The new regional reps don't take office until the post convention LNC meeting so I would assume you can have your election at Orlando. Also there is a chance the JC might change to regional representation if that Bylaw passes and that person would also have to be elected. --- Sam Goldstein, At Large Member Libertarian National Committee 317-850-0726 Cell On 2020-05-19 20:14, john.phillips--- via Lnc-business wrote:
Question for clarity. Regional agreements need to be done on/by saturday.
Do regional elections as well? Or -presuming we don't change anything - are those not due until we do other lnc elections?
John Phillips Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative Cell 217-412-5973
Heh, you can get in trouble for even thinking these days! --- Sam Goldstein, At Large Member Libertarian National Committee 317-850-0726 Cell On 2020-05-19 20:40, john.phillips@lp.org wrote:
Kinda what I was thinking, but I get myself in trouble assuming, so was hoping for an official answer
John Phillips Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative Cell 217-412-5973
On May 19, 2020 7:30 PM, Sam Goldstein <sam.goldstein@lp.org> wrote:
The new regional reps don't take office until the post convention LNC meeting so I would assume you can have your election at Orlando. Also there is a chance the JC might change to regional representation if that Bylaw passes and that person would also have to be elected.
--- Sam Goldstein, At Large Member Libertarian National Committee 317-850-0726 Cell
On 2020-05-19 20:14, john.phillips--- via Lnc-business wrote: Question for clarity. Regional agreements need to be done on/by saturday.
Do regional elections as well? Or -presuming we don't change anything - are those not due until we do other lnc elections?
John Phillips Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative Cell 217-412-5973
I think this is a very gray area. you may want to get a ruling from the chair. I would put everything you want in the agreement - and I would not assume that the reps take office - as Sam said - in Orlando. I actually think the opposite is true unless that is set out in the agreement. You cannot be wrong by specifying each thing in the agreement. *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 6:43 PM Sam Goldstein via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Heh, you can get in trouble for even thinking these days!
--- Sam Goldstein, At Large Member Libertarian National Committee 317-850-0726 Cell
On 2020-05-19 20:40, john.phillips@lp.org wrote:
Kinda what I was thinking, but I get myself in trouble assuming, so was hoping for an official answer
John Phillips Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative Cell 217-412-5973
On May 19, 2020 7:30 PM, Sam Goldstein <sam.goldstein@lp.org> wrote:
The new regional reps don't take office until the post convention LNC meeting so I would assume you can have your election at Orlando. Also there is a chance the JC might change to regional representation if that Bylaw passes and that person would also have to be elected.
--- Sam Goldstein, At Large Member Libertarian National Committee 317-850-0726 Cell
On 2020-05-19 20:14, john.phillips--- via Lnc-business wrote: Question for clarity. Regional agreements need to be done on/by saturday.
Do regional elections as well? Or -presuming we don't change anything - are those not due until we do other lnc elections?
John Phillips Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative Cell 217-412-5973
The good news is that we don't have to guess. Bylaws and Convention Rules answer all of these questions. Bylaw 7.2.c - Regions must be formed by the 2nd day of the convention, but the paperwork giving notice of the region formation must be given to the Secretary prior to the close of the convention. If the convention finishes out in Orlando, then that's the close of the convention. Bylaw 7.3 - "The National Committee shall take office immediately upon the close of the Regular Convention at which they are selected, and serve until the final adjournment of the next Regular Convention." LNC terms begin and end at the final adjournment of conventions. The reason the CA operates differently is that they have 10% by themselves, are entitled to a region rep by themselves, and always make regional agreements that give them control of who their rep is, and regional agreements which establish the rules for replacing the rep as being the CA affiliate bylaws. Then the CA bylaws say that the CA convention elects the region rep and that newly elected person immediately replaces the previously elected one, essentially removing a rep when they please and appointing a replacement to finish out the remainder of what the national bylaws consider to be a normal term. See Bylaw 7.8 which allows the region control over removing/replacing region reps when and how they please so long as they spell out the procedure. -Alicia On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 7:32 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I think this is a very gray area. you may want to get a ruling from the chair. I would put everything you want in the agreement - and I would not assume that the reps take office - as Sam said - in Orlando. I actually think the opposite is true unless that is set out in the agreement.
You cannot be wrong by specifying each thing in the agreement.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 6:43 PM Sam Goldstein via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Heh, you can get in trouble for even thinking these days!
--- Sam Goldstein, At Large Member Libertarian National Committee 317-850-0726 Cell
On 2020-05-19 20:40, john.phillips@lp.org wrote:
Kinda what I was thinking, but I get myself in trouble assuming, so was hoping for an official answer
John Phillips Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative Cell 217-412-5973
On May 19, 2020 7:30 PM, Sam Goldstein <sam.goldstein@lp.org> wrote:
The new regional reps don't take office until the post convention LNC meeting so I would assume you can have your election at Orlando. Also there is a chance the JC might change to regional representation if that Bylaw passes and that person would also have to be elected.
--- Sam Goldstein, At Large Member Libertarian National Committee 317-850-0726 Cell
On 2020-05-19 20:14, john.phillips--- via Lnc-business wrote: Question for clarity. Regional agreements need to be done on/by saturday.
Do regional elections as well? Or -presuming we don't change anything - are those not due until we do other lnc elections?
John Phillips Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative Cell 217-412-5973
For informational purposes, the R1 agreement from 18 says my term began at the close of the NOLA convention and ends at the close of the 20 convention. How we are doing this: We will have the agreement done on time. If the convention closes out this weekend, we have provisions for state chairs to fill vacancies. If it doesn't, we will probably be doing a meeting in June with the delegates to elect which I preside over as the current rep. The next term according to our 20 agreement begins at the close of the national convention. Richard Longstreth Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY) Libertarian National Committee richard.longstreth@lp.org 931.538.9300 Sent from my Mobile Device On Wed, May 20, 2020, 04:57 john.phillips--- via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Thank you Ms Mattson, that does clear it up
John Phillips Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative Cell 217-412-5973
On May 20, 2020 3:02 AM, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
The good news is that we don't have to guess. Bylaws and Convention Rules answer all of these questions.
Bylaw 7.2.c - Regions must be formed by the 2nd day of the convention, but the paperwork giving notice of the region formation must be given to the Secretary prior to the close of the convention. If the convention finishes out in Orlando, then that's the close of the convention.
Bylaw 7.3 - "The National Committee shall take office immediately upon the close of the Regular Convention at which they are selected, and serve until the final adjournment of the next Regular Convention."
LNC terms begin and end at the final adjournment of conventions.
The reason the CA operates differently is that they have 10% by themselves, are entitled to a region rep by themselves, and always make regional agreements that give them control of who their rep is, and regional agreements which establish the rules for replacing the rep as being the CA affiliate bylaws. Then the CA bylaws say that the CA convention elects the region rep and that newly elected person immediately replaces the previously elected one, essentially removing a rep when they please and appointing a replacement to finish out the remainder of what the national bylaws consider to be a normal term. See Bylaw 7.8 which allows the region control over removing/replacing region reps when and how they please so long as they spell out the procedure.
-Alicia
On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 7:32 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I think this is a very gray area. you may want to get a ruling from the chair. I would put everything you want in the agreement - and I would not assume that the reps take office - as Sam said - in Orlando. I actually think the opposite is true unless that is set out in the agreement.
You cannot be wrong by specifying each thing in the agreement.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 6:43 PM Sam Goldstein via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Heh, you can get in trouble for even thinking these days!
--- Sam Goldstein, At Large Member Libertarian National Committee 317-850-0726 Cell
On 2020-05-19 20:40, john.phillips@lp.org wrote:
Kinda what I was thinking, but I get myself in trouble assuming, so was hoping for an official answer
John Phillips Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative Cell 217-412-5973
On May 19, 2020 7:30 PM, Sam Goldstein <sam.goldstein@lp.org> wrote:
The new regional reps don't take office until the post convention LNC meeting so I would assume you can have your election at Orlando. Also there is a chance the JC might change to regional representation if that Bylaw passes and that person would also have to be elected.
--- Sam Goldstein, At Large Member Libertarian National Committee 317-850-0726 Cell
On 2020-05-19 20:14, john.phillips--- via Lnc-business wrote: Question for clarity. Regional agreements need to be done on/by saturday.
Do regional elections as well? Or -presuming we don't change anything - are those not due until we do other lnc elections?
John Phillips Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative Cell 217-412-5973
So, if the region is formed by the 23rd (this Saturday), can the region rep be selected at the in-person in July? On Wed, May 20, 2020, 3:02 AM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
The good news is that we don't have to guess. Bylaws and Convention Rules answer all of these questions.
Bylaw 7.2.c - Regions must be formed by the 2nd day of the convention, but the paperwork giving notice of the region formation must be given to the Secretary prior to the close of the convention. If the convention finishes out in Orlando, then that's the close of the convention.
Bylaw 7.3 - "The National Committee shall take office immediately upon the close of the Regular Convention at which they are selected, and serve until the final adjournment of the next Regular Convention."
LNC terms begin and end at the final adjournment of conventions.
The reason the CA operates differently is that they have 10% by themselves, are entitled to a region rep by themselves, and always make regional agreements that give them control of who their rep is, and regional agreements which establish the rules for replacing the rep as being the CA affiliate bylaws. Then the CA bylaws say that the CA convention elects the region rep and that newly elected person immediately replaces the previously elected one, essentially removing a rep when they please and appointing a replacement to finish out the remainder of what the national bylaws consider to be a normal term. See Bylaw 7.8 which allows the region control over removing/replacing region reps when and how they please so long as they spell out the procedure.
-Alicia
On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 7:32 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I think this is a very gray area. you may want to get a ruling from the chair. I would put everything you want in the agreement - and I would not assume that the reps take office - as Sam said - in Orlando. I actually think the opposite is true unless that is set out in the agreement.
You cannot be wrong by specifying each thing in the agreement.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 6:43 PM Sam Goldstein via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Heh, you can get in trouble for even thinking these days!
--- Sam Goldstein, At Large Member Libertarian National Committee 317-850-0726 Cell
On 2020-05-19 20:40, john.phillips@lp.org wrote:
Kinda what I was thinking, but I get myself in trouble assuming, so was hoping for an official answer
John Phillips Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative Cell 217-412-5973
On May 19, 2020 7:30 PM, Sam Goldstein <sam.goldstein@lp.org> wrote:
The new regional reps don't take office until the post convention LNC meeting so I would assume you can have your election at Orlando. Also there is a chance the JC might change to regional representation if that Bylaw passes and that person would also have to be elected.
--- Sam Goldstein, At Large Member Libertarian National Committee 317-850-0726 Cell
On 2020-05-19 20:14, john.phillips--- via Lnc-business wrote: Question for clarity. Regional agreements need to be done on/by saturday.
Do regional elections as well? Or -presuming we don't change anything - are those not due until we do other lnc elections?
John Phillips Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative Cell 217-412-5973
I would still really suggest asking for a ruling. Mr. Sarwark is known to disagree with myself and Ms. Mattson on occasion. I personally did not agree with his ruling that the agreements were due this weekend. this weekend was a narrow carve out for one purpose - the presidential and vice-presdential nominations and thus have nothing to do with the LNC elections of any kind. However, no regional challenged his ruling, and I do enough challenges. I figured if you guys are not objecting, who am I to object. If I were region 1 I would be appealing that ruling. *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 7:11 AM Whitney Bilyeu via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
So, if the region is formed by the 23rd (this Saturday), can the region rep be selected at the in-person in July?
On Wed, May 20, 2020, 3:02 AM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
The good news is that we don't have to guess. Bylaws and Convention Rules answer all of these questions.
Bylaw 7.2.c - Regions must be formed by the 2nd day of the convention, but the paperwork giving notice of the region formation must be given to the Secretary prior to the close of the convention. If the convention finishes out in Orlando, then that's the close of the convention.
Bylaw 7.3 - "The National Committee shall take office immediately upon the close of the Regular Convention at which they are selected, and serve until the final adjournment of the next Regular Convention."
LNC terms begin and end at the final adjournment of conventions.
The reason the CA operates differently is that they have 10% by themselves, are entitled to a region rep by themselves, and always make regional agreements that give them control of who their rep is, and regional agreements which establish the rules for replacing the rep as being the CA affiliate bylaws. Then the CA bylaws say that the CA convention elects the region rep and that newly elected person immediately replaces the previously elected one, essentially removing a rep when they please and appointing a replacement to finish out the remainder of what the national bylaws consider to be a normal term. See Bylaw 7.8 which allows the region control over removing/replacing region reps when and how they please so long as they spell out the procedure.
-Alicia
On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 7:32 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I think this is a very gray area. you may want to get a ruling from the chair. I would put everything you want in the agreement - and I would not assume that the reps take office - as Sam said - in Orlando. I actually think the opposite is true unless that is set out in the agreement.
You cannot be wrong by specifying each thing in the agreement.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 6:43 PM Sam Goldstein via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Heh, you can get in trouble for even thinking these days!
--- Sam Goldstein, At Large Member Libertarian National Committee 317-850-0726 Cell
On 2020-05-19 20:40, john.phillips@lp.org wrote:
Kinda what I was thinking, but I get myself in trouble assuming, so was hoping for an official answer
John Phillips Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative Cell 217-412-5973
On May 19, 2020 7:30 PM, Sam Goldstein <sam.goldstein@lp.org> wrote:
The new regional reps don't take office until the post convention LNC meeting so I would assume you can have your election at Orlando. Also there is a chance the JC might change to regional representation if that Bylaw passes and that person would also have to be elected.
--- Sam Goldstein, At Large Member Libertarian National Committee 317-850-0726 Cell
On 2020-05-19 20:14, john.phillips--- via Lnc-business wrote: Question for clarity. Regional agreements need to be done on/by saturday.
Do regional elections as well? Or -presuming we don't change anything - are those not due until we do other lnc elections?
John Phillips Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative Cell 217-412-5973
*edit to correct I did not mean to imply that Richard Longstreth should appeal. It is a judgment call. I simply meant that if I were a current regional, I would appeal. However, I can see both sides. *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 7:49 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
I would still really suggest asking for a ruling. Mr. Sarwark is known to disagree with myself and Ms. Mattson on occasion. I personally did not agree with his ruling that the agreements were due this weekend. this weekend was a narrow carve out for one purpose - the presidential and vice-presdential nominations and thus have nothing to do with the LNC elections of any kind. However, no regional challenged his ruling, and I do enough challenges. I figured if you guys are not objecting, who am I to object. If I were region 1 I would be appealing that ruling.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 7:11 AM Whitney Bilyeu via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
So, if the region is formed by the 23rd (this Saturday), can the region rep be selected at the in-person in July?
On Wed, May 20, 2020, 3:02 AM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
The good news is that we don't have to guess. Bylaws and Convention Rules answer all of these questions.
Bylaw 7.2.c - Regions must be formed by the 2nd day of the convention, but the paperwork giving notice of the region formation must be given to the Secretary prior to the close of the convention. If the convention finishes out in Orlando, then that's the close of the convention.
Bylaw 7.3 - "The National Committee shall take office immediately upon the close of the Regular Convention at which they are selected, and serve until the final adjournment of the next Regular Convention."
LNC terms begin and end at the final adjournment of conventions.
The reason the CA operates differently is that they have 10% by themselves, are entitled to a region rep by themselves, and always make regional agreements that give them control of who their rep is, and regional agreements which establish the rules for replacing the rep as being the CA affiliate bylaws. Then the CA bylaws say that the CA convention elects the region rep and that newly elected person immediately replaces the previously elected one, essentially removing a rep when they please and appointing a replacement to finish out the remainder of what the national bylaws consider to be a normal term. See Bylaw 7.8 which allows the region control over removing/replacing region reps when and how they please so long as they spell out the procedure.
-Alicia
On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 7:32 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I think this is a very gray area. you may want to get a ruling from the chair. I would put everything you want in the agreement - and I would not assume that the reps take office - as Sam said - in Orlando. I actually think the opposite is true unless that is set out in the agreement.
You cannot be wrong by specifying each thing in the agreement.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 6:43 PM Sam Goldstein via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Heh, you can get in trouble for even thinking these days!
--- Sam Goldstein, At Large Member Libertarian National Committee 317-850-0726 Cell
On 2020-05-19 20:40, john.phillips@lp.org wrote:
Kinda what I was thinking, but I get myself in trouble assuming, so was hoping for an official answer
John Phillips Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative Cell 217-412-5973
On May 19, 2020 7:30 PM, Sam Goldstein <sam.goldstein@lp.org> wrote:
The new regional reps don't take office until the post convention LNC meeting so I would assume you can have your election at Orlando. Also there is a chance the JC might change to regional representation if that Bylaw passes and that person would also have to be elected.
--- Sam Goldstein, At Large Member Libertarian National Committee 317-850-0726 Cell
On 2020-05-19 20:14, john.phillips--- via Lnc-business wrote: Question for clarity. Regional agreements need to be done on/by saturday.
Do regional elections as well? Or -presuming we don't change anything - are those not due until we do other lnc elections?
John Phillips Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative Cell 217-412-5973
The only reason I did not appeal was because I already had it in the works. Region 1 would have lost their you no whats if pre-work on the agreement and discussion had not already been in progress. If the expectation is that new regional reps are named by Saturday, I will rise and appeal that in a second. I also want to note that this has not been too much for me, however I can certainly understand how it can be stressful if the process was not begun early and I will stand with any calls for an appeal from any of my fellow regionals, I however, will not be initiating that. Richard Longstreth Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY) Libertarian National Committee richard.longstreth@lp.org 931.538.9300 Sent from my Mobile Device On Wed, May 20, 2020, 06:50 Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
*edit to correct
I did not mean to imply that Richard Longstreth should appeal. It is a judgment call. I simply meant that if I were a current regional, I would appeal. However, I can see both sides.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 7:49 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
I would still really suggest asking for a ruling. Mr. Sarwark is known to disagree with myself and Ms. Mattson on occasion. I personally did not agree with his ruling that the agreements were due this weekend. this weekend was a narrow carve out for one purpose - the presidential and vice-presdential nominations and thus have nothing to do with the LNC elections of any kind. However, no regional challenged his ruling, and I do enough challenges. I figured if you guys are not objecting, who am I to object. If I were region 1 I would be appealing that ruling.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 7:11 AM Whitney Bilyeu via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
So, if the region is formed by the 23rd (this Saturday), can the region rep be selected at the in-person in July?
On Wed, May 20, 2020, 3:02 AM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
The good news is that we don't have to guess. Bylaws and Convention Rules answer all of these questions.
Bylaw 7.2.c - Regions must be formed by the 2nd day of the convention, but the paperwork giving notice of the region formation must be given to the Secretary prior to the close of the convention. If the convention finishes out in Orlando, then that's the close of the convention.
Bylaw 7.3 - "The National Committee shall take office immediately upon the close of the Regular Convention at which they are selected, and serve until the final adjournment of the next Regular Convention."
LNC terms begin and end at the final adjournment of conventions.
The reason the CA operates differently is that they have 10% by themselves, are entitled to a region rep by themselves, and always make regional agreements that give them control of who their rep is, and regional agreements which establish the rules for replacing the rep as being the CA affiliate bylaws. Then the CA bylaws say that the CA convention elects the region rep and that newly elected person immediately replaces the previously elected one, essentially removing a rep when they please and appointing a replacement to finish out the remainder of what the national bylaws consider to be a normal term. See Bylaw 7.8 which allows the region control over removing/replacing region reps when and how they please so long as they spell out the procedure.
-Alicia
On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 7:32 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I think this is a very gray area. you may want to get a ruling from the chair. I would put everything you want in the agreement - and I would not assume that the reps take office - as Sam said - in Orlando. I actually think the opposite is true unless that is set out in the agreement.
You cannot be wrong by specifying each thing in the agreement.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 6:43 PM Sam Goldstein via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Heh, you can get in trouble for even thinking these days!
--- Sam Goldstein, At Large Member Libertarian National Committee 317-850-0726 Cell
On 2020-05-19 20:40, john.phillips@lp.org wrote:
> Kinda what I was thinking, but I get myself in trouble assuming, so was hoping for an official answer > > John Phillips > Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative > Cell 217-412-5973 > > On May 19, 2020 7:30 PM, Sam Goldstein <sam.goldstein@lp.org> wrote: > > The new regional reps don't take office until the post convention LNC meeting so I would assume you can have your election at Orlando. Also there is a chance the JC might change to regional representation if that Bylaw passes and that person would also have to be elected. > > --- > Sam Goldstein, At Large Member > Libertarian National Committee > 317-850-0726 Cell > > On 2020-05-19 20:14, john.phillips--- via Lnc-business wrote: > Question for clarity. > Regional agreements need to be done on/by saturday. > > Do regional elections as well? Or -presuming we don't change anything - are those not due until we do other lnc elections? > > John Phillips > Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative > Cell 217-412-5973
It is more the principle of the thing I would appeal rather than any hardship. Sets a bad precedent and does over-ride the decision of the LNC that the only thing that is to be dealt with this weekend is our top ticket nominations. *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 9:06 AM Richard Longstreth < richard.longstreth@lp.org> wrote:
The only reason I did not appeal was because I already had it in the works. Region 1 would have lost their you no whats if pre-work on the agreement and discussion had not already been in progress. If the expectation is that new regional reps are named by Saturday, I will rise and appeal that in a second.
I also want to note that this has not been too much for me, however I can certainly understand how it can be stressful if the process was not begun early and I will stand with any calls for an appeal from any of my fellow regionals, I however, will not be initiating that.
Richard Longstreth Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY) Libertarian National Committee richard.longstreth@lp.org 931.538.9300
Sent from my Mobile Device
On Wed, May 20, 2020, 06:50 Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
*edit to correct
I did not mean to imply that Richard Longstreth should appeal. It is a judgment call. I simply meant that if I were a current regional, I would appeal. However, I can see both sides.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 7:49 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org
wrote:
I would still really suggest asking for a ruling. Mr. Sarwark is known to disagree with myself and Ms. Mattson on occasion. I personally did not agree with his ruling that the agreements were due this weekend. this weekend was a narrow carve out for one purpose - the presidential and vice-presdential nominations and thus have nothing to do with the LNC elections of any kind. However, no regional challenged his ruling, and I do enough challenges. I figured if you guys are not objecting, who am I to object. If I were region 1 I would be appealing that ruling.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 7:11 AM Whitney Bilyeu via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
So, if the region is formed by the 23rd (this Saturday), can the region rep be selected at the in-person in July?
On Wed, May 20, 2020, 3:02 AM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
The good news is that we don't have to guess. Bylaws and Convention Rules answer all of these questions.
Bylaw 7.2.c - Regions must be formed by the 2nd day of the convention, but the paperwork giving notice of the region formation must be given to the Secretary prior to the close of the convention. If the convention finishes out in Orlando, then that's the close of the convention.
Bylaw 7.3 - "The National Committee shall take office immediately upon the close of the Regular Convention at which they are selected, and serve until the final adjournment of the next Regular Convention."
LNC terms begin and end at the final adjournment of conventions.
The reason the CA operates differently is that they have 10% by themselves, are entitled to a region rep by themselves, and always make regional agreements that give them control of who their rep is, and regional agreements which establish the rules for replacing the rep as being the CA affiliate bylaws. Then the CA bylaws say that the CA convention elects the region rep and that newly elected person immediately replaces the previously elected one, essentially removing a rep when they please and appointing a replacement to finish out the remainder of what the national bylaws consider to be a normal term. See Bylaw 7.8 which allows the region control over removing/replacing region reps when and how they please so long as they spell out the procedure.
-Alicia
On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 7:32 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I think this is a very gray area. you may want to get a ruling from the chair. I would put everything you want in the agreement - and I would not assume that the reps take office - as Sam said - in Orlando. I actually think the opposite is true unless that is set out in the agreement.
You cannot be wrong by specifying each thing in the agreement.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 6:43 PM Sam Goldstein via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
> Heh, you can get in trouble for even thinking these days! > > --- > Sam Goldstein, At Large Member > Libertarian National Committee > 317-850-0726 Cell > > On 2020-05-19 20:40, john.phillips@lp.org wrote: > > > Kinda what I was thinking, but I get myself in trouble assuming, so was > hoping for an official answer > > > > John Phillips > > Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative > > Cell 217-412-5973 > > > > On May 19, 2020 7:30 PM, Sam Goldstein <sam.goldstein@lp.org> wrote: > > > > The new regional reps don't take office until the post convention LNC > meeting so I would assume you can have your election at Orlando. Also > there is a chance the JC might change to regional representation if that > Bylaw passes and that person would also have to be elected. > > > > --- > > Sam Goldstein, At Large Member > > Libertarian National Committee > > 317-850-0726 Cell > > > > On 2020-05-19 20:14, john.phillips--- via Lnc-business wrote: > > Question for clarity. > > Regional agreements need to be done on/by saturday. > > > > Do regional elections as well? Or -presuming we don't change anything - > are those not due until we do other lnc elections? > > > > John Phillips > > Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative > > Cell 217-412-5973 >
Regional formations are not at the will of the LNC. How they form and who they choose to represent them are dictated in the regional agreements. The citation examples and case study of California that Ms. Mattson provided are very informative on this question. The important points are that the formations must be complected by the second day of the convention, and finalized by the close of convention. Being that those dates are currently understood to be May 23, 2020 and July 10, 2020 sets the timeline for the requisite paperwork. Once the Secretary receives the paperwork, the region is recognized. It is not up to the judgement of the Chair but a bylaws question best adjudicated by the Judicial Committee, of which there is not currently a sitting committee. Respectfully, --- FRANCIS WENDT LNC Region 1 Alternate 406.595.5111
Justin, I stand corrected. That would be the third time I've ever been wrong. --- Sam Goldstein, At Large Member Libertarian National Committee 317-850-0726 Cell On 2020-05-19 20:44, justin.odonnell--- via Lnc-business wrote:
That isn't correct either, Sam. The region reps are elected and assume office at the discretion of their region. For example, California elects their Rep and Alternate at their state convention, and their term is independent of the LNC convention schedule. The Regional agreements can dictate the manner and time of their own election procedures and replacement timelines.
The term that closes at the end of convention is that of the at large reps and officers who are elected as part of that convention.
Justin O'Donnell LNC Region 8 Representative
On May 19, 2020 8:30 PM, Sam Goldstein via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
The new regional reps don't take office until the post convention LNC meeting so I would assume you can have your election at Orlando. Also there is a chance the JC might change to regional representation if that Bylaw passes and that person would also have to be elected.
--- Sam Goldstein, At Large Member Libertarian National Committee 317-850-0726 Cell
On 2020-05-19 20:14, john.phillips--- via Lnc-business wrote:
Question for clarity. Regional agreements need to be done on/by saturday.
Do regional elections as well? Or -presuming we don't change anything - are those not due until we do other lnc elections?
John Phillips Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative Cell 217-412-5973
participants (8)
-
Alicia Mattson -
Caryn Ann Harlos -
Francis Wendt -
john.phillips＠lp.org -
justin.odonnell＠lp.org -
Richard Longstreth -
Sam Goldstein -
Whitney Bilyeu