Seeking cosponsors - convention motion
I ask for email ballot co-sponsors for the following motion to: Rescind in its entirety the motion adopted during the May 9, 2020 LNC meeting, which called for a convention to begin on May 22, 2020 with business conducted online. Instead, in accordance with Bylaw Article 10.1, the LNC calls an in-person convention to occur during the dates of July 8-12, 2020 at Rosen Shingle Creek in Orlando, Florida. I know that I was on the losing side of a 13-4 motion on Saturday, however after tonight's train-wreck and the information I learned during it, I believe that some LNC members from the other side are ready to change course. If I did not believe that to be the case, I would not offer this motion. To preserve options for the LNC, given the 7-day voting period for an email ballot, I want to start this motion now so that it can complete by next Wednesday. I will have a LOT to say about this soon, as will others, but my first focus is getting the co-sponsors. Then we can debate. -Alicia <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
I will cosponsor. Jeff Hewitt Region 4 Rep On 2020-05-13 20:04, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business wrote:
I ask for email ballot co-sponsors for the following motion to:
Rescind in its entirety the motion adopted during the May 9, 2020 LNC meeting, which called for a convention to begin on May 22, 2020 with business conducted online. Instead, in accordance with Bylaw Article 10.1, the LNC calls an in-person convention to occur during the dates of July 8-12, 2020 at Rosen Shingle Creek in Orlando, Florida.
I know that I was on the losing side of a 13-4 motion on Saturday, however after tonight's train-wreck and the information I learned during it, I believe that some LNC members from the other side are ready to change course. If I did not believe that to be the case, I would not offer this motion. To preserve options for the LNC, given the 7-day voting period for an email ballot, I want to start this motion now so that it can complete by next Wednesday.
I will have a LOT to say about this soon, as will others, but my first focus is getting the co-sponsors. Then we can debate.
-Alicia
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
I will co-sponsor. On Wed, May 13, 2020, 10:04 PM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I ask for email ballot co-sponsors for the following motion to:
Rescind in its entirety the motion adopted during the May 9, 2020 LNC meeting, which called for a convention to begin on May 22, 2020 with business conducted online. Instead, in accordance with Bylaw Article 10.1, the LNC calls an in-person convention to occur during the dates of July 8-12, 2020 at Rosen Shingle Creek in Orlando, Florida.
I know that I was on the losing side of a 13-4 motion on Saturday, however after tonight's train-wreck and the information I learned during it, I believe that some LNC members from the other side are ready to change course. If I did not believe that to be the case, I would not offer this motion. To preserve options for the LNC, given the 7-day voting period for an email ballot, I want to start this motion now so that it can complete by next Wednesday.
I will have a LOT to say about this soon, as will others, but my first focus is getting the co-sponsors. Then we can debate.
-Alicia
< http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_camp...
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Email ballots do not require four co-sponsors from the winning side. The sponsors are like seconds. I have not decided if I am going to support this motion, but I am not going to let it get squashed by procedure. But you are incorrect on the point of order to begin with. We are not in the same session. That requirement for the winning side is only in the same session. A rescind does not require someone on the winning side. If you need the RONR pages, I can provide them. *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:48 PM justin.odonnell--- via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I object to this motion.
The purpose of the compromise we came to was to accomodate ballot access deadlines and the recognition that a July date made doing so impossible or impractical. Ignoring those concerns is irresponsible and damaging to the Party. Furthermore, we waited too long to make a decision in the first place, this is on us. We all knew well before last weekend that Memorial Day in Texas wasn't going to fly in the current climate, we have noone but ourselves to blame for letting things get to this point with wishful thinking. Its time to stop acting childish, suck it up, and make the best of the situation we're in.
On parliamentary grounds, a motion to reconsider is required to be made by a member of the prevailing side, I would argue that an email ballot requires 4 valid cosponsors, and thus would require 4 members from the prevailing side to cosponsor in order to be a valid motion.
Justin O'Donnell LNC Region 8 Representative
On May 13, 2020 11:04 PM, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I ask for email ballot co-sponsors for the following motion to:
Rescind in its entirety the motion adopted during the May 9, 2020 LNC meeting, which called for a convention to begin on May 22, 2020 with business conducted online. Instead, in accordance with Bylaw Article 10.1, the LNC calls an in-person convention to occur during the dates of July 8-12, 2020 at Rosen Shingle Creek in Orlando, Florida.
I know that I was on the losing side of a 13-4 motion on Saturday, however after tonight's train-wreck and the information I learned during it, I believe that some LNC members from the other side are ready to change course. If I did not believe that to be the case, I would not offer this motion. To preserve options for the LNC, given the 7-day voting period for an email ballot, I want to start this motion now so that it can complete by next Wednesday.
I will have a LOT to say about this soon, as will others, but my first focus is getting the co-sponsors. Then we can debate.
-Alicia
Virus-free. www.avg.com < http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
EVH, I think your point has merit. If this motion passes, I would re-offer the Erin Adams compromise motion or something very similar unless someone convinces me that would be unwise.
From what I hear from what happened tonight - not the things that will be fixed with practices - but with the inherent flaws that make this NOT a deliberative process and our chair's comments about points of order and parliamentary inquiry, I do not believe we can pull this off and protect rights. If that is the route the LNC decides to take, I will respect it and do my best, but the best at impossible is still impossible.
But we did commit to a compromise. But our compromise where our chair has vowed to skuttle it is no compromise. We need one that cannot be skuttled by the chair. Ms. Adams' compromise is far superior. After getting some advise, I may be seeking co-sponsors for a concurrent ballot with this one to expire after it that would adopt the Adams motion. *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:23 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
Email ballots do not require four co-sponsors from the winning side. The sponsors are like seconds. I have not decided if I am going to support this motion, but I am not going to let it get squashed by procedure. But you are incorrect on the point of order to begin with. We are not in the same session. That requirement for the winning side is only in the same session. A rescind does not require someone on the winning side. If you need the RONR pages, I can provide them.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:48 PM justin.odonnell--- via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I object to this motion.
The purpose of the compromise we came to was to accomodate ballot access deadlines and the recognition that a July date made doing so impossible or impractical. Ignoring those concerns is irresponsible and damaging to the Party. Furthermore, we waited too long to make a decision in the first place, this is on us. We all knew well before last weekend that Memorial Day in Texas wasn't going to fly in the current climate, we have noone but ourselves to blame for letting things get to this point with wishful thinking. Its time to stop acting childish, suck it up, and make the best of the situation we're in.
On parliamentary grounds, a motion to reconsider is required to be made by a member of the prevailing side, I would argue that an email ballot requires 4 valid cosponsors, and thus would require 4 members from the prevailing side to cosponsor in order to be a valid motion.
Justin O'Donnell LNC Region 8 Representative
On May 13, 2020 11:04 PM, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I ask for email ballot co-sponsors for the following motion to:
Rescind in its entirety the motion adopted during the May 9, 2020 LNC meeting, which called for a convention to begin on May 22, 2020 with business conducted online. Instead, in accordance with Bylaw Article 10.1, the LNC calls an in-person convention to occur during the dates of July 8-12, 2020 at Rosen Shingle Creek in Orlando, Florida.
I know that I was on the losing side of a 13-4 motion on Saturday, however after tonight's train-wreck and the information I learned during it, I believe that some LNC members from the other side are ready to change course. If I did not believe that to be the case, I would not offer this motion. To preserve options for the LNC, given the 7-day voting period for an email ballot, I want to start this motion now so that it can complete by next Wednesday.
I will have a LOT to say about this soon, as will others, but my first focus is getting the co-sponsors. Then we can debate.
-Alicia
Virus-free. www.avg.com < http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
Mr. Phillips we can concurrently offer the Adams compromise that would be a ballot that expires concurrently with this one or one day later. *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
EVH, I think your point has merit. If this motion passes, I would re-offer the Erin Adams compromise motion or something very similar unless someone convinces me that would be unwise.
From what I hear from what happened tonight - not the things that will be fixed with practices - but with the inherent flaws that make this NOT a deliberative process and our chair's comments about points of order and parliamentary inquiry, I do not believe we can pull this off and protect rights. If that is the route the LNC decides to take, I will respect it and do my best, but the best at impossible is still impossible.
But we did commit to a compromise. But our compromise where our chair has vowed to skuttle it is no compromise. We need one that cannot be skuttled by the chair. Ms. Adams' compromise is far superior. After getting some advise, I may be seeking co-sponsors for a concurrent ballot with this one to expire after it that would adopt the Adams motion.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:23 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
Email ballots do not require four co-sponsors from the winning side. The sponsors are like seconds. I have not decided if I am going to support this motion, but I am not going to let it get squashed by procedure. But you are incorrect on the point of order to begin with. We are not in the same session. That requirement for the winning side is only in the same session. A rescind does not require someone on the winning side. If you need the RONR pages, I can provide them.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:48 PM justin.odonnell--- via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I object to this motion.
The purpose of the compromise we came to was to accomodate ballot access deadlines and the recognition that a July date made doing so impossible or impractical. Ignoring those concerns is irresponsible and damaging to the Party. Furthermore, we waited too long to make a decision in the first place, this is on us. We all knew well before last weekend that Memorial Day in Texas wasn't going to fly in the current climate, we have noone but ourselves to blame for letting things get to this point with wishful thinking. Its time to stop acting childish, suck it up, and make the best of the situation we're in.
On parliamentary grounds, a motion to reconsider is required to be made by a member of the prevailing side, I would argue that an email ballot requires 4 valid cosponsors, and thus would require 4 members from the prevailing side to cosponsor in order to be a valid motion.
Justin O'Donnell LNC Region 8 Representative
On May 13, 2020 11:04 PM, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I ask for email ballot co-sponsors for the following motion to:
Rescind in its entirety the motion adopted during the May 9, 2020 LNC meeting, which called for a convention to begin on May 22, 2020 with business conducted online. Instead, in accordance with Bylaw Article 10.1, the LNC calls an in-person convention to occur during the dates of July 8-12, 2020 at Rosen Shingle Creek in Orlando, Florida.
I know that I was on the losing side of a 13-4 motion on Saturday, however after tonight's train-wreck and the information I learned during it, I believe that some LNC members from the other side are ready to change course. If I did not believe that to be the case, I would not offer this motion. To preserve options for the LNC, given the 7-day voting period for an email ballot, I want to start this motion now so that it can complete by next Wednesday.
I will have a LOT to say about this soon, as will others, but my first focus is getting the co-sponsors. Then we can debate.
-Alicia
Virus-free. www.avg.com < http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
I will co-sponsor. I want to give my reasons. The chair is subverting the will of the LNC, and the LNC needs to take back its rightful control of its own decisions. I do not know if I am going to vote for it. But it needs to be heard. If a concurrent motion is offered to have an acceptable compromise, I will definitely vote for this. But without such I do not know my answer. But I will co-sponsor as a sign of my objection to the usurping of the authority of the LNC by one person. *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
Mr. Phillips we can concurrently offer the Adams compromise that would be a ballot that expires concurrently with this one or one day later.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
EVH, I think your point has merit. If this motion passes, I would re-offer the Erin Adams compromise motion or something very similar unless someone convinces me that would be unwise.
From what I hear from what happened tonight - not the things that will be fixed with practices - but with the inherent flaws that make this NOT a deliberative process and our chair's comments about points of order and parliamentary inquiry, I do not believe we can pull this off and protect rights. If that is the route the LNC decides to take, I will respect it and do my best, but the best at impossible is still impossible.
But we did commit to a compromise. But our compromise where our chair has vowed to skuttle it is no compromise. We need one that cannot be skuttled by the chair. Ms. Adams' compromise is far superior. After getting some advise, I may be seeking co-sponsors for a concurrent ballot with this one to expire after it that would adopt the Adams motion.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:23 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
Email ballots do not require four co-sponsors from the winning side. The sponsors are like seconds. I have not decided if I am going to support this motion, but I am not going to let it get squashed by procedure. But you are incorrect on the point of order to begin with. We are not in the same session. That requirement for the winning side is only in the same session. A rescind does not require someone on the winning side. If you need the RONR pages, I can provide them.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:48 PM justin.odonnell--- via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I object to this motion.
The purpose of the compromise we came to was to accomodate ballot access deadlines and the recognition that a July date made doing so impossible or impractical. Ignoring those concerns is irresponsible and damaging to the Party. Furthermore, we waited too long to make a decision in the first place, this is on us. We all knew well before last weekend that Memorial Day in Texas wasn't going to fly in the current climate, we have noone but ourselves to blame for letting things get to this point with wishful thinking. Its time to stop acting childish, suck it up, and make the best of the situation we're in.
On parliamentary grounds, a motion to reconsider is required to be made by a member of the prevailing side, I would argue that an email ballot requires 4 valid cosponsors, and thus would require 4 members from the prevailing side to cosponsor in order to be a valid motion.
Justin O'Donnell LNC Region 8 Representative
On May 13, 2020 11:04 PM, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I ask for email ballot co-sponsors for the following motion to:
Rescind in its entirety the motion adopted during the May 9, 2020 LNC meeting, which called for a convention to begin on May 22, 2020 with business conducted online. Instead, in accordance with Bylaw Article 10.1, the LNC calls an in-person convention to occur during the dates of July 8-12, 2020 at Rosen Shingle Creek in Orlando, Florida.
I know that I was on the losing side of a 13-4 motion on Saturday, however after tonight's train-wreck and the information I learned during it, I believe that some LNC members from the other side are ready to change course. If I did not believe that to be the case, I would not offer this motion. To preserve options for the LNC, given the 7-day voting period for an email ballot, I want to start this motion now so that it can complete by next Wednesday.
I will have a LOT to say about this soon, as will others, but my first focus is getting the co-sponsors. Then we can debate.
-Alicia
Virus-free. www.avg.com < http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
I second the exact sentiments from Representative O’Donnell, we should work to honor the compromise and I will vote against any move towards any extreme one way or the other. With such limited time it’s logistically unclear whether an all online convention could be sufficiently executed and with ballot access considerations and uncertainty in Orlando it is unwise to leave the P/VP nominations to July. Let’s honor the compromise, the hostility among this body is becoming too much of a distraction to members who could otherwise be organizing, campaigning and doings things other than being frustrated and confused by the uncertainty those who want either extreme are creating. Let’s create certainty for our members by honoring the compromise. Alex Merced Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
On May 14, 2020, at 12:35 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I will co-sponsor. I want to give my reasons. The chair is subverting the will of the LNC, and the LNC needs to take back its rightful control of its own decisions. I do not know if I am going to vote for it. But it needs to be heard.
If a concurrent motion is offered to have an acceptable compromise, I will definitely vote for this. But without such I do not know my answer. But I will co-sponsor as a sign of my objection to the usurping of the authority of the LNC by one person.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
Mr. Phillips we can concurrently offer the Adams compromise that would be a ballot that expires concurrently with this one or one day later.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
EVH, I think your point has merit. If this motion passes, I would re-offer the Erin Adams compromise motion or something very similar unless someone convinces me that would be unwise.
From what I hear from what happened tonight - not the things that will be fixed with practices - but with the inherent flaws that make this NOT a deliberative process and our chair's comments about points of order and parliamentary inquiry, I do not believe we can pull this off and protect rights. If that is the route the LNC decides to take, I will respect it and do my best, but the best at impossible is still impossible.
But we did commit to a compromise. But our compromise where our chair has vowed to skuttle it is no compromise. We need one that cannot be skuttled by the chair. Ms. Adams' compromise is far superior. After getting some advise, I may be seeking co-sponsors for a concurrent ballot with this one to expire after it that would adopt the Adams motion.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:23 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
Email ballots do not require four co-sponsors from the winning side. The sponsors are like seconds. I have not decided if I am going to support this motion, but I am not going to let it get squashed by procedure. But you are incorrect on the point of order to begin with. We are not in the same session. That requirement for the winning side is only in the same session. A rescind does not require someone on the winning side. If you need the RONR pages, I can provide them.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:48 PM justin.odonnell--- via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I object to this motion.
The purpose of the compromise we came to was to accomodate ballot access deadlines and the recognition that a July date made doing so impossible or impractical. Ignoring those concerns is irresponsible and damaging to the Party. Furthermore, we waited too long to make a decision in the first place, this is on us. We all knew well before last weekend that Memorial Day in Texas wasn't going to fly in the current climate, we have noone but ourselves to blame for letting things get to this point with wishful thinking. Its time to stop acting childish, suck it up, and make the best of the situation we're in.
On parliamentary grounds, a motion to reconsider is required to be made by a member of the prevailing side, I would argue that an email ballot requires 4 valid cosponsors, and thus would require 4 members from the prevailing side to cosponsor in order to be a valid motion.
Justin O'Donnell LNC Region 8 Representative
On May 13, 2020 11:04 PM, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I ask for email ballot co-sponsors for the following motion to:
Rescind in its entirety the motion adopted during the May 9, 2020 LNC meeting, which called for a convention to begin on May 22, 2020 with business conducted online. Instead, in accordance with Bylaw Article 10.1, the LNC calls an in-person convention to occur during the dates of July 8-12, 2020 at Rosen Shingle Creek in Orlando, Florida.
I know that I was on the losing side of a 13-4 motion on Saturday, however after tonight's train-wreck and the information I learned during it, I believe that some LNC members from the other side are ready to change course. If I did not believe that to be the case, I would not offer this motion. To preserve options for the LNC, given the 7-day voting period for an email ballot, I want to start this motion now so that it can complete by next Wednesday.
I will have a LOT to say about this soon, as will others, but my first focus is getting the co-sponsors. Then we can debate.
-Alicia
Virus-free. www.avg.com < http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
I disagree with your assessment and that’s okay. Last night’s test caused even more issues and the comments and hostilities over that made me disable Facebook. This online convention scheme is going to create a division far worse than Portland. Ten years from now it will still be going. There is only one thing I know we can do well. Simple ballotting. But whatever happens happens. But I can’t support this gross violation of members rights and trading rights for peace is an abdication. If this suicide route is what the LNC chooses, it has the right to do so. To claim it us for peace is a farce I won’t let go unchallenged. If it happens I will do my best to minimize rights violations that I can by making things smoother. But to sell member rights and call it peace is something you can tell yourself. I can’t. I can only hope states take the bull by the horns and plan to protect their own member rights the best they can. On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 5:44 AM Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair) via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I second the exact sentiments from Representative O’Donnell, we should work to honor the compromise and I will vote against any move towards any extreme one way or the other.
With such limited time it’s logistically unclear whether an all online convention could be sufficiently executed and with ballot access considerations and uncertainty in Orlando it is unwise to leave the P/VP nominations to July.
Let’s honor the compromise, the hostility among this body is becoming too much of a distraction to members who could otherwise be organizing, campaigning and doings things other than being frustrated and confused by the uncertainty those who want either extreme are creating.
Let’s create certainty for our members by honoring the compromise.
Alex Merced Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
On May 14, 2020, at 12:35 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I will co-sponsor. I want to give my reasons. The chair is subverting the will of the LNC, and the LNC needs to take back its rightful control of its own decisions. I do not know if I am going to vote for it. But it needs to be heard.
If a concurrent motion is offered to have an acceptable compromise, I will definitely vote for this. But without such I do not know my answer. But I will co-sponsor as a sign of my objection to the usurping of the authority of the LNC by one person.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
Mr. Phillips we can concurrently offer the Adams compromise that would be a ballot that expires concurrently with this one or one day later.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
EVH, I think your point has merit. If this motion passes, I would re-offer the Erin Adams compromise motion or something very similar unless someone convinces me that would be unwise.
From what I hear from what happened tonight - not the things that will be fixed with practices - but with the inherent flaws that make this NOT a deliberative process and our chair's comments about points of order and parliamentary inquiry, I do not believe we can pull this off and protect rights. If that is the route the LNC decides to take, I will respect it and do my best, but the best at impossible is still impossible.
But we did commit to a compromise. But our compromise where our chair has vowed to skuttle it is no compromise. We need one that cannot be skuttled by the chair. Ms. Adams' compromise is far superior. After getting some advise, I may be seeking co-sponsors for a concurrent ballot with this one to expire after it that would adopt the Adams motion.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:23 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
Email ballots do not require four co-sponsors from the winning side. The sponsors are like seconds. I have not decided if I am going to support this motion, but I am not going to let it get squashed by procedure. But you are incorrect on the point of order to begin with. We are not in the same session. That requirement for the winning side is only in the same session. A rescind does not require someone on the winning side. If you need the RONR pages, I can provide them.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:48 PM justin.odonnell--- via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I object to this motion.
The purpose of the compromise we came to was to accomodate ballot access deadlines and the recognition that a July date made doing so impossible or impractical. Ignoring those concerns is irresponsible and damaging to the Party. Furthermore, we waited too long to make a decision in the first place, this is on us. We all knew well before last weekend that Memorial Day in Texas wasn't going to fly in the current climate, we have noone but ourselves to blame for letting things get to this point with wishful thinking. Its time to stop acting childish, suck it up, and make the best of the situation we're in.
On parliamentary grounds, a motion to reconsider is required to be made by a member of the prevailing side, I would argue that an email ballot requires 4 valid cosponsors, and thus would require 4 members from the prevailing side to cosponsor in order to be a valid motion.
Justin O'Donnell LNC Region 8 Representative
On May 13, 2020 11:04 PM, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I ask for email ballot co-sponsors for the following motion to:
Rescind in its entirety the motion adopted during the May 9, 2020 LNC meeting, which called for a convention to begin on May 22, 2020 with business conducted online. Instead, in accordance with Bylaw Article 10.1, the LNC calls an in-person convention to occur during the dates of July 8-12, 2020 at Rosen Shingle Creek in Orlando, Florida.
I know that I was on the losing side of a 13-4 motion on Saturday, however after tonight's train-wreck and the information I learned during it, I believe that some LNC members from the other side are ready to change course. If I did not believe that to be the case, I would not offer this motion. To preserve options for the LNC, given the 7-day voting period for an email ballot, I want to start this motion now so that it can complete by next Wednesday.
I will have a LOT to say about this soon, as will others, but my first focus is getting the co-sponsors. Then we can debate.
-Alicia
<
http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_camp...
Virus-free. www.avg.com <
http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_camp...
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
--
*In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
Mr. Nanna, I am reading the state chair's list. It is not presently acceptable to them. The shining ray of hope is that they look like they are willing to tell us to take our procedure and shove it and work it out for themselves. Localization is better in this party too. But the fact that the rest of the party is happy with this is a fiction. *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 6:23 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
I disagree with your assessment and that’s okay. Last night’s test caused even more issues and the comments and hostilities over that made me disable Facebook.
This online convention scheme is going to create a division far worse than Portland. Ten years from now it will still be going.
There is only one thing I know we can do well. Simple ballotting.
But whatever happens happens.
But I can’t support this gross violation of members rights and trading rights for peace is an abdication.
If this suicide route is what the LNC chooses, it has the right to do so. To claim it us for peace is a farce I won’t let go unchallenged.
If it happens I will do my best to minimize rights violations that I can by making things smoother.
But to sell member rights and call it peace is something you can tell yourself. I can’t.
I can only hope states take the bull by the horns and plan to protect their own member rights the best they can.
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 5:44 AM Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair) via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I second the exact sentiments from Representative O’Donnell, we should work to honor the compromise and I will vote against any move towards any extreme one way or the other.
With such limited time it’s logistically unclear whether an all online convention could be sufficiently executed and with ballot access considerations and uncertainty in Orlando it is unwise to leave the P/VP nominations to July.
Let’s honor the compromise, the hostility among this body is becoming too much of a distraction to members who could otherwise be organizing, campaigning and doings things other than being frustrated and confused by the uncertainty those who want either extreme are creating.
Let’s create certainty for our members by honoring the compromise.
Alex Merced Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
On May 14, 2020, at 12:35 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I will co-sponsor. I want to give my reasons. The chair is subverting the will of the LNC, and the LNC needs to take back its rightful control of its own decisions. I do not know if I am going to vote for it. But it needs to be heard.
If a concurrent motion is offered to have an acceptable compromise, I will definitely vote for this. But without such I do not know my answer. But I will co-sponsor as a sign of my objection to the usurping of the authority of the LNC by one person.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
Mr. Phillips we can concurrently offer the Adams compromise that would be a ballot that expires concurrently with this one or one day later.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
EVH, I think your point has merit. If this motion passes, I would re-offer the Erin Adams compromise motion or something very similar unless someone convinces me that would be unwise.
From what I hear from what happened tonight - not the things that will be fixed with practices - but with the inherent flaws that make this NOT a deliberative process and our chair's comments about points of order and parliamentary inquiry, I do not believe we can pull this off and protect rights. If that is the route the LNC decides to take, I will respect it and do my best, but the best at impossible is still impossible.
But we did commit to a compromise. But our compromise where our chair has vowed to skuttle it is no compromise. We need one that cannot be skuttled by the chair. Ms. Adams' compromise is far superior. After getting some advise, I may be seeking co-sponsors for a concurrent ballot with this one to expire after it that would adopt the Adams motion.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:23 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
Email ballots do not require four co-sponsors from the winning side. The sponsors are like seconds. I have not decided if I am going to support this motion, but I am not going to let it get squashed by procedure. But you are incorrect on the point of order to begin with. We are not in the same session. That requirement for the winning side is only in the same session. A rescind does not require someone on the winning side. If you need the RONR pages, I can provide them.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:48 PM justin.odonnell--- via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
> I object to this motion. > > The purpose of the compromise we came to was to accomodate ballot > access deadlines and the recognition that a July date made doing so > impossible or impractical. Ignoring those concerns is irresponsible and > damaging to the Party. Furthermore, we waited too long to make a decision > in the first place, this is on us. We all knew well before last weekend > that Memorial Day in Texas wasn't going to fly in the current climate, we > have noone but ourselves to blame for letting things get to this point with > wishful thinking. Its time to stop acting childish, suck it up, and make > the best of the situation we're in. > > On parliamentary grounds, a motion to reconsider is required to be made > by a member of the prevailing side, I would argue that an email ballot > requires 4 valid cosponsors, and thus would require 4 members from the > prevailing side to cosponsor in order to be a valid motion. > > > > Justin O'Donnell > LNC Region 8 Representative > > On May 13, 2020 11:04 PM, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business < > lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: > > I ask for email ballot co-sponsors for the following motion to: > > Rescind in its entirety the motion adopted during the May 9, 2020 LNC > meeting, which called for a convention to begin on May 22, 2020 with > business conducted online. Instead, in accordance with Bylaw Article > 10.1, > the LNC calls an in-person convention to occur during the dates of July > 8-12, 2020 at Rosen Shingle Creek in Orlando, Florida. > > I know that I was on the losing side of a 13-4 motion on Saturday, > however > after tonight's train-wreck and the information I learned during it, I > believe that some LNC members from the other side are ready to change > course. If I did not believe that to be the case, I would not offer > this > motion. To preserve options for the LNC, given the 7-day voting period > for > an email ballot, I want to start this motion now so that it can > complete by > next Wednesday. > > I will have a LOT to say about this soon, as will others, but my first > focus is getting the co-sponsors. Then we can debate. > > -Alicia > > > > < > http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_camp...
> > Virus-free. > www.avg.com > < > http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_camp...
> > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > >
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
That’s a potential betterment but that’s not a deliberative assembly. On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 6:51 AM <joe.bishop-henchman@lp.org> wrote:
I'm also on the state chairs list and the frustration being expressed is the voting in the test system is *too* centralized, with a stated preference that the votes on everything go through delegation chairs to ensure everyone's vote is counted.
On May 14, 2020 8:37 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Mr. Nanna, I am reading the state chair's list. It is not presently acceptable to them. The shining ray of hope is that they look like they are willing to tell us to take our procedure and shove it and work it out for themselves. Localization is better in this party too. But the fact that the rest of the party is happy with this is a fiction.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 6:23 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org>
wrote:
I disagree with your assessment and that’s okay. Last night’s test caused even more issues and the comments and hostilities over that made me disable Facebook.
This online convention scheme is going to create a division far worse than Portland. Ten years from now it will still be going.
There is only one thing I know we can do well. Simple ballotting.
But whatever happens happens.
But I can’t support this gross violation of members rights and trading rights for peace is an abdication.
If this suicide route is what the LNC chooses, it has the right to do so. To claim it us for peace is a farce I won’t let go unchallenged.
If it happens I will do my best to minimize rights violations that I can by making things smoother.
But to sell member rights and call it peace is something you can tell yourself. I can’t.
I can only hope states take the bull by the horns and plan to protect their own member rights the best they can.
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 5:44 AM Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair) via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I second the exact sentiments from Representative O’Donnell, we should work to honor the compromise and I will vote against any move towards any extreme one way or the other.
With such limited time it’s logistically unclear whether an all online convention could be sufficiently executed and with ballot access considerations and uncertainty in Orlando it is unwise to leave the P/VP nominations to July.
Let’s honor the compromise, the hostility among this body is becoming too much of a distraction to members who could otherwise be organizing, campaigning and doings things other than being frustrated and confused by the uncertainty those who want either extreme are creating.
Let’s create certainty for our members by honoring the compromise.
Alex Merced Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
On May 14, 2020, at 12:35 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I will co-sponsor. I want to give my reasons. The chair is subverting the will of the LNC, and the LNC needs to take back its rightful control of its own decisions. I do not know if I am going to vote for it. But it needs to be heard.
If a concurrent motion is offered to have an acceptable compromise, I will definitely vote for this. But without such I do not know my answer. But I will co-sponsor as a sign of my objection to the usurping of the authority of the LNC by one person.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
Mr. Phillips we can concurrently offer the Adams compromise that would be a ballot that expires concurrently with this one or one day later.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
EVH, I think your point has merit. If this motion passes, I would re-offer the Erin Adams compromise motion or something very similar unless someone convinces me that would be unwise.
From what I hear from what happened tonight - not the things that will be fixed with practices - but with the inherent flaws that make this NOT a deliberative process and our chair's comments about points of order and parliamentary inquiry, I do not believe we can pull this off and protect rights. If that is the route the LNC decides to take, I will respect it and do my best, but the best at impossible is still impossible.
But we did commit to a compromise. But our compromise where our chair has vowed to skuttle it is no compromise. We need one that cannot be skuttled by the chair. Ms. Adams' compromise is far superior. After getting some advise, I may be seeking co-sponsors for a concurrent ballot with this one to expire after it that would adopt the Adams motion.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:23 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
> Email ballots do not require four co-sponsors from the winning side. > The sponsors are like seconds. I have not decided if I am going to > support this motion, but I am not going to let it get squashed by > procedure. But you are incorrect on the point of order to begin with. We > are not in the same session. That requirement for the winning side is only > in the same session. A rescind does not require someone on the winning > side. If you need the RONR pages, I can provide them. > > *In Liberty,* > > * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome > (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux > pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * > > > > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:48 PM justin.odonnell--- via Lnc-business < > lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: > >> I object to this motion. >> >> The purpose of the compromise we came to was to accomodate ballot >> access deadlines and the recognition that a July date made doing so >> impossible or impractical. Ignoring those concerns is irresponsible and >> damaging to the Party. Furthermore, we waited too long to make a decision >> in the first place, this is on us. We all knew well before last weekend >> that Memorial Day in Texas wasn't going to fly in the current climate, we >> have noone but ourselves to blame for letting things get to this point with >> wishful thinking. Its time to stop acting childish, suck it up, and make >> the best of the situation we're in. >> >> On parliamentary grounds, a motion to reconsider is required to be made >> by a member of the prevailing side, I would argue that an email ballot >> requires 4 valid cosponsors, and thus would require 4 members from the >> prevailing side to cosponsor in order to be a valid motion. >> >> >> >> Justin O'Donnell >> LNC Region 8 Representative >> >> On May 13, 2020 11:04 PM, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business < >> lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >> >> I ask for email ballot co-sponsors for the following motion to: >> >> Rescind in its entirety the motion adopted during the May 9, 2020 LNC >> meeting, which called for a convention to begin on May 22, 2020 with >> business conducted online. Instead, in accordance with Bylaw Article >> 10.1, >> the LNC calls an in-person convention to occur during the dates of July >> 8-12, 2020 at Rosen Shingle Creek in Orlando, Florida. >> >> I know that I was on the losing side of a 13-4 motion on Saturday, >> however >> after tonight's train-wreck and the information I learned during it, I >> believe that some LNC members from the other side are ready to change >> course. If I did not believe that to be the case, I would not offer >> this >> motion. To preserve options for the LNC, given the 7-day voting period >> for >> an email ballot, I want to start this motion now so that it can >> complete by >> next Wednesday. >> >> I will have a LOT to say about this soon, as will others, but my first >> focus is getting the co-sponsors. Then we can debate. >> >> -Alicia >> >> >> >> < >>
http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_camp...
>> >> Virus-free. >> www.avg.com >> < >>
http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_camp...
>> >> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >> >> >>
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
Feedback from Region 3 is come from a small number of frustrated people who were either unable to log-in to the test, didn't get the emails, or other procedural problems. I'm not seeing calls for scuttling the compromise. (one of my state chairs did suggest having 51 people on Zoom, and it be the state chairs. Each representing their state delegates. (Which might be on separate group meetings, I'm not sure, I'll need to ask if he has specifics on that.) --- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY) On 2020-05-14 08:51, joe.bishop-henchman--- via Lnc-business wrote:
I'm also on the state chairs list and the frustration being expressed is the voting in the test system is *too* centralized, with a stated preference that the votes on everything go through delegation chairs to ensure everyone's vote is counted.
On May 14, 2020 8:37 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Mr. Nanna, I am reading the state chair's list. It is not presently acceptable to them. The shining ray of hope is that they look like they are willing to tell us to take our procedure and shove it and work it out for themselves. Localization is better in this party too. But the fact that the rest of the party is happy with this is a fiction.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 6:23 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
I disagree with your assessment and that's okay. Last night's test caused even more issues and the comments and hostilities over that made me disable Facebook.
This online convention scheme is going to create a division far worse than Portland. Ten years from now it will still be going.
There is only one thing I know we can do well. Simple ballotting.
But whatever happens happens.
But I can't support this gross violation of members rights and trading rights for peace is an abdication.
If this suicide route is what the LNC chooses, it has the right to do so. To claim it us for peace is a farce I won't let go unchallenged.
If it happens I will do my best to minimize rights violations that I can by making things smoother.
But to sell member rights and call it peace is something you can tell yourself. I can't.
I can only hope states take the bull by the horns and plan to protect their own member rights the best they can.
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 5:44 AM Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair) via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I second the exact sentiments from Representative O'Donnell, we should work to honor the compromise and I will vote against any move towards any extreme one way or the other.
With such limited time it's logistically unclear whether an all online convention could be sufficiently executed and with ballot access considerations and uncertainty in Orlando it is unwise to leave the P/VP nominations to July.
Let's honor the compromise, the hostility among this body is becoming too much of a distraction to members who could otherwise be organizing, campaigning and doings things other than being frustrated and confused by the uncertainty those who want either extreme are creating.
Let's create certainty for our members by honoring the compromise.
Alex Merced Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
On May 14, 2020, at 12:35 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I will co-sponsor. I want to give my reasons. The chair is subverting the will of the LNC, and the LNC needs to take back its rightful control of its own decisions. I do not know if I am going to vote for it. But it needs to be heard.
If a concurrent motion is offered to have an acceptable compromise, I will definitely vote for this. But without such I do not know my answer. But I will co-sponsor as a sign of my objection to the usurping of the authority of the LNC by one person.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
Mr. Phillips we can concurrently offer the Adams compromise that would be a ballot that expires concurrently with this one or one day later.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
> EVH, I think your point has merit. If this motion passes, I > would re-offer the Erin Adams compromise motion or something very similar > unless someone convinces me that would be unwise. > > From what I hear from what happened tonight - not the things that will be > fixed with practices - but with the inherent flaws that make this NOT a > deliberative process and our chair's comments about points of order and > parliamentary inquiry, I do not believe we can pull this off and protect > rights. If that is the route the LNC decides to take, I will respect it > and do my best, but the best at impossible is still impossible. > > But we did commit to a compromise. But our compromise where our chair > has vowed to skuttle it is no compromise. We need one that cannot be > skuttled by the chair. Ms. Adams' compromise is far superior. After > getting some advise, I may be seeking co-sponsors for a concurrent ballot > with this one to expire after it that would adopt the Adams motion. > > *In Liberty,* > > * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome > (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux > pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * > > > > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:23 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < > caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote: > >> Email ballots do not require four co-sponsors from the winning side. >> The sponsors are like seconds. I have not decided if I am going to >> support this motion, but I am not going to let it get squashed by >> procedure. But you are incorrect on the point of order to begin with. We >> are not in the same session. That requirement for the winning side is only >> in the same session. A rescind does not require someone on the winning >> side. If you need the RONR pages, I can provide them. >> >> *In Liberty,* >> >> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome >> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux >> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * >> >> >> >> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:48 PM justin.odonnell--- via Lnc-business < >> lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >> >>> I object to this motion. >>> >>> The purpose of the compromise we came to was to accomodate ballot >>> access deadlines and the recognition that a July date made doing so >>> impossible or impractical. Ignoring those concerns is irresponsible and >>> damaging to the Party. Furthermore, we waited too long to make a decision >>> in the first place, this is on us. We all knew well before last weekend >>> that Memorial Day in Texas wasn't going to fly in the current climate, we >>> have noone but ourselves to blame for letting things get to this point with >>> wishful thinking. Its time to stop acting childish, suck it up, and make >>> the best of the situation we're in. >>> >>> On parliamentary grounds, a motion to reconsider is required to be made >>> by a member of the prevailing side, I would argue that an email ballot >>> requires 4 valid cosponsors, and thus would require 4 members from the >>> prevailing side to cosponsor in order to be a valid motion. >>> >>> >>> >>> Justin O'Donnell >>> LNC Region 8 Representative >>> >>> On May 13, 2020 11:04 PM, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business < >>> lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >>> >>> I ask for email ballot co-sponsors for the following motion to: >>> >>> Rescind in its entirety the motion adopted during the May 9, 2020 LNC >>> meeting, which called for a convention to begin on May 22, 2020 with >>> business conducted online. Instead, in accordance with Bylaw Article >>> 10.1, >>> the LNC calls an in-person convention to occur during the dates of July >>> 8-12, 2020 at Rosen Shingle Creek in Orlando, Florida. >>> >>> I know that I was on the losing side of a 13-4 motion on Saturday, >>> however >>> after tonight's train-wreck and the information I learned during it, I >>> believe that some LNC members from the other side are ready to change >>> course. If I did not believe that to be the case, I would not offer >>> this >>> motion. To preserve options for the LNC, given the 7-day voting period >>> for >>> an email ballot, I want to start this motion now so that it can >>> complete by >>> next Wednesday. >>> >>> I will have a LOT to say about this soon, as will others, but my first >>> focus is getting the co-sponsors. Then we can debate. >>> >>> -Alicia >>> >>> >>> >>> < >>> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_camp...
>>> >>> Virus-free. >>> www.avg.com >>> < >>> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_camp...
>>> >>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>> >>> >>>
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
I am not either EVH. I’m seeing calls to have a simple ballot on the ticket and that alone On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:30 AM Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Feedback from Region 3 is come from a small number of frustrated people who were either unable to log-in to the test, didn't get the emails, or other procedural problems.
I'm not seeing calls for scuttling the compromise. (one of my state chairs did suggest having 51 people on Zoom, and it be the state chairs. Each representing their state delegates. (Which might be on separate group meetings, I'm not sure, I'll need to ask if he has specifics on that.)
--- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY)
On 2020-05-14 08:51, joe.bishop-henchman--- via Lnc-business wrote:
I'm also on the state chairs list and the frustration being expressed is the voting in the test system is *too* centralized, with a stated preference that the votes on everything go through delegation chairs to ensure everyone's vote is counted.
On May 14, 2020 8:37 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Mr. Nanna, I am reading the state chair's list. It is not presently acceptable to them. The shining ray of hope is that they look like they are willing to tell us to take our procedure and shove it and work it out for themselves. Localization is better in this party too. But the fact that the rest of the party is happy with this is a fiction.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 6:23 AM Caryn Ann Harlos < caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
I disagree with your assessment and that's okay. Last night's test caused even more issues and the comments and hostilities over that made me disable Facebook.
This online convention scheme is going to create a division far worse than Portland. Ten years from now it will still be going.
There is only one thing I know we can do well. Simple ballotting.
But whatever happens happens.
But I can't support this gross violation of members rights and trading rights for peace is an abdication.
If this suicide route is what the LNC chooses, it has the right to do so. To claim it us for peace is a farce I won't let go unchallenged.
If it happens I will do my best to minimize rights violations that I can by making things smoother.
But to sell member rights and call it peace is something you can tell yourself. I can't.
I can only hope states take the bull by the horns and plan to protect their own member rights the best they can.
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 5:44 AM Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair) via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I second the exact sentiments from Representative O'Donnell, we should work to honor the compromise and I will vote against any move towards any extreme one way or the other.
With such limited time it's logistically unclear whether an all online convention could be sufficiently executed and with ballot access considerations and uncertainty in Orlando it is unwise to leave the P/VP nominations to July.
Let's honor the compromise, the hostility among this body is becoming too much of a distraction to members who could otherwise be organizing, campaigning and doings things other than being frustrated and confused by the uncertainty those who want either extreme are creating.
Let's create certainty for our members by honoring the compromise.
Alex Merced Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
On May 14, 2020, at 12:35 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I will co-sponsor. I want to give my reasons. The chair is subverting the will of the LNC, and the LNC needs to take back its rightful control of its own decisions. I do not know if I am going to vote for it. But it needs to be heard.
If a concurrent motion is offered to have an acceptable compromise, I will definitely vote for this. But without such I do not know my answer. But I will co-sponsor as a sign of my objection to the usurping of the authority of the LNC by one person.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> > wrote: > > Mr. Phillips we can concurrently offer the Adams compromise that would be > a ballot that expires concurrently with this one or one day later. > > *In Liberty,* > > * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome > (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux > pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * > > > > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> > wrote: > >> EVH, I think your point has merit. If this motion passes, I >> would re-offer the Erin Adams compromise motion or something very similar >> unless someone convinces me that would be unwise. >> >> From what I hear from what happened tonight - not the things that will be >> fixed with practices - but with the inherent flaws that make this NOT a >> deliberative process and our chair's comments about points of order and >> parliamentary inquiry, I do not believe we can pull this off and protect >> rights. If that is the route the LNC decides to take, I will respect it >> and do my best, but the best at impossible is still impossible. >> >> But we did commit to a compromise. But our compromise where our chair >> has vowed to skuttle it is no compromise. We need one that cannot be >> skuttled by the chair. Ms. Adams' compromise is far superior. After >> getting some advise, I may be seeking co-sponsors for a concurrent ballot >> with this one to expire after it that would adopt the Adams motion. >> >> *In Liberty,* >> >> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome >> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux >> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * >> >> >> >> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:23 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < >> caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote: >> >>> Email ballots do not require four co-sponsors from the winning side. >>> The sponsors are like seconds. I have not decided if I am going to >>> support this motion, but I am not going to let it get squashed by >>> procedure. But you are incorrect on the point of order to begin with. We >>> are not in the same session. That requirement for the winning side is only >>> in the same session. A rescind does not require someone on the winning >>> side. If you need the RONR pages, I can provide them. >>> >>> *In Liberty,* >>> >>> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome >>> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal >>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone >>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux >>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:48 PM justin.odonnell--- via Lnc-business < >>> lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I object to this motion. >>>> >>>> The purpose of the compromise we came to was to accomodate ballot >>>> access deadlines and the recognition that a July date made doing so >>>> impossible or impractical. Ignoring those concerns is irresponsible and >>>> damaging to the Party. Furthermore, we waited too long to make a decision >>>> in the first place, this is on us. We all knew well before last weekend >>>> that Memorial Day in Texas wasn't going to fly in the current climate, we >>>> have noone but ourselves to blame for letting things get to this point with >>>> wishful thinking. Its time to stop acting childish, suck it up, and make >>>> the best of the situation we're in. >>>> >>>> On parliamentary grounds, a motion to reconsider is required to be made >>>> by a member of the prevailing side, I would argue that an email ballot >>>> requires 4 valid cosponsors, and thus would require 4 members from the >>>> prevailing side to cosponsor in order to be a valid motion. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Justin O'Donnell >>>> LNC Region 8 Representative >>>> >>>> On May 13, 2020 11:04 PM, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business < >>>> lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> I ask for email ballot co-sponsors for the following motion to: >>>> >>>> Rescind in its entirety the motion adopted during the May 9, 2020 LNC >>>> meeting, which called for a convention to begin on May 22, 2020 with >>>> business conducted online. Instead, in accordance with Bylaw Article >>>> 10.1, >>>> the LNC calls an in-person convention to occur during the dates of July >>>> 8-12, 2020 at Rosen Shingle Creek in Orlando, Florida. >>>> >>>> I know that I was on the losing side of a 13-4 motion on Saturday, >>>> however >>>> after tonight's train-wreck and the information I learned during it, I >>>> believe that some LNC members from the other side are ready to change >>>> course. If I did not believe that to be the case, I would not offer >>>> this >>>> motion. To preserve options for the LNC, given the 7-day voting period >>>> for >>>> an email ballot, I want to start this motion now so that it can >>>> complete by >>>> next Wednesday. >>>> >>>> I will have a LOT to say about this soon, as will others, but my first >>>> focus is getting the co-sponsors. Then we can debate. >>>> >>>> -Alicia >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> < >>>>
http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_camp...
>>>> >>>> Virus-free. >>>> www.avg.com >>>> < >>>>
http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_camp...
>>>> >>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>>> >>>> >>>>
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
-- *In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
Colorado just weighed in. Sick of the circus - give them ballots and trust the state chairs to know their delegations. This one size fits all us central planning at its most hideous in this circumstances. On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:42 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
I am not either EVH. I’m seeing calls to have a simple ballot on the ticket and that alone
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:30 AM Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Feedback from Region 3 is come from a small number of frustrated people who were either unable to log-in to the test, didn't get the emails, or other procedural problems.
I'm not seeing calls for scuttling the compromise. (one of my state chairs did suggest having 51 people on Zoom, and it be the state chairs. Each representing their state delegates. (Which might be on separate group meetings, I'm not sure, I'll need to ask if he has specifics on that.)
--- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY)
On 2020-05-14 08:51, joe.bishop-henchman--- via Lnc-business wrote:
I'm also on the state chairs list and the frustration being expressed is the voting in the test system is *too* centralized, with a stated preference that the votes on everything go through delegation chairs to ensure everyone's vote is counted.
On May 14, 2020 8:37 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Mr. Nanna, I am reading the state chair's list. It is not presently acceptable to them. The shining ray of hope is that they look like they are willing to tell us to take our procedure and shove it and work it out for themselves. Localization is better in this party too. But the fact that the rest of the party is happy with this is a fiction.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 6:23 AM Caryn Ann Harlos < caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
I disagree with your assessment and that's okay. Last night's test caused even more issues and the comments and hostilities over that made me disable Facebook.
This online convention scheme is going to create a division far worse than Portland. Ten years from now it will still be going.
There is only one thing I know we can do well. Simple ballotting.
But whatever happens happens.
But I can't support this gross violation of members rights and trading rights for peace is an abdication.
If this suicide route is what the LNC chooses, it has the right to do so. To claim it us for peace is a farce I won't let go unchallenged.
If it happens I will do my best to minimize rights violations that I can by making things smoother.
But to sell member rights and call it peace is something you can tell yourself. I can't.
I can only hope states take the bull by the horns and plan to protect their own member rights the best they can.
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 5:44 AM Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair) via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
I second the exact sentiments from Representative O'Donnell, we should work to honor the compromise and I will vote against any move towards any extreme one way or the other.
With such limited time it's logistically unclear whether an all online convention could be sufficiently executed and with ballot access considerations and uncertainty in Orlando it is unwise to leave the P/VP nominations to July.
Let's honor the compromise, the hostility among this body is becoming too much of a distraction to members who could otherwise be organizing, campaigning and doings things other than being frustrated and confused by the uncertainty those who want either extreme are creating.
Let's create certainty for our members by honoring the compromise.
Alex Merced Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
> On May 14, 2020, at 12:35 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: > > I will co-sponsor. I want to give my reasons. The chair is subverting the > will of the LNC, and the LNC needs to take back its rightful control of its > own decisions. I do not know if I am going to vote for it. But it needs > to be heard. > > If a concurrent motion is offered to have an acceptable compromise, I will > definitely vote for this. But without such I do not know my answer. But I > will co-sponsor as a sign of my objection to the usurping of the authority > of the LNC by one person. > > *In Liberty,* > > * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome > (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux > pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * > > > >> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> >> wrote: >> >> Mr. Phillips we can concurrently offer the Adams compromise that would be >> a ballot that expires concurrently with this one or one day later. >> >> *In Liberty,* >> >> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome >> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux >> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * >> >> >> >> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> >> wrote: >> >>> EVH, I think your point has merit. If this motion passes, I >>> would re-offer the Erin Adams compromise motion or something very similar >>> unless someone convinces me that would be unwise. >>> >>> From what I hear from what happened tonight - not the things that will be >>> fixed with practices - but with the inherent flaws that make this NOT a >>> deliberative process and our chair's comments about points of order and >>> parliamentary inquiry, I do not believe we can pull this off and protect >>> rights. If that is the route the LNC decides to take, I will respect it >>> and do my best, but the best at impossible is still impossible. >>> >>> But we did commit to a compromise. But our compromise where our chair >>> has vowed to skuttle it is no compromise. We need one that cannot be >>> skuttled by the chair. Ms. Adams' compromise is far superior. After >>> getting some advise, I may be seeking co-sponsors for a concurrent ballot >>> with this one to expire after it that would adopt the Adams motion. >>> >>> *In Liberty,* >>> >>> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome >>> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal >>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone >>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux >>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:23 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < >>> caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Email ballots do not require four co-sponsors from the winning side. >>>> The sponsors are like seconds. I have not decided if I am going to >>>> support this motion, but I am not going to let it get squashed by >>>> procedure. But you are incorrect on the point of order to begin with. We >>>> are not in the same session. That requirement for the winning side is only >>>> in the same session. A rescind does not require someone on the winning >>>> side. If you need the RONR pages, I can provide them. >>>> >>>> *In Liberty,* >>>> >>>> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome >>>> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal >>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone >>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux >>>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:48 PM justin.odonnell--- via Lnc-business < >>>> lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I object to this motion. >>>>> >>>>> The purpose of the compromise we came to was to accomodate ballot >>>>> access deadlines and the recognition that a July date made doing so >>>>> impossible or impractical. Ignoring those concerns is irresponsible and >>>>> damaging to the Party. Furthermore, we waited too long to make a decision >>>>> in the first place, this is on us. We all knew well before last weekend >>>>> that Memorial Day in Texas wasn't going to fly in the current climate, we >>>>> have noone but ourselves to blame for letting things get to this point with >>>>> wishful thinking. Its time to stop acting childish, suck it up, and make >>>>> the best of the situation we're in. >>>>> >>>>> On parliamentary grounds, a motion to reconsider is required to be made >>>>> by a member of the prevailing side, I would argue that an email ballot >>>>> requires 4 valid cosponsors, and thus would require 4 members from the >>>>> prevailing side to cosponsor in order to be a valid motion. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Justin O'Donnell >>>>> LNC Region 8 Representative >>>>> >>>>> On May 13, 2020 11:04 PM, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business < >>>>> lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I ask for email ballot co-sponsors for the following motion to: >>>>> >>>>> Rescind in its entirety the motion adopted during the May 9, 2020 LNC >>>>> meeting, which called for a convention to begin on May 22, 2020 with >>>>> business conducted online. Instead, in accordance with Bylaw Article >>>>> 10.1, >>>>> the LNC calls an in-person convention to occur during the dates of July >>>>> 8-12, 2020 at Rosen Shingle Creek in Orlando, Florida. >>>>> >>>>> I know that I was on the losing side of a 13-4 motion on Saturday, >>>>> however >>>>> after tonight's train-wreck and the information I learned during it, I >>>>> believe that some LNC members from the other side are ready to change >>>>> course. If I did not believe that to be the case, I would not offer >>>>> this >>>>> motion. To preserve options for the LNC, given the 7-day voting period >>>>> for >>>>> an email ballot, I want to start this motion now so that it can >>>>> complete by >>>>> next Wednesday. >>>>> >>>>> I will have a LOT to say about this soon, as will others, but my first >>>>> focus is getting the co-sponsors. Then we can debate. >>>>> >>>>> -Alicia >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> < >>>>>
http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_camp...
> >>>>> >>>>> Virus-free. >>>>> www.avg.com >>>>> < >>>>>
http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_camp...
> >>>>> >>>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
The state chairs are suggesting this. Go ask them. On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 8:09 AM justin.odonnell--- via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
You are opposing central planning by attempting to remove the delegates ability to decide the course themselves and centrally plan everything to your liking from a seat on the LNC.
Justin O'Donnell LNC Region 8 Representative
On May 14, 2020 10:03 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Colorado just weighed in. Sick of the circus - give them ballots and trust the state chairs to know their delegations.
This one size fits all us central planning at its most hideous in this circumstances.
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:42 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org>
wrote:
I am not either EVH. I’m seeing calls to have a simple ballot on the ticket and that alone
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:30 AM Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Feedback from Region 3 is come from a small number of frustrated people who were either unable to log-in to the test, didn't get the emails, or other procedural problems.
I'm not seeing calls for scuttling the compromise. (one of my state chairs did suggest having 51 people on Zoom, and it be the state chairs. Each representing their state delegates. (Which might be on separate group meetings, I'm not sure, I'll need to ask if he has specifics on that.)
--- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY)
On 2020-05-14 08:51, joe.bishop-henchman--- via Lnc-business wrote:
I'm also on the state chairs list and the frustration being expressed is the voting in the test system is *too* centralized, with a stated preference that the votes on everything go through delegation chairs to ensure everyone's vote is counted.
On May 14, 2020 8:37 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
Mr. Nanna, I am reading the state chair's list. It is not presently acceptable to them. The shining ray of hope is that they look like they are willing to tell us to take our procedure and shove it and work it out for themselves. Localization is better in this party too. But the fact that the rest of the party is happy with this is a fiction.
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 6:23 AM Caryn Ann Harlos < caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
I disagree with your assessment and that's okay. Last night's test caused even more issues and the comments and hostilities over that made me disable Facebook.
This online convention scheme is going to create a division far worse than Portland. Ten years from now it will still be going.
There is only one thing I know we can do well. Simple ballotting.
But whatever happens happens.
But I can't support this gross violation of members rights and trading rights for peace is an abdication.
If this suicide route is what the LNC chooses, it has the right to do so. To claim it us for peace is a farce I won't let go unchallenged.
If it happens I will do my best to minimize rights violations that I can by making things smoother.
But to sell member rights and call it peace is something you can tell yourself. I can't.
I can only hope states take the bull by the horns and plan to protect their own member rights the best they can.
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 5:44 AM Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair) via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
> I second the exact sentiments from Representative O'Donnell, we should > work to honor the compromise and I will vote against any move towards any > extreme one way or the other. > > With such limited time it's logistically unclear whether an all online > convention could be sufficiently executed and with ballot access > considerations and uncertainty in Orlando it is unwise to leave the P/VP > nominations to July. > > Let's honor the compromise, the hostility among this body is becoming too > much of a distraction to members who could otherwise be organizing, > campaigning and doings things other than being frustrated and confused by > the uncertainty those who want either extreme are creating. > > Let's create certainty for our members by honoring the compromise. > > Alex Merced > Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP > >> On May 14, 2020, at 12:35 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business < > lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >> >> I will co-sponsor. I want to give my reasons. The chair is > subverting the >> will of the LNC, and the LNC needs to take back its rightful control of > its >> own decisions. I do not know if I am going to vote for it. But it > needs >> to be heard. >> >> If a concurrent motion is offered to have an acceptable compromise, I > will >> definitely vote for this. But without such I do not know my answer. > But I >> will co-sponsor as a sign of my objection to the usurping of the > authority >> of the LNC by one person. >> >> *In Liberty,* >> >> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome >> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social > faux >> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * >> >> >> >>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < > caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Mr. Phillips we can concurrently offer the Adams compromise that would > be >>> a ballot that expires concurrently with this one or one day later. >>> >>> *In Liberty,* >>> >>> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome >>> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal >>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone >>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social > faux >>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < > caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> EVH, I think your point has merit. If this motion passes, I >>>> would re-offer the Erin Adams compromise motion or something very > similar >>>> unless someone convinces me that would be unwise. >>>> >>>> From what I hear from what happened tonight - not the things that > will be >>>> fixed with practices - but with the inherent flaws that make this NOT > a >>>> deliberative process and our chair's comments about points of order > and >>>> parliamentary inquiry, I do not believe we can pull this off and > protect >>>> rights. If that is the route the LNC decides to take, I will respect > it >>>> and do my best, but the best at impossible is still impossible. >>>> >>>> But we did commit to a compromise. But our compromise where our chair >>>> has vowed to skuttle it is no compromise. We need one that cannot be >>>> skuttled by the chair. Ms. Adams' compromise is far superior. After >>>> getting some advise, I may be seeking co-sponsors for a concurrent > ballot >>>> with this one to expire after it that would adopt the Adams motion. >>>> >>>> *In Liberty,* >>>> >>>> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome >>>> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal >>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If > anyone >>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social > faux >>>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:23 PM Caryn Ann Harlos < >>>> caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Email ballots do not require four co-sponsors from the winning side. >>>>> The sponsors are like seconds. I have not decided if I am going to >>>>> support this motion, but I am not going to let it get squashed by >>>>> procedure. But you are incorrect on the point of order to begin > with. We >>>>> are not in the same session. That requirement for the winning side > is only >>>>> in the same session. A rescind does not require someone on the > winning >>>>> side. If you need the RONR pages, I can provide them. >>>>> >>>>> *In Liberty,* >>>>> >>>>> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's > Syndrome >>>>> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal >>>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If > anyone >>>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social > faux >>>>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. * >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:48 PM justin.odonnell--- via Lnc-business < >>>>> lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I object to this motion. >>>>>> >>>>>> The purpose of the compromise we came to was to accomodate ballot >>>>>> access deadlines and the recognition that a July date made doing so >>>>>> impossible or impractical. Ignoring those concerns is irresponsible > and >>>>>> damaging to the Party. Furthermore, we waited too long to make a > decision >>>>>> in the first place, this is on us. We all knew well before last > weekend >>>>>> that Memorial Day in Texas wasn't going to fly in the current > climate, we >>>>>> have noone but ourselves to blame for letting things get to this > point with >>>>>> wishful thinking. Its time to stop acting childish, suck it up, and > make >>>>>> the best of the situation we're in. >>>>>> >>>>>> On parliamentary grounds, a motion to reconsider is required to be > made >>>>>> by a member of the prevailing side, I would argue that an email > ballot >>>>>> requires 4 valid cosponsors, and thus would require 4 members from > the >>>>>> prevailing side to cosponsor in order to be a valid motion. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Justin O'Donnell >>>>>> LNC Region 8 Representative >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 13, 2020 11:04 PM, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business < >>>>>> lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I ask for email ballot co-sponsors for the following motion to: >>>>>> >>>>>> Rescind in its entirety the motion adopted during the May 9, 2020 > LNC >>>>>> meeting, which called for a convention to begin on May 22, 2020 with >>>>>> business conducted online. Instead, in accordance with Bylaw > Article >>>>>> 10.1, >>>>>> the LNC calls an in-person convention to occur during the dates of > July >>>>>> 8-12, 2020 at Rosen Shingle Creek in Orlando, Florida. >>>>>> >>>>>> I know that I was on the losing side of a 13-4 motion on Saturday, >>>>>> however >>>>>> after tonight's train-wreck and the information I learned during > it, I >>>>>> believe that some LNC members from the other side are ready to > change >>>>>> course. If I did not believe that to be the case, I would not offer >>>>>> this >>>>>> motion. To preserve options for the LNC, given the 7-day voting > period >>>>>> for >>>>>> an email ballot, I want to start this motion now so that it can >>>>>> complete by >>>>>> next Wednesday. >>>>>> >>>>>> I will have a LOT to say about this soon, as will others, but my > first >>>>>> focus is getting the co-sponsors. Then we can debate. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Alicia >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> < >>>>>> >
http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_camp...
>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Virus-free. >>>>>> www.avg.com >>>>>> < >>>>>> >
http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_camp...
>> >>>>>> >>>>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> > > --
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,*
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
--
*In Liberty,* * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
Many people in my region, including the chairs in Region 3 have emphasized that the 'compromise' is something we stick with. I think the delegates will not be happy to find out that the decision the LNC just made on May 9th, could be scuttled after only four days. This is wrong. --- Elizabeth Van Horn LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY) On 2020-05-13 23:04, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business wrote:
I ask for email ballot co-sponsors for the following motion to:
Rescind in its entirety the motion adopted during the May 9, 2020 LNC meeting, which called for a convention to begin on May 22, 2020 with business conducted online. Instead, in accordance with Bylaw Article 10.1, the LNC calls an in-person convention to occur during the dates of July 8-12, 2020 at Rosen Shingle Creek in Orlando, Florida.
I know that I was on the losing side of a 13-4 motion on Saturday, however after tonight's train-wreck and the information I learned during it, I believe that some LNC members from the other side are ready to change course. If I did not believe that to be the case, I would not offer this motion. To preserve options for the LNC, given the 7-day voting period for an email ballot, I want to start this motion now so that it can complete by next Wednesday.
I will have a LOT to say about this soon, as will others, but my first focus is getting the co-sponsors. Then we can debate.
-Alicia
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
participants (11)
-
Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair) -
Alicia Mattson -
Caryn Ann Harlos -
dustin.nanna＠lp.org -
Elizabeth Van Horn -
Jeff Hewitt -
joe.bishop-henchman＠lp.org -
john.phillips＠lp.org -
joshua.smith＠lp.org -
justin.odonnell＠lp.org -
Whitney Bilyeu