guy didn't win.

Ted Metz