A yes vote sustains the ruling of the chair. A no vote overturns the ruling of the chair. A tie will sustain the ruling. It requires a simple majority of no votes to overturn. * In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. * On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 2:22 PM Sam Goldstein <sam.goldstein@lp.org> wrote:

Please clarify once more how to vote on this issue. A Yes vote sustains the ruling of the Chair and a No vote overturns the ruling of the Chair?

Simple majority or some other threshold?

Live Free,

--- Sam Goldstein, At Large Member Libertarian National Committee 317-850-0726 Cell

On 2020-05-31 16:18, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:

...

EMAIL BALLOT 200531-1 APPEAL FROM THE RULING OF THE CHAIR CONCERNING REMOVAL OF DANIEL HAYES FROM THE COC

We have an electronic mail ballot.

Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by June 7, 2020 at 11:59:59 pm Pacific time.

Co-Sponsors: Goldstein, Harlos, Longstreth, Phillips, Smith

=============================================

Motion: The Chair has ruled he can not only remove Daniel Hayes as CoC chair but also from the committee entirely. Harlos appeals from the ruling of the chair that he can remove Hayes from the committee without CoC approval since appointment required CoC approval.

=============================================

THRESHOLD REQUIRED: A majority vote is required to overturn the ruling of the chair.

You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VntkXkkuQouUiWbt9bnI_TjSMKDiTaDDpvsY... .

...

Votes are noted with a link to the actual ballot cast for verification. You can find the time that the manual tally was last updated at the bottom of the sheet.

Please notify me of any discrepancies.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

I’m reserving my vote and argument for one day to give the chair his privilege. I would encourage others to do the same I would also encourage members to seek the counsel of Richard Brown On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 4:38 PM <joe.bishop-henchman@lp.org> wrote:

I vote yes, to sustain the ruling. The language of the policy manual is that the non-LNC members are "selected by the LNC Chair" on the recommendation of the COC. There is no explicit language governing dismissals.

While I would agree that a new member would need recommendation by the COC (although this may become moot due to a pending motion), our policy manual chose to be silent on the mechanism of dismissal and in that case it rests with who held appointment power. Presumably a Chair could refuse to appoint someone recommended by the COC, and the result would be a vacant seat. The Chair therefore ultimately selects the members.

In an analogous situation (President's removal of an appointee who had received Senate confirmation for a fixed term, with no explicit language governing dismissals), the U.S. Supreme Court held in Myers v. United States that the President may remove such a person. Congress since has deliberately included such language when the agency involved is intended to be independent of the executive branch, vs. when it is intended to be subordinate to the executive (or legislative). That case incidentally officially exonerated President Andrew Johnson, whose impeachment was pretextually about such a removal without Senate consent.

I've never been quite clear whether the COC is intended to be independent or subordinate, as they can act independently in some, but not all, decisions delegated to them. This lack of clarity also mitigates against insulating members from removal. I would support efforts to clarify it further, however.

JBH

On May 31, 2020 4:18 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

EMAIL BALLOT 200531-1 APPEAL FROM THE RULING OF THE CHAIR CONCERNING REMOVAL OF DANIEL HAYES FROM THE COC

We have an electronic mail ballot.

Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by June 7, 2020 at 11:59:59 pm Pacific time.

Co-Sponsors: Goldstein, Harlos, Longstreth, Phillips, Smith

=============================================

Motion: The Chair has ruled he can not only remove Daniel Hayes as CoC chair but also from the committee entirely. Harlos appeals from the ruling of the chair that he can remove Hayes from the committee without CoC approval since appointment required CoC approval.

=============================================

THRESHOLD REQUIRED: A majority vote is required to overturn the ruling of the chair.

You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VntkXkkuQouUiWbt9bnI_TjSMKDiTaDDpvsY....

Votes are noted with a link to the actual ballot cast for verification. You can find the time that the manual tally was last updated at the bottom of the sheet.

Please notify me of any discrepancies.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

--

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

Wasn’t sure if my first email was sent, but agree with Joes reasoning so vote yes. Also, like Jo I agree these details should be made clearer for future situations. Alex Merced Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP

On May 31, 2020, at 7:00 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

I’m reserving my vote and argument for one day to give the chair his privilege.

I would encourage others to do the same

I would also encourage members to seek the counsel of Richard Brown

...

On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 4:38 PM <joe.bishop-henchman@lp.org> wrote:

I vote yes, to sustain the ruling. The language of the policy manual is that the non-LNC members are "selected by the LNC Chair" on the recommendation of the COC. There is no explicit language governing dismissals.

While I would agree that a new member would need recommendation by the COC (although this may become moot due to a pending motion), our policy manual chose to be silent on the mechanism of dismissal and in that case it rests with who held appointment power. Presumably a Chair could refuse to appoint someone recommended by the COC, and the result would be a vacant seat. The Chair therefore ultimately selects the members.

In an analogous situation (President's removal of an appointee who had received Senate confirmation for a fixed term, with no explicit language governing dismissals), the U.S. Supreme Court held in Myers v. United States that the President may remove such a person. Congress since has deliberately included such language when the agency involved is intended to be independent of the executive branch, vs. when it is intended to be subordinate to the executive (or legislative). That case incidentally officially exonerated President Andrew Johnson, whose impeachment was pretextually about such a removal without Senate consent.

I've never been quite clear whether the COC is intended to be independent or subordinate, as they can act independently in some, but not all, decisions delegated to them. This lack of clarity also mitigates against insulating members from removal. I would support efforts to clarify it further, however.

JBH

On May 31, 2020 4:18 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

EMAIL BALLOT 200531-1 APPEAL FROM THE RULING OF THE CHAIR CONCERNING REMOVAL OF DANIEL HAYES FROM THE COC

We have an electronic mail ballot.

Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by June 7, 2020 at 11:59:59 pm Pacific time.

Co-Sponsors: Goldstein, Harlos, Longstreth, Phillips, Smith

=============================================

Motion: The Chair has ruled he can not only remove Daniel Hayes as CoC chair but also from the committee entirely. Harlos appeals from the ruling of the chair that he can remove Hayes from the committee without CoC approval since appointment required CoC approval.

=============================================

THRESHOLD REQUIRED: A majority vote is required to overturn the ruling of the chair.

You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VntkXkkuQouUiWbt9bnI_TjSMKDiTaDDpvsY....

Votes are noted with a link to the actual ballot cast for verification. You can find the time that the manual tally was last updated at the bottom of the sheet.

Please notify me of any discrepancies.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

--

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

Now that the chair has responded (in another thread) I will speak to my motion. the Chair's response misses the point. He shows where he appointed past members without objection. No one disputes that because those members were recommended by the CoC. That is the whole point. He does not get to unilaterally appoint members per our Policy Manual. Mr. Bishop-Henchman states that this does not make it a joint appointment but it must certainly does since it limits the Chair's authority. RONR is clear that the chair cannot unilaterally remove a member of a committee unless they had the power to unilaterally appoint. I will repost the point that Ms. Mattson made on this already: ==We have two entities here which jointly appoint non-LNC members to the COC. RONR addresses removal when an appointment is made by one person. RONR addresses removal when it's made by an assembly like the LNC. It doesn't really go into the scenario in which two entities have to agree for an appointment. What's the most reasonable approach for how such an appointment is reversed? If the two entities are considered together to be the appointing body, one entity is not a majority of the appointing body. Both entities have to agree to get to that majority threshold for the appointment. To reverse an appointment requires a motion to Rescind or to Amend Something Previously Adopted. These require a majority with notice, a majority of the entire membership, or a 2/3 vote. None of these thresholds can be met with just the LNC Chair without the COC. The chair seems to be taking the position that it requires consent from both to appoint, therefore if one of the two entities later withdraws consent, the appointment is reversed. This is not consistent with how RONR says committee appointments are reversed. But the equal application of this logic would say that, hypothetically speaking, if the COC removed its consent for a different non-LNC member of the COC, that person would no longer be on the committee, either, even if the Chair disagreed, right? Or if the LNC had made an LNC-member appointment with a 9-8 vote, that any of the 9 could later withdraw their consent and reverse the outcome. We all know that one person can't later withdraw the deciding vote to unilaterally kill a collective decision of the LNC. Now that the question is squarely in front of us and I'm having to develop a firm opinion about it, I'm having trouble seeing the merits of this view of how our joint-appointment policy works.== Mr. Richard Brown concurs with Ms. Mattson's reasoning. I will further add, though this is not directly to the procedure of the issue, but more to the justice of it. Mr. Sarwark had been publicly threatening Mr. Hayes with removal for a few weeks now which is an improper way to treat a volunteer. Anyone on FB is sure to remember the ominous "Insubordination is a gamble. Make your bets wisely" post a few days before the removal. Disagreeing with Mr. Sarwark who himself is insubordinate to the decisions of the LNC and CoC is not insubordination, and such tactics belong in the authoritarian old parties. *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 5:11 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:

The proverbs say one man seems right until another argues his case

I just ask you read subsequent arguments with an open mind. I have not yet spoken to my motion.

On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 4:34 PM Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair) via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

...

Wasn’t sure if my first email was sent, but agree with Joes reasoning so vote yes. Also, like Jo I agree these details should be made clearer for future situations.

Alex Merced Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP

...

...

--

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

...

On May 31, 2020, at 7:00 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

I’m reserving my vote and argument for one day to give the chair his privilege.

I would encourage others to do the same

I would also encourage members to seek the counsel of Richard Brown

...

On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 4:38 PM <joe.bishop-henchman@lp.org> wrote:

I vote yes, to sustain the ruling. The language of the policy manual is that the non-LNC members are "selected by the LNC Chair" on the recommendation of the COC. There is no explicit language governing dismissals.

While I would agree that a new member would need recommendation by the COC (although this may become moot due to a pending motion), our policy manual chose to be silent on the mechanism of dismissal and in that case it rests with who held appointment power. Presumably a Chair could refuse to appoint someone recommended by the COC, and the result would be a vacant seat. The Chair therefore ultimately selects the members.

In an analogous situation (President's removal of an appointee who had received Senate confirmation for a fixed term, with no explicit language governing dismissals), the U.S. Supreme Court held in Myers v. United States that the President may remove such a person. Congress since has deliberately included such language when the agency involved is intended to be independent of the executive branch, vs. when it is intended to be subordinate to the executive (or legislative). That case incidentally officially exonerated President Andrew Johnson, whose impeachment was pretextually about such a removal without Senate consent.

I've never been quite clear whether the COC is intended to be independent or subordinate, as they can act independently in some, but not all, decisions delegated to them. This lack of clarity also mitigates against insulating members from removal. I would support efforts to clarify it further, however.

JBH

On May 31, 2020 4:18 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

EMAIL BALLOT 200531-1 APPEAL FROM THE RULING OF THE CHAIR CONCERNING REMOVAL OF DANIEL HAYES FROM THE COC

We have an electronic mail ballot.

Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by June 7, 2020 at 11:59:59 pm Pacific time.

Co-Sponsors: Goldstein, Harlos, Longstreth, Phillips, Smith

=============================================

Motion: The Chair has ruled he can not only remove Daniel Hayes as CoC chair but also from the committee entirely. Harlos appeals from the ruling of the chair that he can remove Hayes from the committee without CoC approval since appointment required CoC approval.

=============================================

THRESHOLD REQUIRED: A majority vote is required to overturn the ruling of the chair.

You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VntkXkkuQouUiWbt9bnI_TjSMKDiTaDDpvsY... .

...

Votes are noted with a link to the actual ballot cast for verification. You can find the time that the manual tally was last updated at the bottom

of

...

the sheet.

Please notify me of any discrepancies.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know.

--

*In Liberty,*

* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *

I vote No on this motion. The Ruling of the Chair should be overturned. --- Sam Goldstein, At Large Member Libertarian National Committee Convention Oversight Committee 317-850-0726 Cell On 2020-06-02 06:28, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:

This point becomes all the more important as we hear how our Chair pressured the new CoC chair. Is she "insubordinate" now too?

•In Liberty,*

• Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 4:27 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:

...

Now that the chair has responded (in another thread) I will speak to my motion.

the Chair's response misses the point. He shows where he appointed past members without objection. No one disputes that because those members were recommended by the CoC. That is the whole point. He does not get to unilaterally appoint members per our Policy Manual. Mr. Bishop-Henchman states that this does not make it a joint appointment but it must certainly does since it limits the Chair's authority. RONR is clear that the chair cannot unilaterally remove a member of a committee unless they had the power to unilaterally appoint. I will repost the point that Ms. Mattson made on this already:

==We have two entities here which jointly appoint non-LNC members to the COC. RONR addresses removal when an appointment is made by one person. RONR addresses removal when it's made by an assembly like the LNC. It doesn't really go into the scenario in which two entities have to agree for an appointment.

What's the most reasonable approach for how such an appointment is reversed?

If the two entities are considered together to be the appointing body, one entity is not a majority of the appointing body. Both entities have to agree to get to that majority threshold for the appointment.

To reverse an appointment requires a motion to Rescind or to Amend Something Previously Adopted. These require a majority with notice, a majority of the entire membership, or a 2/3 vote. None of these thresholds can be met with just the LNC Chair without the COC.

The chair seems to be taking the position that it requires consent from both to appoint, therefore if one of the two entities later withdraws consent, the appointment is reversed. This is not consistent with how RONR says committee appointments are reversed. But the equal application of this logic would say that, hypothetically speaking, if the COC removed its consent for a different non-LNC member of the COC, that person would no longer be on the committee, either, even if the Chair disagreed, right? Or if the LNC had made an LNC-member appointment with a 9-8 vote, that any of the 9 could later withdraw their consent and reverse the outcome. We all know that one person can't later withdraw the deciding vote to unilaterally kill a collective decision of the LNC. Now that the question is squarely in front of us and I'm having to develop a firm opinion about it, I'm having trouble seeing the merits of this view of how our joint-appointment policy works.==

Mr. Richard Brown concurs with Ms. Mattson's reasoning.

I will further add, though this is not directly to the procedure of the issue, but more to the justice of it. Mr. Sarwark had been publicly threatening Mr. Hayes with removal for a few weeks now which is an improper way to treat a volunteer. Anyone on FB is sure to remember the ominous "Insubordination is a gamble. Make your bets wisely" post a few days before the removal. Disagreeing with Mr. Sarwark who himself is insubordinate to the decisions of the LNC and CoC is not insubordination, and such tactics belong in the authoritarian old parties.

•In Liberty,*

• Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 5:11 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:

...

The proverbs say one man seems right until another argues his case

I just ask you read subsequent arguments with an open mind. I have not yet spoken to my motion.

On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 4:34 PM Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair) via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

...

Wasn’t sure if my first email was sent, but agree with Joes reasoning so vote yes. Also, like Jo I agree these details should be made clearer for future situations.

Alex Merced Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP

...

On May 31, 2020, at 7:00 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

I’m reserving my vote and argument for one day to give the chair his privilege.

I would encourage others to do the same

I would also encourage members to seek the counsel of Richard Brown

...

On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 4:38 PM <joe.bishop-henchman@lp.org> wrote:

I vote yes, to sustain the ruling. The language of the policy manual is that the non-LNC members are "selected by the LNC Chair" on the recommendation of the COC. There is no explicit language governing dismissals.

While I would agree that a new member would need recommendation by the COC (although this may become moot due to a pending motion), our policy manual chose to be silent on the mechanism of dismissal and in that case it rests with who held appointment power. Presumably a Chair could refuse to appoint someone recommended by the COC, and the result would be a vacant seat. The Chair therefore ultimately selects the members.

In an analogous situation (President's removal of an appointee who had received Senate confirmation for a fixed term, with no explicit language governing dismissals), the U.S. Supreme Court held in Myers v. United States that the President may remove such a person. Congress since has deliberately included such language when the agency involved is intended to be independent of the executive branch, vs. when it is intended to be subordinate to the executive (or legislative). That case incidentally officially exonerated President Andrew Johnson, whose impeachment was pretextually about such a removal without Senate consent.

I've never been quite clear whether the COC is intended to be independent or subordinate, as they can act independently in some, but not all, decisions delegated to them. This lack of clarity also mitigates against insulating members from removal. I would support efforts to clarify it further, however.

JBH

On May 31, 2020 4:18 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

EMAIL BALLOT 200531-1 APPEAL FROM THE RULING OF THE CHAIR CONCERNING REMOVAL OF DANIEL HAYES FROM THE COC

We have an electronic mail ballot.

Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by June 7, 2020 at 11:59:59 pm Pacific time.

Co-Sponsors: Goldstein, Harlos, Longstreth, Phillips, Smith

=============================================

Motion: The Chair has ruled he can not only remove Daniel Hayes as CoC chair but also from the committee entirely. Harlos appeals from the ruling of the chair that he can remove Hayes from the committee without CoC approval since appointment required CoC approval.

=============================================

THRESHOLD REQUIRED: A majority vote is required to overturn the ruling of the chair.

You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VntkXkkuQouUiWbt9bnI_TjSMKDiTaDDpvsY... .

...

Votes are noted with a link to the actual ballot cast for

verification.

...

You can find the time that the manual tally was last updated at the bottom of the sheet.

Please notify me of any discrepancies.

• In Liberty,* • Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

--

• In Liberty,* • Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. •

--

•In Liberty,*

• Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *

Dear Ms. Harlos, I appreciate you taking the time to let us know that there are people who agree with your interpretation of who is allowed to vote and when. I disagree with your understanding and have voted. Yours in liberty, Nick On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 1:59 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

Mr Sarwark I confirmed with the RONR priesthood at the Roberts forum that my understanding was correct that the chair does not vote except if it changes the results.

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 11:51 AM <joshua.smith@lp.org> wrote:

...

I vote no on this motion. Someone told me that I voted yes initially, but I cannot find that vote anywhere. Regardless I vote no.

-Joshua

On Jun 6, 2020 9:36 AM, Jeff Hewitt via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

I vote no. Jeff Hewitt Region 4 Rep

On 2020-06-06 00:01, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business wrote:

...

I vote no.

-Alicia

On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 1:18 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

...

EMAIL BALLOT 200531-1 APPEAL FROM THE RULING OF THE CHAIR CONCERNING REMOVAL OF DANIEL HAYES FROM THE COC

We have an electronic mail ballot.

Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by June 7, 2020 at 11:59:59 pm Pacific time.

Co-Sponsors: Goldstein, Harlos, Longstreth, Phillips, Smith

=============================================

Motion: The Chair has ruled he can not only remove Daniel Hayes as CoC chair but also from the committee entirely. Harlos appeals from the ruling of the chair that he can remove Hayes from the committee without CoC approval since appointment required CoC approval.

=============================================

THRESHOLD REQUIRED: A majority vote is required to overturn the ruling of the chair.

You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VntkXkkuQouUiWbt9bnI_TjSMKDiTaDDpvsY...

...

...

...

. Votes are noted with a link to the actual ballot cast for verification. You can find the time that the manual tally was last updated at the bottom of the sheet.

Please notify me of any discrepancies.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

--

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

Doesn't this change when the vote has a specific closing time, as our Bylaws have for email ballots? Would the Chair have extra time past the seven days period for voting given in the Bylaws. I'll refer to RONR p. 414, lines 25-28, which is in the section covering voting by ballot: "The presiding officer, if a member of the assembly, can always vote in the case of a ballot at the time other members do. Should he fail to vote before the polls are closed, he cannot then do so without the permission of the assembly." --- Tim Hagan Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee On 2020-06-06 10:59, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:

Mr Sarwark I confirmed with the RONR priesthood at the Roberts forum that my understanding was correct that the chair does not vote except if it changes the results.

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 11:51 AM <joshua.smith@lp.org> wrote:

...

I vote no on this motion. Someone told me that I voted yes initially, but I cannot find that vote anywhere. Regardless I vote no.

-Joshua

On Jun 6, 2020 9:36 AM, Jeff Hewitt via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

I vote no. Jeff Hewitt Region 4 Rep

On 2020-06-06 00:01, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business wrote:

...

I vote no.

-Alicia

On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 1:18 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

...

EMAIL BALLOT 200531-1 APPEAL FROM THE RULING OF THE CHAIR CONCERNING REMOVAL OF DANIEL HAYES FROM THE COC

We have an electronic mail ballot.

Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by June 7, 2020 at 11:59:59 pm Pacific time.

Co-Sponsors: Goldstein, Harlos, Longstreth, Phillips, Smith

=============================================

Motion: The Chair has ruled he can not only remove Daniel Hayes as CoC chair but also from the committee entirely. Harlos appeals from the ruling of the chair that he can remove Hayes from the committee without CoC approval since appointment required CoC approval.

=============================================

THRESHOLD REQUIRED: A majority vote is required to overturn the ruling of the chair.

You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VntkXkkuQouUiWbt9bnI_TjSMKDiTaDDpvsY...

...

. Votes are noted with a link to the actual ballot cast for verification. You can find the time that the manual tally was last updated at the bottom of the sheet.

Please notify me of any discrepancies.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

--

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

I vote no and believe that the arguments have been thoroughly laid out. To Mr. Bishop-Henchman's point specifically, there is a distinct difference between the president appointing and the Senate then confirming versus the committee recommending and the chair then appointing. The spirit of your argument is certainly similar, but I see too much difference in the circumstances to be convinced. Richard Longstreth Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY) Libertarian National Committee richard.longstreth@lp.org 931.538.9300 Sent from my Mobile Device On Sat, Jun 6, 2020, 07:36 Jeff Hewitt via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

I vote no. Jeff Hewitt Region 4 Rep

On 2020-06-06 00:01, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business wrote:

...

I vote no.

-Alicia

On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 1:18 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

...

EMAIL BALLOT 200531-1 APPEAL FROM THE RULING OF THE CHAIR CONCERNING REMOVAL OF DANIEL HAYES FROM THE COC

We have an electronic mail ballot.

Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by June 7, 2020 at 11:59:59 pm Pacific time.

Co-Sponsors: Goldstein, Harlos, Longstreth, Phillips, Smith

=============================================

Motion: The Chair has ruled he can not only remove Daniel Hayes as CoC chair but also from the committee entirely. Harlos appeals from the ruling of the chair that he can remove Hayes from the committee without CoC approval since appointment required CoC approval.

=============================================

THRESHOLD REQUIRED: A majority vote is required to overturn the ruling of the chair.

You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VntkXkkuQouUiWbt9bnI_TjSMKDiTaDDpvsY...

...

. Votes are noted with a link to the actual ballot cast for verification. You can find the time that the manual tally was last updated at the bottom of the sheet.

Please notify me of any discrepancies.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

He does not have the unilateral power of appointment. He cannot appoint someone not recommended. He does have that power with regards to the chair. On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 12:50 AM Tucker Coburn <tucker.coburn@lp.org> wrote:

I vote yes.

As the Secretary has pointed out, this vote is about whether the Chair's action was proper, not whether we agree or disagree with it. For that reason and the explanation below, I would urge members that have voted no to reconsider, particularly those that have paid close attention to RONR over the past couple months.

Page 177 of Robert's is very clear in stating "Unless the bylaws or other governing rules provide otherwise, the appointing authority has the power to remove or replace members of the committee: If a single person, such as the president, has the power of appointment, he has the power to remove or replace a member so appointed; ..."

I disagree with the Secretary and Ms. Mattson. Though the policy manual provides for a recommendation from the Members of the COC, it explicitly leaves the selection to the Chair. Further to the point, the Secretary's Report (Pg 64) from the 2018 December LNC Meeting Minutes states, "The LNC Chair appointed Daniel Hayes, Ken Moellman, and Drew Layda as the non-LNC members of this committee." There is no mention of the COC members appointing these three as they did not: they recommended them to the Chair for selection.

The Chair has the sole power of appointment and thus also has the sole power to remove.

Thank you, -- Tucker Coburn LNC Region 8 Representative www.lp.org

On 2020-06-06 13:58, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business wrote:

...

I vote no and believe that the arguments have been thoroughly laid out.

To Mr. Bishop-Henchman's point specifically, there is a distinct difference between the president appointing and the Senate then confirming versus the committee recommending and the chair then appointing. The spirit of your argument is certainly similar, but I see too much difference in the circumstances to be convinced.

Richard Longstreth Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY) Libertarian National Committee richard.longstreth@lp.org 931.538.9300

Sent from my Mobile Device

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020, 07:36 Jeff Hewitt via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

...

I vote no. Jeff Hewitt Region 4 Rep

On 2020-06-06 00:01, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business wrote:

...

I vote no.

-Alicia

On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 1:18 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

...

EMAIL BALLOT 200531-1 APPEAL FROM THE RULING OF THE CHAIR CONCERNING REMOVAL OF DANIEL HAYES FROM THE COC

We have an electronic mail ballot.

Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by June 7, 2020 at 11:59:59 pm Pacific time.

Co-Sponsors: Goldstein, Harlos, Longstreth, Phillips, Smith

=============================================

Motion: The Chair has ruled he can not only remove Daniel Hayes as CoC chair but also from the committee entirely. Harlos appeals from the ruling of the chair that he can remove Hayes from the committee without CoC approval since appointment required CoC approval.

=============================================

THRESHOLD REQUIRED: A majority vote is required to overturn the ruling of the chair.

You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VntkXkkuQouUiWbt9bnI_TjSMKDiTaDDpvsY...

...

...

...

. Votes are noted with a link to the actual ballot cast for verification. You can find the time that the manual tally was last updated at the bottom of the sheet.

Please notify me of any discrepancies.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

--

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

Some emails got posted in the wrong thread. I am sure Mr. Coburn knows where the belonged. On this I remind the rest of the LNC that our convention parliamentarian Mr. Brown has concurred with Ms. Mattson and I. * In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. * On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 4:42 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

If you would like the direct quote from counsel I can provide it.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 4:42 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

...

He does not have the unilateral power of appointment. He cannot appoint someone not recommended. He does have that power with regards to the chair.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 12:50 AM Tucker Coburn <tucker.coburn@lp.org> wrote:

...

I vote yes.

As the Secretary has pointed out, this vote is about whether the Chair's action was proper, not whether we agree or disagree with it. For that reason and the explanation below, I would urge members that have voted no to reconsider, particularly those that have paid close attention to RONR over the past couple months.

Page 177 of Robert's is very clear in stating "Unless the bylaws or other governing rules provide otherwise, the appointing authority has the power to remove or replace members of the committee: If a single person, such as the president, has the power of appointment, he has the power to remove or replace a member so appointed; ..."

I disagree with the Secretary and Ms. Mattson. Though the policy manual provides for a recommendation from the Members of the COC, it explicitly leaves the selection to the Chair. Further to the point, the Secretary's Report (Pg 64) from the 2018 December LNC Meeting Minutes states, "The LNC Chair appointed Daniel Hayes, Ken Moellman, and Drew Layda as the non-LNC members of this committee." There is no mention of the COC members appointing these three as they did not: they recommended them to the Chair for selection.

The Chair has the sole power of appointment and thus also has the sole power to remove.

Thank you, -- Tucker Coburn LNC Region 8 Representative www.lp.org

On 2020-06-06 13:58, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business wrote:

...

I vote no and believe that the arguments have been thoroughly laid out.

To Mr. Bishop-Henchman's point specifically, there is a distinct difference between the president appointing and the Senate then confirming versus the committee recommending and the chair then appointing. The spirit of your argument is certainly similar, but I see too much difference in the circumstances to be convinced.

Richard Longstreth Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY) Libertarian National Committee richard.longstreth@lp.org 931.538.9300

Sent from my Mobile Device

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020, 07:36 Jeff Hewitt via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

...

I vote no. Jeff Hewitt Region 4 Rep

On 2020-06-06 00:01, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business wrote:

...

I vote no.

-Alicia

On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 1:18 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

> EMAIL BALLOT 200531-1 APPEAL FROM THE RULING OF THE CHAIR CONCERNING > REMOVAL OF DANIEL HAYES FROM THE COC > > We have an electronic mail ballot. > > Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by June 7, 2020 at 11:59:59 pm > Pacific time. > > Co-Sponsors: Goldstein, Harlos, Longstreth, Phillips, Smith > > ============================================= > > > Motion: The Chair has ruled he can not only remove Daniel Hayes as CoC > chair but also from the committee entirely. Harlos appeals from the > ruling > of the chair that he can remove Hayes from the committee without CoC > approval since appointment required CoC approval. > > ============================================= > > THRESHOLD REQUIRED: A majority vote is required to overturn the > ruling of > the chair. > > > You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here: > >

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VntkXkkuQouUiWbt9bnI_TjSMKDiTaDDpvsY...

...

...

> . > Votes are noted with a link to the actual ballot cast for > verification. You > can find the time that the manual tally was last updated at the bottom > of > the sheet. > > > Please notify me of any discrepancies. > > * In Liberty,* > * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome > (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If > anyone > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social > faux > pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. > * >

--

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

--

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

He has. And he has been following this discussion and has not yet reversed his analysis. * In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. * On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 6:41 AM Elizabeth Van Horn <elizabeth.vanhorn@lp.org> wrote:

I'll remind this committee that Mr. Brown has been known to be wrong, and to correct himself when someone points out a different argument.

--- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY) Chair-Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus http://www.lpcaucus.org/

On 2020-06-07 07:01, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:

...

Some emails got posted in the wrong thread. I am sure Mr. Coburn knows where the belonged.

On this I remind the rest of the LNC that our convention parliamentarian Mr. Brown has concurred with Ms. Mattson and I.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 4:42 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

...

If you would like the direct quote from counsel I can provide it.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 4:42 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

...

He does not have the unilateral power of appointment. He cannot appoint someone not recommended. He does have that power with regards to the chair.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 12:50 AM Tucker Coburn <tucker.coburn@lp.org> wrote:

...

I vote yes.

As the Secretary has pointed out, this vote is about whether the Chair's action was proper, not whether we agree or disagree with it. For that reason and the explanation below, I would urge members that have voted no to reconsider, particularly those that have paid close attention to RONR over the past couple months.

Page 177 of Robert's is very clear in stating the power to remove or replace members of the committee: If a single person, such as the president, has the power of appointment, he has the power to remove or replace a member so appointed; ...""Unless the bylaws or other governing rules provide otherwise, the appointing authority has

I disagree with the Secretary and Ms. Mattson. Though the policy manual provides for a recommendation from the Members of the COC, it explicitly leaves the selection to the Chair. Further to the point, the Secretary's Report (Pg 64) from the 2018 December LNC Meeting Minutes states, "The LNC Chair appointed Daniel Hayes, Ken Moellman, and Drew Layda as the non-LNC members of this committee." There is no mention of the COC members appointing these three as they did not: they recommended them to the Chair for selection.

The Chair has the sole power of appointment and thus also has the sole power to remove.

Thank you, -- Tucker Coburn LNC Region 8 Representative www.lp.org

On 2020-06-06 13:58, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business wrote:

...

I vote no and believe that the arguments have been thoroughly laid out.

To Mr. Bishop-Henchman's point specifically, there is a distinct difference between the president appointing and the Senate then confirming versus the committee recommending and the chair then appointing. The spirit of your argument is certainly similar, but I see too much difference in the circumstances to be convinced.

Richard Longstreth Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY) Libertarian National Committee richard.longstreth@lp.org 931.538.9300

Sent from my Mobile Device

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020, 07:36 Jeff Hewitt via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

> I vote no. Jeff Hewitt Region 4 Rep > > On 2020-06-06 00:01, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business wrote: > > I vote no. > > > > -Alicia > > > > > > On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 1:18 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < > > lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: > > > >> EMAIL BALLOT 200531-1 APPEAL FROM THE RULING OF THE CHAIR CONCERNING > >> REMOVAL OF DANIEL HAYES FROM THE COC > >> > >> We have an electronic mail ballot. > >> > >> Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by June 7, 2020 at 11:59:59 pm > >> Pacific time. > >> > >> Co-Sponsors: Goldstein, Harlos, Longstreth, Phillips, Smith > >> > >> ============================================= > >> > >> > >> Motion: The Chair has ruled he can not only remove Daniel Hayes as CoC > >> chair but also from the committee entirely. Harlos appeals from the > >> ruling > >> of the chair that he can remove Hayes from the committee without CoC > >> approval since appointment required CoC approval. > >> > >> ============================================= > >> > >> THRESHOLD REQUIRED: A majority vote is required to overturn the > >> ruling of > >> the chair. > >> > >> > >> You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here: > >> > >> >

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VntkXkkuQouUiWbt9bnI_TjSMKDiTaDDpvsY...

...

...

> >> . > >> Votes are noted with a link to the actual ballot cast for > >> verification. You > >> can find the time that the manual tally was last updated at the bottom > >> of > >> the sheet. > >> > >> > >> Please notify me of any discrepancies. > >> > >> * In Liberty,* > >> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome > >> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal > >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If > >> anyone > >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social > >> faux > >> pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. > >> * > >> >

--

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

--

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

I abstain. Bill Redpath On 2020-06-07 12:19, john.phillips--- via Lnc-business wrote:

I have been considering this vote.

The multiple levels of possible issues here raise red flags in both directions, especially with the things brought up in other threads.

Mr Coburn makes a good point in is his assertion that these votes should be taken about what is technically correct, however I believe he is incorrect on the clearness of the applicable rules, as several others have indicated different aspects that present a different picture. Mr Brown has given an opinion. Not just Mr Brown, but in my constant effort to base my votes on knowledge and logic I consulted some other parliamentarians as well. All of whom agreed they could argue both ways, that at best it was a grey area, so not clear cut. 2/3 indicated a very slight leaning against the ruling, but were clear to say it was very fine hair splitting and could go the other way.

As such, one must weigh not just the technical aspects, but the "rightness". Indeed that is often the case on appealing a ruling.

I have been considering changing my vote to abstain for these reasons, but as stated elsewhere am hoping to have some more response from other current members of the COC regarding the recent accusations before I make a decision. I have a feeling what it would be given their votes and conversations, but the entire board should know for certain, not guesswork based on assumption and implication as has become the current habit.

I also believe we should hear from the staff members mentioned.. I am aware of both sides of some of that, but clear statements from them would be better. I am aware of the difficulty that might place them in so perhaps off list might be better for that, I personally believe in public and transparent, but understand the reasoning not to.

Mr Hayes should also be given his time.

I feel compelled to point out that we have done a disservice to the party in the handling of this. The reasoning originally given for Mr Hayes removal did give rise to the questions regarding its justification, and continue to give rise to questions like perhaps the chair was merely attempting to avoid a black eye to the party, or perhaps is now just seizing upon justifications. I would like to believe the prior, but appearances ....

The continued behind the scenes maneuvering has only contributed to making things worse not better.

If it was the prior then a different approach should have been used. If these complaints are valid enough to justify the removal at the very least an executive session should have been called to discuss the complaints and make everyone aware, and with the timeline I know of should have begun far earlier.

Sadly given the broken threads I am unsure of when this vote ends and whether we have time to actually handle this properly. I hope that regardless of the outcome everyone will take lessons away from this for better handling in the future.

John Phillips Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative Cell 217-412-5973

On Jun 7, 2020 7:42 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

...

He has. And he has been following this discussion and has not yet reversed his analysis.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 6:41 AM Elizabeth Van Horn <elizabeth.vanhorn@lp.org> wrote:

...

I'll remind this committee that Mr. Brown has been known to be wrong, and to correct himself when someone points out a different argument.

--- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY) Chair-Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus http://www.lpcaucus.org/

On 2020-06-07 07:01, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:

...

Some emails got posted in the wrong thread. I am sure Mr. Coburn knows where the belonged.

On this I remind the rest of the LNC that our convention parliamentarian Mr. Brown has concurred with Ms. Mattson and I.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 4:42 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

...

If you would like the direct quote from counsel I can provide it.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 4:42 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

...

He does not have the unilateral power of appointment. He cannot appoint someone not recommended. He does have that power with regards to the chair.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 12:50 AM Tucker Coburn <tucker.coburn@lp.org> wrote:

> I vote yes. > > As the Secretary has pointed out, this vote is about whether the > Chair's > action was proper, not whether we agree or disagree with it. > For that reason and the explanation below, I would urge members that > have voted no to reconsider, particularly those that have paid close > attention to RONR over the past couple months. > > Page 177 of Robert's is very clear in stating > the power to remove or replace members of the committee: If a single > person, such as the president, has the power of appointment, he has > the > power to remove or replace a member so appointed; ...""Unless the > bylaws or > other governing rules provide otherwise, the appointing authority > has > > I disagree with the Secretary and Ms. Mattson. Though the policy > manual > provides for a recommendation from the Members of the COC, it > explicitly > leaves the selection to the Chair. Further to the point, the > Secretary's > Report (Pg 64) from the 2018 December LNC Meeting Minutes states, > "The > LNC Chair appointed Daniel Hayes, Ken Moellman, and Drew Layda as > the > non-LNC members of this committee." There is no mention of the COC > members appointing these three as they did not: they recommended > them to > the Chair for selection. > > The Chair has the sole power of appointment and thus also has the > sole > power to remove. > > Thank you, > -- > Tucker Coburn > LNC Region 8 Representative > www.lp.org > > On 2020-06-06 13:58, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business wrote: >> I vote no and believe that the arguments have been thoroughly laid out. >> >> To Mr. Bishop-Henchman's point specifically, there is a distinct >> difference >> between the president appointing and the Senate then confirming versus >> the >> committee recommending and the chair then appointing. The spirit of >> your >> argument is certainly similar, but I see too much difference in the >> circumstances to be convinced. >> >> Richard Longstreth >> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY) >> Libertarian National Committee >> richard.longstreth@lp.org >> 931.538.9300 >> >> Sent from my Mobile Device >> >> On Sat, Jun 6, 2020, 07:36 Jeff Hewitt via Lnc-business < >> lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >> >>> I vote no. Jeff Hewitt Region 4 Rep >>> >>> On 2020-06-06 00:01, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business wrote: >>> > I vote no. >>> > >>> > -Alicia >>> > >>> > >>> > On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 1:18 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < >>> > lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >>> > >>> >> EMAIL BALLOT 200531-1 APPEAL FROM THE RULING OF THE CHAIR > CONCERNING >>> >> REMOVAL OF DANIEL HAYES FROM THE COC >>> >> >>> >> We have an electronic mail ballot. >>> >> >>> >> Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by June 7, 2020 at 11:59:59 > pm >>> >> Pacific time. >>> >> >>> >> Co-Sponsors: Goldstein, Harlos, Longstreth, Phillips, Smith >>> >> >>> >> ============================================= >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Motion: The Chair has ruled he can not only remove Daniel Hayes as > CoC >>> >> chair but also from the committee entirely. Harlos appeals from > the >>> >> ruling >>> >> of the chair that he can remove Hayes from the committee without > CoC >>> >> approval since appointment required CoC approval. >>> >> >>> >> ============================================= >>> >> >>> >> THRESHOLD REQUIRED: A majority vote is required to overturn the >>> >> ruling of >>> >> the chair. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here: >>> >> >>> >> >>> > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VntkXkkuQouUiWbt9bnI_TjSMKDiTaDDpvsY... >>> >> . >>> >> Votes are noted with a link to the actual ballot cast for >>> >> verification. You >>> >> can find the time that the manual tally was last updated at the > bottom >>> >> of >>> >> the sheet. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Please notify me of any discrepancies. >>> >> >>> >> * In Liberty,* >>> >> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's > Syndrome >>> >> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal >>> >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If >>> >> anyone >>> >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other > social >>> >> faux >>> >> pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me > know. >>> >> * >>> >> >>> > > --

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

--

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Jun 7, 2020 7:42 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

...

He has. And he has been following this discussion and has not yet reversed his analysis.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 6:41 AM Elizabeth Van Horn <elizabeth.vanhorn@lp.org> wrote:

...

I'll remind this committee that Mr. Brown has been known to be wrong, and to correct himself when someone points out a different argument.

--- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY) Chair-Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus http://www.lpcaucus.org/

On 2020-06-07 07:01, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:

...

Some emails got posted in the wrong thread. I am sure Mr. Coburn knows where the belonged.

On this I remind the rest of the LNC that our convention parliamentarian Mr. Brown has concurred with Ms. Mattson and I.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 4:42 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

...

If you would like the direct quote from counsel I can provide it.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 4:42 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

...

He does not have the unilateral power of appointment. He cannot appoint someone not recommended. He does have that power with regards to the chair.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 12:50 AM Tucker Coburn <tucker.coburn@lp.org> wrote:

> I vote yes. > > As the Secretary has pointed out, this vote is about whether the > Chair's > action was proper, not whether we agree or disagree with it. > For that reason and the explanation below, I would urge members that > have voted no to reconsider, particularly those that have paid close > attention to RONR over the past couple months. > > Page 177 of Robert's is very clear in stating > the power to remove or replace members of the committee: If a single > person, such as the president, has the power of appointment, he has > the > power to remove or replace a member so appointed; ...""Unless the > bylaws or > other governing rules provide otherwise, the appointing authority > has > > I disagree with the Secretary and Ms. Mattson. Though the policy > manual > provides for a recommendation from the Members of the COC, it > explicitly > leaves the selection to the Chair. Further to the point, the > Secretary's > Report (Pg 64) from the 2018 December LNC Meeting Minutes states, > "The > LNC Chair appointed Daniel Hayes, Ken Moellman, and Drew Layda as > the > non-LNC members of this committee." There is no mention of the COC > members appointing these three as they did not: they recommended > them to > the Chair for selection. > > The Chair has the sole power of appointment and thus also has the > sole > power to remove. > > Thank you, > -- > Tucker Coburn > LNC Region 8 Representative > www.lp.org > > On 2020-06-06 13:58, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business wrote: >> I vote no and believe that the arguments have been thoroughly laid out. >> >> To Mr. Bishop-Henchman's point specifically, there is a distinct >> difference >> between the president appointing and the Senate then confirming versus >> the >> committee recommending and the chair then appointing. The spirit of >> your >> argument is certainly similar, but I see too much difference in the >> circumstances to be convinced. >> >> Richard Longstreth >> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY) >> Libertarian National Committee >> richard.longstreth@lp.org >> 931.538.9300 >> >> Sent from my Mobile Device >> >> On Sat, Jun 6, 2020, 07:36 Jeff Hewitt via Lnc-business < >> lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >> >>> I vote no. Jeff Hewitt Region 4 Rep >>> >>> On 2020-06-06 00:01, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business wrote: >>> > I vote no. >>> > >>> > -Alicia >>> > >>> > >>> > On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 1:18 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < >>> > lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >>> > >>> >> EMAIL BALLOT 200531-1 APPEAL FROM THE RULING OF THE CHAIR > CONCERNING >>> >> REMOVAL OF DANIEL HAYES FROM THE COC >>> >> >>> >> We have an electronic mail ballot. >>> >> >>> >> Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by June 7, 2020 at 11:59:59 > pm >>> >> Pacific time. >>> >> >>> >> Co-Sponsors: Goldstein, Harlos, Longstreth, Phillips, Smith >>> >> >>> >> ============================================= >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Motion: The Chair has ruled he can not only remove Daniel Hayes as > CoC >>> >> chair but also from the committee entirely. Harlos appeals from > the >>> >> ruling >>> >> of the chair that he can remove Hayes from the committee without > CoC >>> >> approval since appointment required CoC approval. >>> >> >>> >> ============================================= >>> >> >>> >> THRESHOLD REQUIRED: A majority vote is required to overturn the >>> >> ruling of >>> >> the chair. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here: >>> >> >>> >> >>> > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VntkXkkuQouUiWbt9bnI_TjSMKDiTaDDpvsY... >>> >> . >>> >> Votes are noted with a link to the actual ballot cast for >>> >> verification. You >>> >> can find the time that the manual tally was last updated at the > bottom >>> >> of >>> >> the sheet. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Please notify me of any discrepancies. >>> >> >>> >> * In Liberty,* >>> >> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's > Syndrome >>> >> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal >>> >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If >>> >> anyone >>> >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other > social >>> >> faux >>> >> pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me > know. >>> >> * >>> >> >>> > > --

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

--

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Jun 7, 2020 7:42 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

...

He has. And he has been following this discussion and has not yet reversed his analysis.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 6:41 AM Elizabeth Van Horn <elizabeth.vanhorn@lp.org> wrote:

...

I'll remind this committee that Mr. Brown has been known to be wrong, and to correct himself when someone points out a different argument.

--- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY) Chair-Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus http://www.lpcaucus.org/

On 2020-06-07 07:01, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:

...

Some emails got posted in the wrong thread. I am sure Mr. Coburn knows where the belonged.

On this I remind the rest of the LNC that our convention parliamentarian Mr. Brown has concurred with Ms. Mattson and I.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 4:42 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

...

If you would like the direct quote from counsel I can provide it.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 4:42 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

...

He does not have the unilateral power of appointment. He cannot appoint someone not recommended. He does have that power with regards to the chair.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 12:50 AM Tucker Coburn <tucker.coburn@lp.org> wrote:

> I vote yes. > > As the Secretary has pointed out, this vote is about whether the > Chair's > action was proper, not whether we agree or disagree with it. > For that reason and the explanation below, I would urge members that > have voted no to reconsider, particularly those that have paid close > attention to RONR over the past couple months. > > Page 177 of Robert's is very clear in stating > the power to remove or replace members of the committee: If a single > person, such as the president, has the power of appointment, he has > the > power to remove or replace a member so appointed; ...""Unless the > bylaws or > other governing rules provide otherwise, the appointing authority > has > > I disagree with the Secretary and Ms. Mattson. Though the policy > manual > provides for a recommendation from the Members of the COC, it > explicitly > leaves the selection to the Chair. Further to the point, the > Secretary's > Report (Pg 64) from the 2018 December LNC Meeting Minutes states, > "The > LNC Chair appointed Daniel Hayes, Ken Moellman, and Drew Layda as > the > non-LNC members of this committee." There is no mention of the COC > members appointing these three as they did not: they recommended > them to > the Chair for selection. > > The Chair has the sole power of appointment and thus also has the > sole > power to remove. > > Thank you, > -- > Tucker Coburn > LNC Region 8 Representative > www.lp.org > > On 2020-06-06 13:58, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business wrote: >> I vote no and believe that the arguments have been thoroughly laid out. >> >> To Mr. Bishop-Henchman's point specifically, there is a distinct >> difference >> between the president appointing and the Senate then confirming versus >> the >> committee recommending and the chair then appointing. The spirit of >> your >> argument is certainly similar, but I see too much difference in the >> circumstances to be convinced. >> >> Richard Longstreth >> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY) >> Libertarian National Committee >> richard.longstreth@lp.org >> 931.538.9300 >> >> Sent from my Mobile Device >> >> On Sat, Jun 6, 2020, 07:36 Jeff Hewitt via Lnc-business < >> lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >> >>> I vote no. Jeff Hewitt Region 4 Rep >>> >>> On 2020-06-06 00:01, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business wrote: >>> > I vote no. >>> > >>> > -Alicia >>> > >>> > >>> > On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 1:18 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < >>> > lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >>> > >>> >> EMAIL BALLOT 200531-1 APPEAL FROM THE RULING OF THE CHAIR > CONCERNING >>> >> REMOVAL OF DANIEL HAYES FROM THE COC >>> >> >>> >> We have an electronic mail ballot. >>> >> >>> >> Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by June 7, 2020 at 11:59:59 > pm >>> >> Pacific time. >>> >> >>> >> Co-Sponsors: Goldstein, Harlos, Longstreth, Phillips, Smith >>> >> >>> >> ============================================= >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Motion: The Chair has ruled he can not only remove Daniel Hayes as > CoC >>> >> chair but also from the committee entirely. Harlos appeals from > the >>> >> ruling >>> >> of the chair that he can remove Hayes from the committee without > CoC >>> >> approval since appointment required CoC approval. >>> >> >>> >> ============================================= >>> >> >>> >> THRESHOLD REQUIRED: A majority vote is required to overturn the >>> >> ruling of >>> >> the chair. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here: >>> >> >>> >> >>> > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VntkXkkuQouUiWbt9bnI_TjSMKDiTaDDpvsY... >>> >> . >>> >> Votes are noted with a link to the actual ballot cast for >>> >> verification. You >>> >> can find the time that the manual tally was last updated at the > bottom >>> >> of >>> >> the sheet. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Please notify me of any discrepancies. >>> >> >>> >> * In Liberty,* >>> >> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's > Syndrome >>> >> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal >>> >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If >>> >> anyone >>> >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other > social >>> >> faux >>> >> pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me > know. >>> >> * >>> >> >>> > > --

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

--

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Jun 7, 2020 7:42 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

...

He has. And he has been following this discussion and has not yet reversed his analysis.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 6:41 AM Elizabeth Van Horn <elizabeth.vanhorn@lp.org> wrote:

...

I'll remind this committee that Mr. Brown has been known to be wrong, and to correct himself when someone points out a different argument.

--- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY) Chair-Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus http://www.lpcaucus.org/

On 2020-06-07 07:01, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:

...

Some emails got posted in the wrong thread. I am sure Mr. Coburn knows where the belonged.

On this I remind the rest of the LNC that our convention parliamentarian Mr. Brown has concurred with Ms. Mattson and I.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 4:42 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

...

If you would like the direct quote from counsel I can provide it.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 4:42 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

...

He does not have the unilateral power of appointment. He cannot appoint someone not recommended. He does have that power with regards to the chair.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 12:50 AM Tucker Coburn <tucker.coburn@lp.org> wrote:

> I vote yes. > > As the Secretary has pointed out, this vote is about whether the > Chair's > action was proper, not whether we agree or disagree with it. > For that reason and the explanation below, I would urge members that > have voted no to reconsider, particularly those that have paid close > attention to RONR over the past couple months. > > Page 177 of Robert's is very clear in stating > the power to remove or replace members of the committee: If a single > person, such as the president, has the power of appointment, he has > the > power to remove or replace a member so appointed; ...""Unless the > bylaws or > other governing rules provide otherwise, the appointing authority > has > > I disagree with the Secretary and Ms. Mattson. Though the policy > manual > provides for a recommendation from the Members of the COC, it > explicitly > leaves the selection to the Chair. Further to the point, the > Secretary's > Report (Pg 64) from the 2018 December LNC Meeting Minutes states, > "The > LNC Chair appointed Daniel Hayes, Ken Moellman, and Drew Layda as > the > non-LNC members of this committee." There is no mention of the COC > members appointing these three as they did not: they recommended > them to > the Chair for selection. > > The Chair has the sole power of appointment and thus also has the > sole > power to remove. > > Thank you, > -- > Tucker Coburn > LNC Region 8 Representative > www.lp.org > > On 2020-06-06 13:58, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business wrote: >> I vote no and believe that the arguments have been thoroughly laid out. >> >> To Mr. Bishop-Henchman's point specifically, there is a distinct >> difference >> between the president appointing and the Senate then confirming versus >> the >> committee recommending and the chair then appointing. The spirit of >> your >> argument is certainly similar, but I see too much difference in the >> circumstances to be convinced. >> >> Richard Longstreth >> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY) >> Libertarian National Committee >> richard.longstreth@lp.org >> 931.538.9300 >> >> Sent from my Mobile Device >> >> On Sat, Jun 6, 2020, 07:36 Jeff Hewitt via Lnc-business < >> lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >> >>> I vote no. Jeff Hewitt Region 4 Rep >>> >>> On 2020-06-06 00:01, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business wrote: >>> > I vote no. >>> > >>> > -Alicia >>> > >>> > >>> > On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 1:18 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < >>> > lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >>> > >>> >> EMAIL BALLOT 200531-1 APPEAL FROM THE RULING OF THE CHAIR > CONCERNING >>> >> REMOVAL OF DANIEL HAYES FROM THE COC >>> >> >>> >> We have an electronic mail ballot. >>> >> >>> >> Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by June 7, 2020 at 11:59:59 > pm >>> >> Pacific time. >>> >> >>> >> Co-Sponsors: Goldstein, Harlos, Longstreth, Phillips, Smith >>> >> >>> >> ============================================= >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Motion: The Chair has ruled he can not only remove Daniel Hayes as > CoC >>> >> chair but also from the committee entirely. Harlos appeals from > the >>> >> ruling >>> >> of the chair that he can remove Hayes from the committee without > CoC >>> >> approval since appointment required CoC approval. >>> >> >>> >> ============================================= >>> >> >>> >> THRESHOLD REQUIRED: A majority vote is required to overturn the >>> >> ruling of >>> >> the chair. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here: >>> >> >>> >> >>> > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VntkXkkuQouUiWbt9bnI_TjSMKDiTaDDpvsY... >>> >> . >>> >> Votes are noted with a link to the actual ballot cast for >>> >> verification. You >>> >> can find the time that the manual tally was last updated at the > bottom >>> >> of >>> >> the sheet. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Please notify me of any discrepancies. >>> >> >>> >> * In Liberty,* >>> >> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's > Syndrome >>> >> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal >>> >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If >>> >> anyone >>> >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other > social >>> >> faux >>> >> pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me > know. >>> >> * >>> >> >>> > > --

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

--

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Jun 7, 2020 7:42 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

...

He has. And he has been following this discussion and has not yet reversed his analysis.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 6:41 AM Elizabeth Van Horn <elizabeth.vanhorn@lp.org> wrote:

...

I'll remind this committee that Mr. Brown has been known to be wrong, and to correct himself when someone points out a different argument.

--- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY) Chair-Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus http://www.lpcaucus.org/

On 2020-06-07 07:01, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:

...

Some emails got posted in the wrong thread. I am sure Mr. Coburn knows where the belonged.

On this I remind the rest of the LNC that our convention parliamentarian Mr. Brown has concurred with Ms. Mattson and I.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 4:42 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

...

If you would like the direct quote from counsel I can provide it.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 4:42 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

...

He does not have the unilateral power of appointment. He cannot appoint someone not recommended. He does have that power with regards to the chair.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 12:50 AM Tucker Coburn <tucker.coburn@lp.org> wrote:

> I vote yes. > > As the Secretary has pointed out, this vote is about whether the > Chair's > action was proper, not whether we agree or disagree with it. > For that reason and the explanation below, I would urge members that > have voted no to reconsider, particularly those that have paid close > attention to RONR over the past couple months. > > Page 177 of Robert's is very clear in stating > the power to remove or replace members of the committee: If a single > person, such as the president, has the power of appointment, he has > the > power to remove or replace a member so appointed; ...""Unless the > bylaws or > other governing rules provide otherwise, the appointing authority > has > > I disagree with the Secretary and Ms. Mattson. Though the policy > manual > provides for a recommendation from the Members of the COC, it > explicitly > leaves the selection to the Chair. Further to the point, the > Secretary's > Report (Pg 64) from the 2018 December LNC Meeting Minutes states, > "The > LNC Chair appointed Daniel Hayes, Ken Moellman, and Drew Layda as > the > non-LNC members of this committee." There is no mention of the COC > members appointing these three as they did not: they recommended > them to > the Chair for selection. > > The Chair has the sole power of appointment and thus also has the > sole > power to remove. > > Thank you, > -- > Tucker Coburn > LNC Region 8 Representative > www.lp.org > > On 2020-06-06 13:58, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business wrote: >> I vote no and believe that the arguments have been thoroughly laid out. >> >> To Mr. Bishop-Henchman's point specifically, there is a distinct >> difference >> between the president appointing and the Senate then confirming versus >> the >> committee recommending and the chair then appointing. The spirit of >> your >> argument is certainly similar, but I see too much difference in the >> circumstances to be convinced. >> >> Richard Longstreth >> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY) >> Libertarian National Committee >> richard.longstreth@lp.org >> 931.538.9300 >> >> Sent from my Mobile Device >> >> On Sat, Jun 6, 2020, 07:36 Jeff Hewitt via Lnc-business < >> lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >> >>> I vote no. Jeff Hewitt Region 4 Rep >>> >>> On 2020-06-06 00:01, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business wrote: >>> > I vote no. >>> > >>> > -Alicia >>> > >>> > >>> > On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 1:18 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < >>> > lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >>> > >>> >> EMAIL BALLOT 200531-1 APPEAL FROM THE RULING OF THE CHAIR > CONCERNING >>> >> REMOVAL OF DANIEL HAYES FROM THE COC >>> >> >>> >> We have an electronic mail ballot. >>> >> >>> >> Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by June 7, 2020 at 11:59:59 > pm >>> >> Pacific time. >>> >> >>> >> Co-Sponsors: Goldstein, Harlos, Longstreth, Phillips, Smith >>> >> >>> >> ============================================= >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Motion: The Chair has ruled he can not only remove Daniel Hayes as > CoC >>> >> chair but also from the committee entirely. Harlos appeals from > the >>> >> ruling >>> >> of the chair that he can remove Hayes from the committee without > CoC >>> >> approval since appointment required CoC approval. >>> >> >>> >> ============================================= >>> >> >>> >> THRESHOLD REQUIRED: A majority vote is required to overturn the >>> >> ruling of >>> >> the chair. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here: >>> >> >>> >> >>> > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VntkXkkuQouUiWbt9bnI_TjSMKDiTaDDpvsY... >>> >> . >>> >> Votes are noted with a link to the actual ballot cast for >>> >> verification. You >>> >> can find the time that the manual tally was last updated at the > bottom >>> >> of >>> >> the sheet. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Please notify me of any discrepancies. >>> >> >>> >> * In Liberty,* >>> >> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's > Syndrome >>> >> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal >>> >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If >>> >> anyone >>> >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other > social >>> >> faux >>> >> pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me > know. >>> >> * >>> >> >>> > > --

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

--

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Jun 7, 2020 7:42 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

...

He has. And he has been following this discussion and has not yet reversed his analysis.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 6:41 AM Elizabeth Van Horn <elizabeth.vanhorn@lp.org> wrote:

...

I'll remind this committee that Mr. Brown has been known to be wrong, and to correct himself when someone points out a different argument.

--- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY) Chair-Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus http://www.lpcaucus.org/

On 2020-06-07 07:01, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:

...

Some emails got posted in the wrong thread. I am sure Mr. Coburn knows where the belonged.

On this I remind the rest of the LNC that our convention parliamentarian Mr. Brown has concurred with Ms. Mattson and I.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 4:42 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

...

If you would like the direct quote from counsel I can provide it.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 4:42 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

...

He does not have the unilateral power of appointment. He cannot appoint someone not recommended. He does have that power with regards to the chair.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 12:50 AM Tucker Coburn <tucker.coburn@lp.org> wrote:

> I vote yes. > > As the Secretary has pointed out, this vote is about whether the > Chair's > action was proper, not whether we agree or disagree with it. > For that reason and the explanation below, I would urge members that > have voted no to reconsider, particularly those that have paid close > attention to RONR over the past couple months. > > Page 177 of Robert's is very clear in stating > the power to remove or replace members of the committee: If a single > person, such as the president, has the power of appointment, he has > the > power to remove or replace a member so appointed; ...""Unless the > bylaws or > other governing rules provide otherwise, the appointing authority > has > > I disagree with the Secretary and Ms. Mattson. Though the policy > manual > provides for a recommendation from the Members of the COC, it > explicitly > leaves the selection to the Chair. Further to the point, the > Secretary's > Report (Pg 64) from the 2018 December LNC Meeting Minutes states, > "The > LNC Chair appointed Daniel Hayes, Ken Moellman, and Drew Layda as > the > non-LNC members of this committee." There is no mention of the COC > members appointing these three as they did not: they recommended > them to > the Chair for selection. > > The Chair has the sole power of appointment and thus also has the > sole > power to remove. > > Thank you, > -- > Tucker Coburn > LNC Region 8 Representative > www.lp.org > > On 2020-06-06 13:58, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business wrote: >> I vote no and believe that the arguments have been thoroughly laid out. >> >> To Mr. Bishop-Henchman's point specifically, there is a distinct >> difference >> between the president appointing and the Senate then confirming versus >> the >> committee recommending and the chair then appointing. The spirit of >> your >> argument is certainly similar, but I see too much difference in the >> circumstances to be convinced. >> >> Richard Longstreth >> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY) >> Libertarian National Committee >> richard.longstreth@lp.org >> 931.538.9300 >> >> Sent from my Mobile Device >> >> On Sat, Jun 6, 2020, 07:36 Jeff Hewitt via Lnc-business < >> lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >> >>> I vote no. Jeff Hewitt Region 4 Rep >>> >>> On 2020-06-06 00:01, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business wrote: >>> > I vote no. >>> > >>> > -Alicia >>> > >>> > >>> > On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 1:18 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < >>> > lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >>> > >>> >> EMAIL BALLOT 200531-1 APPEAL FROM THE RULING OF THE CHAIR > CONCERNING >>> >> REMOVAL OF DANIEL HAYES FROM THE COC >>> >> >>> >> We have an electronic mail ballot. >>> >> >>> >> Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by June 7, 2020 at 11:59:59 > pm >>> >> Pacific time. >>> >> >>> >> Co-Sponsors: Goldstein, Harlos, Longstreth, Phillips, Smith >>> >> >>> >> ============================================= >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Motion: The Chair has ruled he can not only remove Daniel Hayes as > CoC >>> >> chair but also from the committee entirely. Harlos appeals from > the >>> >> ruling >>> >> of the chair that he can remove Hayes from the committee without > CoC >>> >> approval since appointment required CoC approval. >>> >> >>> >> ============================================= >>> >> >>> >> THRESHOLD REQUIRED: A majority vote is required to overturn the >>> >> ruling of >>> >> the chair. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here: >>> >> >>> >> >>> > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VntkXkkuQouUiWbt9bnI_TjSMKDiTaDDpvsY... >>> >> . >>> >> Votes are noted with a link to the actual ballot cast for >>> >> verification. You >>> >> can find the time that the manual tally was last updated at the > bottom >>> >> of >>> >> the sheet. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Please notify me of any discrepancies. >>> >> >>> >> * In Liberty,* >>> >> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's > Syndrome >>> >> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal >>> >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If >>> >> anyone >>> >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other > social >>> >> faux >>> >> pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me > know. >>> >> * >>> >> >>> > > --

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

--

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Jun 7, 2020 7:42 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:

...

He has. And he has been following this discussion and has not yet reversed his analysis.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 6:41 AM Elizabeth Van Horn <elizabeth.vanhorn@lp.org> wrote:

...

I'll remind this committee that Mr. Brown has been known to be wrong, and to correct himself when someone points out a different argument.

--- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY) Chair-Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus http://www.lpcaucus.org/

On 2020-06-07 07:01, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:

...

Some emails got posted in the wrong thread. I am sure Mr. Coburn knows where the belonged.

On this I remind the rest of the LNC that our convention parliamentarian Mr. Brown has concurred with Ms. Mattson and I.

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 4:42 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

...

If you would like the direct quote from counsel I can provide it.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 4:42 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:

...

He does not have the unilateral power of appointment. He cannot appoint someone not recommended. He does have that power with regards to the chair.

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 12:50 AM Tucker Coburn <tucker.coburn@lp.org> wrote:

> I vote yes. > > As the Secretary has pointed out, this vote is about whether the > Chair's > action was proper, not whether we agree or disagree with it. > For that reason and the explanation below, I would urge members that > have voted no to reconsider, particularly those that have paid close > attention to RONR over the past couple months. > > Page 177 of Robert's is very clear in stating > the power to remove or replace members of the committee: If a single > person, such as the president, has the power of appointment, he has > the > power to remove or replace a member so appointed; ...""Unless the > bylaws or > other governing rules provide otherwise, the appointing authority > has > > I disagree with the Secretary and Ms. Mattson. Though the policy > manual > provides for a recommendation from the Members of the COC, it > explicitly > leaves the selection to the Chair. Further to the point, the > Secretary's > Report (Pg 64) from the 2018 December LNC Meeting Minutes states, > "The > LNC Chair appointed Daniel Hayes, Ken Moellman, and Drew Layda as > the > non-LNC members of this committee." There is no mention of the COC > members appointing these three as they did not: they recommended > them to > the Chair for selection. > > The Chair has the sole power of appointment and thus also has the > sole > power to remove. > > Thank you, > -- > Tucker Coburn > LNC Region 8 Representative > www.lp.org > > On 2020-06-06 13:58, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business wrote: >> I vote no and believe that the arguments have been thoroughly laid out. >> >> To Mr. Bishop-Henchman's point specifically, there is a distinct >> difference >> between the president appointing and the Senate then confirming versus >> the >> committee recommending and the chair then appointing. The spirit of >> your >> argument is certainly similar, but I see too much difference in the >> circumstances to be convinced. >> >> Richard Longstreth >> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY) >> Libertarian National Committee >> richard.longstreth@lp.org >> 931.538.9300 >> >> Sent from my Mobile Device >> >> On Sat, Jun 6, 2020, 07:36 Jeff Hewitt via Lnc-business < >> lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >> >>> I vote no. Jeff Hewitt Region 4 Rep >>> >>> On 2020-06-06 00:01, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business wrote: >>> > I vote no. >>> > >>> > -Alicia >>> > >>> > >>> > On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 1:18 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < >>> > lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >>> > >>> >> EMAIL BALLOT 200531-1 APPEAL FROM THE RULING OF THE CHAIR > CONCERNING >>> >> REMOVAL OF DANIEL HAYES FROM THE COC >>> >> >>> >> We have an electronic mail ballot. >>> >> >>> >> Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by June 7, 2020 at 11:59:59 > pm >>> >> Pacific time. >>> >> >>> >> Co-Sponsors: Goldstein, Harlos, Longstreth, Phillips, Smith >>> >> >>> >> ============================================= >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Motion: The Chair has ruled he can not only remove Daniel Hayes as > CoC >>> >> chair but also from the committee entirely. Harlos appeals from > the >>> >> ruling >>> >> of the chair that he can remove Hayes from the committee without > CoC >>> >> approval since appointment required CoC approval. >>> >> >>> >> ============================================= >>> >> >>> >> THRESHOLD REQUIRED: A majority vote is required to overturn the >>> >> ruling of >>> >> the chair. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here: >>> >> >>> >> >>> > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VntkXkkuQouUiWbt9bnI_TjSMKDiTaDDpvsY... >>> >> . >>> >> Votes are noted with a link to the actual ballot cast for >>> >> verification. You >>> >> can find the time that the manual tally was last updated at the > bottom >>> >> of >>> >> the sheet. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Please notify me of any discrepancies. >>> >> >>> >> * In Liberty,* >>> >> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's > Syndrome >>> >> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal >>> >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If >>> >> anyone >>> >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other > social >>> >> faux >>> >> pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me > know. >>> >> * >>> >> >>> > > --

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *

--

* In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know. *