Many members are asking about the JC results. Can someone please post them here for distribution? Thanks, Sam Goldstein Libertarian National Committee Member at Large 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101 Indianapolis IN 46260 317-850-0726 Phone 317-582-1773 Fax
I have had 2 of the 4 chairs in Region 3 ask about seeing state totals and possibly even having the state ballots scanned in for Treasurer, At-Large, and Judicial Committee, since these were skipped over due to time constraints and thus there was no ability to contest any results. I don't know if it's proper for me to speak on this list as an Alternate. I reached out to Brett but he was busy today. And since the issue came up, I thought I'd mention it, since it's topical. --- Ken Moellman Libertarian Party of Kentucky ken.moellman@lpky.org http://www.lpky.org/ (859) OK-BE-LPK (859) 652-3575 On 2016-06-01 21:24, Sam Goldstein wrote:
Many members are asking about the JC results. Can someone please post them here for distribution?
Thanks,
Sam Goldstein Libertarian National Committee Member at Large 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101 Indianapolis IN 46260 317-850-0726 Phone 317-582-1773 Fax
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org [1]
Links: ------ [1] http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
I am getting the same inquiries like crazy. Can we please have at a minimum the JC election results, but members want the totals as well. In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 8:47 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
I have had 2 of the 4 chairs in Region 3 ask about seeing state totals and possibly even having the state ballots scanned in for Treasurer, At-Large, and Judicial Committee, since these were skipped over due to time constraints and thus there was no ability to contest any results.
I don't know if it's proper for me to speak on this list as an Alternate. I reached out to Brett but he was busy today. And since the issue came up, I thought I'd mention it, since it's topical. ---
Ken Moellman Libertarian Party of Kentucky ken.moellman@lpky.org http://www.lpky.org/ (859) OK-BE-LPK (859) 652-3575
On 2016-06-01 21:24, Sam Goldstein wrote:
Many members are asking about the JC results. Can someone please post them here for distribution?
Thanks,
Sam Goldstein Libertarian National Committee Member at Large 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101 Indianapolis IN 46260 317-850-0726 Phone 317-582-1773 Fax
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann
Ken, Our standard operating procedure is that alternates freely comment on our email list. I know your requests are well intended, but please keep in mind that my post-convention to-do list is extremely long. It includes, but is not limited to: - producing minutes for 2 LNC meetings - producing minutes for an EC meeting - generating nomination certificates for SOS offices to place our presidential ticket on the ballot in states where we already have ballot access - updating the bylaws - updating the platform - generating various data sets and articles for LPNews, media inquiries, etc. - producing minutes for the convention which conducted quite a bit of business while I was tabulating election results, so I have my records, an assistant's records, and a pile of slips of paper that were submitted that contain some of those motions, and a bunch of other ideas for motions that were never made - my email inbox is full of lots of requests that I won't get to immediately When the convention minutes are produced, it will contain state-by-state breakdowns of each of the elections. That info will be shared, but it just cannot be at the top of my priority list at the moment. -Alicia On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
I have had 2 of the 4 chairs in Region 3 ask about seeing state totals and possibly even having the state ballots scanned in for Treasurer, At-Large, and Judicial Committee, since these were skipped over due to time constraints and thus there was no ability to contest any results.
I don't know if it's proper for me to speak on this list as an Alternate. I reached out to Brett but he was busy today. And since the issue came up, I thought I'd mention it, since it's topical. ---
Ken Moellman Libertarian Party of Kentucky ken.moellman@lpky.org http://www.lpky.org/ (859) OK-BE-LPK (859) 652-3575
On 2016-06-01 21:24, Sam Goldstein wrote:
Many members are asking about the JC results. Can someone please post them here for distribution?
Thanks,
Sam Goldstein Libertarian National Committee Member at Large 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101 Indianapolis IN 46260 317-850-0726 Phone 317-582-1773 Fax
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
Alicia, I understand that you have a ridiculous amount of work to do. As long as it's on the agenda to get published, I think people will be fine. I'd like to explore a secure mechanism to increase voting efficiency - both the voting and the tallying. I'd also like to see the death of Approval Voting. Blech. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. Libertarian National Committee Region 3 Alternate Representative Ballot Access Committee On 2016-06-02 01:45, Alicia Mattson wrote:
Ken,
Our standard operating procedure is that alternates freely comment on our email list.
I know your requests are well intended, but please keep in mind that my post-convention to-do list is extremely long. It includes, but is not limited to:
* producing minutes for 2 LNC meetings * producing minutes for an EC meeting * generating nomination certificates for SOS offices to place our presidential ticket on the ballot in states where we already have ballot access * updating the bylaws * updating the platform * generating various data sets and articles for LPNews, media inquiries, etc. * producing minutes for the convention which conducted quite a bit of business while I was tabulating election results, so I have my records, an assistant's records, and a pile of slips of paper that were submitted that contain some of those motions, and a bunch of other ideas for motions that were never made * my email inbox is full of lots of requests that I won't get to immediately
When the convention minutes are produced, it will contain state-by-state breakdowns of each of the elections. That info will be shared, but it just cannot be at the top of my priority list at the moment.
-Alicia
On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
I have had 2 of the 4 chairs in Region 3 ask about seeing state totals and possibly even having the state ballots scanned in for Treasurer, At-Large, and Judicial Committee, since these were skipped over due to time constraints and thus there was no ability to contest any results.
I don't know if it's proper for me to speak on this list as an Alternate. I reached out to Brett but he was busy today. And since the issue came up, I thought I'd mention it, since it's topical. --- Ken Moellman Libertarian Party of Kentucky ken.moellman@lpky.org http://www.lpky.org/ [1] (859) OK-BE-LPK (859) 652-3575 [2]
On 2016-06-01 21:24, Sam Goldstein wrote:
Many members are asking about the JC results. Can someone please post them here for distribution?
Thanks,
Sam Goldstein Libertarian National Committee Member at Large 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101 Indianapolis IN 46260 317-850-0726 [3] Phone 317-582-1773 [4] Fax _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org [5] _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org [5]
Links: ------ [1] http://www.lpky.org/ [2] tel:%28859%29%20652-3575 [3] tel:317-850-0726 [4] tel:317-582-1773 [5] http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
Ken, I believe the voting technology and means we use are the problem, not approval voting itself. I think most members would be positively riotous against the removal of approval voting, but the means by which we do it can certainly be improved. In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 5:12 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
Alicia,
I understand that you have a ridiculous amount of work to do. As long as it's on the agenda to get published, I think people will be fine.
I'd like to explore a secure mechanism to increase voting efficiency - both the voting and the tallying.
I'd also like to see the death of Approval Voting. Blech. ---
Ken C. Moellman, Jr. Libertarian National Committee Region 3 Alternate Representative Ballot Access Committee
On 2016-06-02 01:45, Alicia Mattson wrote:
Ken,
Our standard operating procedure is that alternates freely comment on our email list.
I know your requests are well intended, but please keep in mind that my post-convention to-do list is extremely long. It includes, but is not limited to:
- producing minutes for 2 LNC meetings - producing minutes for an EC meeting - generating nomination certificates for SOS offices to place our presidential ticket on the ballot in states where we already have ballot access - updating the bylaws - updating the platform - generating various data sets and articles for LPNews, media inquiries, etc. - producing minutes for the convention which conducted quite a bit of business while I was tabulating election results, so I have my records, an assistant's records, and a pile of slips of paper that were submitted that contain some of those motions, and a bunch of other ideas for motions that were never made - my email inbox is full of lots of requests that I won't get to immediately
When the convention minutes are produced, it will contain state-by-state breakdowns of each of the elections. That info will be shared, but it just cannot be at the top of my priority list at the moment.
-Alicia
On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
I have had 2 of the 4 chairs in Region 3 ask about seeing state totals and possibly even having the state ballots scanned in for Treasurer, At-Large, and Judicial Committee, since these were skipped over due to time constraints and thus there was no ability to contest any results.
I don't know if it's proper for me to speak on this list as an Alternate. I reached out to Brett but he was busy today. And since the issue came up, I thought I'd mention it, since it's topical. ---
Ken Moellman Libertarian Party of Kentucky ken.moellman@lpky.org http://www.lpky.org/ (859) OK-BE-LPK (859) 652-3575
On 2016-06-01 21:24, Sam Goldstein wrote:
Many members are asking about the JC results. Can someone please post them here for distribution?
Thanks,
Sam Goldstein Libertarian National Committee Member at Large 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101 Indianapolis IN 46260 317-850-0726 Phone 317-582-1773 Fax _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann
Everyone I've talked to about Approval Voting since the convention has been quite negative on it. You're literally the first person to defend it, Caryn. :) Somewhere between the "don't understand it" and "too easy to game it", and compounded with "ridiculous time to tabulate", Approval Voting is not a good methodology. I'd personally recommend using IRV for all non-presidential/vp votes. One round, and we can get on with it. And the committee gets filled in appropriately. LPKY does this and it works like a champ. It's an issue for the Bylaws Committee to consider, anyway. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative LPKY Judicial Committee On 2016-06-02 08:28, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
Ken, I believe the voting technology and means we use are the problem, not approval voting itself. I think most members would be positively riotous against the removal of approval voting, but the means by which we do it can certainly be improved.
In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 5:12 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
Alicia,
I understand that you have a ridiculous amount of work to do. As long as it's on the agenda to get published, I think people will be fine.
I'd like to explore a secure mechanism to increase voting efficiency - both the voting and the tallying.
I'd also like to see the death of Approval Voting. Blech. --- Ken C. Moellman, Jr. Libertarian National Committee Region 3 Alternate Representative Ballot Access Committee
On 2016-06-02 01:45, Alicia Mattson wrote:
Ken,
Our standard operating procedure is that alternates freely comment on our email list.
I know your requests are well intended, but please keep in mind that my post-convention to-do list is extremely long. It includes, but is not limited to:
* producing minutes for 2 LNC meetings * producing minutes for an EC meeting * generating nomination certificates for SOS offices to place our presidential ticket on the ballot in states where we already have ballot access * updating the bylaws * updating the platform * generating various data sets and articles for LPNews, media inquiries, etc. * producing minutes for the convention which conducted quite a bit of business while I was tabulating election results, so I have my records, an assistant's records, and a pile of slips of paper that were submitted that contain some of those motions, and a bunch of other ideas for motions that were never made * my email inbox is full of lots of requests that I won't get to immediately
When the convention minutes are produced, it will contain state-by-state breakdowns of each of the elections. That info will be shared, but it just cannot be at the top of my priority list at the moment.
-Alicia
On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
I have had 2 of the 4 chairs in Region 3 ask about seeing state totals and possibly even having the state ballots scanned in for Treasurer, At-Large, and Judicial Committee, since these were skipped over due to time constraints and thus there was no ability to contest any results.
I don't know if it's proper for me to speak on this list as an Alternate. I reached out to Brett but he was busy today. And since the issue came up, I thought I'd mention it, since it's topical. --- Ken Moellman Libertarian Party of Kentucky ken.moellman@lpky.org http://www.lpky.org/ [1] (859) OK-BE-LPK (859) 652-3575 [2]
On 2016-06-01 21:24, Sam Goldstein wrote:
Many members are asking about the JC results. Can someone please post them here for distribution?
Thanks,
Sam Goldstein Libertarian National Committee Member at Large 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101 Indianapolis IN 46260 317-850-0726 [3] Phone 317-582-1773 [4] Fax _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org [5] _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org [5]
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org [5] -- In Liberty, Caryn Ann _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org [5] Links: ------ [1] http://www.lpky.org/ [2] tel:%28859%29%20652-3575 [3] tel:317-850-0726 [4] tel:317-582-1773 [5] http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
It wouldn't be the first time I was unusual, and this could be in part because I am exposed to a lot of Frank Atwood and his advocacy of approval voting. The "don't understand it" is our fault. I think the "too easy to game it" falls under the don't understand it part and the fact that most of the delegates were voting on torn up scraps of paper that don't inspire confidence in the system. Whether it would make a difference or not is another matter, but perception of professionalism goes a long way. I really do not understand how we don't have something better than that.... but that is another conversation. The ridiculous time to tabulate is true. And needs to be improved through modernizing. I know this has been soundly rejected by delegates before, but geez louise we are dinosaurs in this. Yes, an issue for Bylaws to consider, and I don't envy them selling any of it to the delegates. But yes, I do defend approval voting and ranked choice. Both of them are monstrously difficult to do manually, and trivially easy if we were modernized. In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:11 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
Everyone I've talked to about Approval Voting since the convention has been quite negative on it. You're literally the first person to defend it, Caryn. :)
Somewhere between the "don't understand it" and "too easy to game it", and compounded with "ridiculous time to tabulate", Approval Voting is not a good methodology.
I'd personally recommend using IRV for all non-presidential/vp votes. One round, and we can get on with it. And the committee gets filled in appropriately. LPKY does this and it works like a champ.
It's an issue for the Bylaws Committee to consider, anyway. ---
Ken C. Moellman, Jr. LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative LPKY Judicial Committee
On 2016-06-02 08:28, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
Ken, I believe the voting technology and means we use are the problem, not approval voting itself. I think most members would be positively riotous against the removal of approval voting, but the means by which we do it can certainly be improved.
In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 5:12 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
Alicia,
I understand that you have a ridiculous amount of work to do. As long as it's on the agenda to get published, I think people will be fine.
I'd like to explore a secure mechanism to increase voting efficiency - both the voting and the tallying.
I'd also like to see the death of Approval Voting. Blech. ---
Ken C. Moellman, Jr. Libertarian National Committee Region 3 Alternate Representative Ballot Access Committee
On 2016-06-02 01:45, Alicia Mattson wrote:
Ken,
Our standard operating procedure is that alternates freely comment on our email list.
I know your requests are well intended, but please keep in mind that my post-convention to-do list is extremely long. It includes, but is not limited to:
- producing minutes for 2 LNC meetings - producing minutes for an EC meeting - generating nomination certificates for SOS offices to place our presidential ticket on the ballot in states where we already have ballot access - updating the bylaws - updating the platform - generating various data sets and articles for LPNews, media inquiries, etc. - producing minutes for the convention which conducted quite a bit of business while I was tabulating election results, so I have my records, an assistant's records, and a pile of slips of paper that were submitted that contain some of those motions, and a bunch of other ideas for motions that were never made - my email inbox is full of lots of requests that I won't get to immediately
When the convention minutes are produced, it will contain state-by-state breakdowns of each of the elections. That info will be shared, but it just cannot be at the top of my priority list at the moment.
-Alicia
On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
I have had 2 of the 4 chairs in Region 3 ask about seeing state totals and possibly even having the state ballots scanned in for Treasurer, At-Large, and Judicial Committee, since these were skipped over due to time constraints and thus there was no ability to contest any results.
I don't know if it's proper for me to speak on this list as an Alternate. I reached out to Brett but he was busy today. And since the issue came up, I thought I'd mention it, since it's topical. ---
Ken Moellman Libertarian Party of Kentucky ken.moellman@lpky.org http://www.lpky.org/ (859) OK-BE-LPK (859) 652-3575
On 2016-06-01 21:24, Sam Goldstein wrote:
Many members are asking about the JC results. Can someone please post them here for distribution?
Thanks,
Sam Goldstein Libertarian National Committee Member at Large 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101 Indianapolis IN 46260 317-850-0726 Phone 317-582-1773 Fax _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
I favor approval voting for at-large and JC. It is open to strategic voting - as are all methods of voting. Delegation were provided with index cards; if a state decided to use torn up scraps of paper, that is their decision. You might say an index card isn't professional either - well, it's more professional, and it just isn't practical to print up in the neighborhood of 1,000 ballots immediately after nominations. I agree that it would be far superior to use electronic voting. Joshua A. Katz Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat) On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:
It wouldn't be the first time I was unusual, and this could be in part because I am exposed to a lot of Frank Atwood and his advocacy of approval voting.
The "don't understand it" is our fault. I think the "too easy to game it" falls under the don't understand it part and the fact that most of the delegates were voting on torn up scraps of paper that don't inspire confidence in the system. Whether it would make a difference or not is another matter, but perception of professionalism goes a long way. I really do not understand how we don't have something better than that.... but that is another conversation.
The ridiculous time to tabulate is true. And needs to be improved through modernizing. I know this has been soundly rejected by delegates before, but geez louise we are dinosaurs in this.
Yes, an issue for Bylaws to consider, and I don't envy them selling any of it to the delegates.
But yes, I do defend approval voting and ranked choice. Both of them are monstrously difficult to do manually, and trivially easy if we were modernized.
In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:11 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
Everyone I've talked to about Approval Voting since the convention has been quite negative on it. You're literally the first person to defend it, Caryn. :)
Somewhere between the "don't understand it" and "too easy to game it", and compounded with "ridiculous time to tabulate", Approval Voting is not a good methodology.
I'd personally recommend using IRV for all non-presidential/vp votes. One round, and we can get on with it. And the committee gets filled in appropriately. LPKY does this and it works like a champ.
It's an issue for the Bylaws Committee to consider, anyway. ---
Ken C. Moellman, Jr. LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative LPKY Judicial Committee
On 2016-06-02 08:28, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
Ken, I believe the voting technology and means we use are the problem, not approval voting itself. I think most members would be positively riotous against the removal of approval voting, but the means by which we do it can certainly be improved.
In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 5:12 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
Alicia,
I understand that you have a ridiculous amount of work to do. As long as it's on the agenda to get published, I think people will be fine.
I'd like to explore a secure mechanism to increase voting efficiency - both the voting and the tallying.
I'd also like to see the death of Approval Voting. Blech. ---
Ken C. Moellman, Jr. Libertarian National Committee Region 3 Alternate Representative Ballot Access Committee
On 2016-06-02 01:45, Alicia Mattson wrote:
Ken,
Our standard operating procedure is that alternates freely comment on our email list.
I know your requests are well intended, but please keep in mind that my post-convention to-do list is extremely long. It includes, but is not limited to:
- producing minutes for 2 LNC meetings - producing minutes for an EC meeting - generating nomination certificates for SOS offices to place our presidential ticket on the ballot in states where we already have ballot access - updating the bylaws - updating the platform - generating various data sets and articles for LPNews, media inquiries, etc. - producing minutes for the convention which conducted quite a bit of business while I was tabulating election results, so I have my records, an assistant's records, and a pile of slips of paper that were submitted that contain some of those motions, and a bunch of other ideas for motions that were never made - my email inbox is full of lots of requests that I won't get to immediately
When the convention minutes are produced, it will contain state-by-state breakdowns of each of the elections. That info will be shared, but it just cannot be at the top of my priority list at the moment.
-Alicia
On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
I have had 2 of the 4 chairs in Region 3 ask about seeing state totals and possibly even having the state ballots scanned in for Treasurer, At-Large, and Judicial Committee, since these were skipped over due to time constraints and thus there was no ability to contest any results.
I don't know if it's proper for me to speak on this list as an Alternate. I reached out to Brett but he was busy today. And since the issue came up, I thought I'd mention it, since it's topical. ---
Ken Moellman Libertarian Party of Kentucky ken.moellman@lpky.org http://www.lpky.org/ (859) OK-BE-LPK (859) 652-3575
On 2016-06-01 21:24, Sam Goldstein wrote:
Many members are asking about the JC results. Can someone please post them here for distribution?
Thanks,
Sam Goldstein Libertarian National Committee Member at Large 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101 Indianapolis IN 46260 317-850-0726 Phone 317-582-1773 Fax _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
Joshua, having pads of paper that are title with voting etc and pre-printed are an expense but are WAY more professional. Yes things would still need to be handwritten in but having a tablet with some pre-printing on it lends gravitas and feels personal to the delegate. In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:32 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty@gmail.com> wrote:
I favor approval voting for at-large and JC. It is open to strategic voting - as are all methods of voting. Delegation were provided with index cards; if a state decided to use torn up scraps of paper, that is their decision. You might say an index card isn't professional either - well, it's more professional, and it just isn't practical to print up in the neighborhood of 1,000 ballots immediately after nominations.
I agree that it would be far superior to use electronic voting.
Joshua A. Katz Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com
wrote:
It wouldn't be the first time I was unusual, and this could be in part because I am exposed to a lot of Frank Atwood and his advocacy of approval voting.
The "don't understand it" is our fault. I think the "too easy to game it" falls under the don't understand it part and the fact that most of the delegates were voting on torn up scraps of paper that don't inspire confidence in the system. Whether it would make a difference or not is another matter, but perception of professionalism goes a long way. I really do not understand how we don't have something better than that.... but that is another conversation.
The ridiculous time to tabulate is true. And needs to be improved through modernizing. I know this has been soundly rejected by delegates before, but geez louise we are dinosaurs in this.
Yes, an issue for Bylaws to consider, and I don't envy them selling any of it to the delegates.
But yes, I do defend approval voting and ranked choice. Both of them are monstrously difficult to do manually, and trivially easy if we were modernized.
In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:11 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
Everyone I've talked to about Approval Voting since the convention has been quite negative on it. You're literally the first person to defend it, Caryn. :)
Somewhere between the "don't understand it" and "too easy to game it", and compounded with "ridiculous time to tabulate", Approval Voting is not a good methodology.
I'd personally recommend using IRV for all non-presidential/vp votes. One round, and we can get on with it. And the committee gets filled in appropriately. LPKY does this and it works like a champ.
It's an issue for the Bylaws Committee to consider, anyway. ---
Ken C. Moellman, Jr. LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative LPKY Judicial Committee
On 2016-06-02 08:28, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
Ken, I believe the voting technology and means we use are the problem, not approval voting itself. I think most members would be positively riotous against the removal of approval voting, but the means by which we do it can certainly be improved.
In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 5:12 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
Alicia,
I understand that you have a ridiculous amount of work to do. As long as it's on the agenda to get published, I think people will be fine.
I'd like to explore a secure mechanism to increase voting efficiency - both the voting and the tallying.
I'd also like to see the death of Approval Voting. Blech. ---
Ken C. Moellman, Jr. Libertarian National Committee Region 3 Alternate Representative Ballot Access Committee
On 2016-06-02 01:45, Alicia Mattson wrote:
Ken,
Our standard operating procedure is that alternates freely comment on our email list.
I know your requests are well intended, but please keep in mind that my post-convention to-do list is extremely long. It includes, but is not limited to:
- producing minutes for 2 LNC meetings - producing minutes for an EC meeting - generating nomination certificates for SOS offices to place our presidential ticket on the ballot in states where we already have ballot access - updating the bylaws - updating the platform - generating various data sets and articles for LPNews, media inquiries, etc. - producing minutes for the convention which conducted quite a bit of business while I was tabulating election results, so I have my records, an assistant's records, and a pile of slips of paper that were submitted that contain some of those motions, and a bunch of other ideas for motions that were never made - my email inbox is full of lots of requests that I won't get to immediately
When the convention minutes are produced, it will contain state-by-state breakdowns of each of the elections. That info will be shared, but it just cannot be at the top of my priority list at the moment.
-Alicia
On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
I have had 2 of the 4 chairs in Region 3 ask about seeing state totals and possibly even having the state ballots scanned in for Treasurer, At-Large, and Judicial Committee, since these were skipped over due to time constraints and thus there was no ability to contest any results.
I don't know if it's proper for me to speak on this list as an Alternate. I reached out to Brett but he was busy today. And since the issue came up, I thought I'd mention it, since it's topical. ---
Ken Moellman Libertarian Party of Kentucky ken.moellman@lpky.org http://www.lpky.org/ (859) OK-BE-LPK (859) 652-3575
On 2016-06-01 21:24, Sam Goldstein wrote:
Many members are asking about the JC results. Can someone please post them here for distribution?
Thanks,
Sam Goldstein Libertarian National Committee Member at Large 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101 Indianapolis IN 46260 317-850-0726 Phone 317-582-1773 Fax _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
I see, didn't think of that. I agree, but wouldn't have purchased them prior to this convention, since we didn't know if we'd adopt the bylaw change to require balloted voting within delegations. For the future, I think that would be good. Joshua A. Katz Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat) On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:37 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:
Joshua, having pads of paper that are title with voting etc and pre-printed are an expense but are WAY more professional. Yes things would still need to be handwritten in but having a tablet with some pre-printing on it lends gravitas and feels personal to the delegate.
In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:32 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty@gmail.com> wrote:
I favor approval voting for at-large and JC. It is open to strategic voting - as are all methods of voting. Delegation were provided with index cards; if a state decided to use torn up scraps of paper, that is their decision. You might say an index card isn't professional either - well, it's more professional, and it just isn't practical to print up in the neighborhood of 1,000 ballots immediately after nominations.
I agree that it would be far superior to use electronic voting.
Joshua A. Katz Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos < carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:
It wouldn't be the first time I was unusual, and this could be in part because I am exposed to a lot of Frank Atwood and his advocacy of approval voting.
The "don't understand it" is our fault. I think the "too easy to game it" falls under the don't understand it part and the fact that most of the delegates were voting on torn up scraps of paper that don't inspire confidence in the system. Whether it would make a difference or not is another matter, but perception of professionalism goes a long way. I really do not understand how we don't have something better than that.... but that is another conversation.
The ridiculous time to tabulate is true. And needs to be improved through modernizing. I know this has been soundly rejected by delegates before, but geez louise we are dinosaurs in this.
Yes, an issue for Bylaws to consider, and I don't envy them selling any of it to the delegates.
But yes, I do defend approval voting and ranked choice. Both of them are monstrously difficult to do manually, and trivially easy if we were modernized.
In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:11 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
Everyone I've talked to about Approval Voting since the convention has been quite negative on it. You're literally the first person to defend it, Caryn. :)
Somewhere between the "don't understand it" and "too easy to game it", and compounded with "ridiculous time to tabulate", Approval Voting is not a good methodology.
I'd personally recommend using IRV for all non-presidential/vp votes. One round, and we can get on with it. And the committee gets filled in appropriately. LPKY does this and it works like a champ.
It's an issue for the Bylaws Committee to consider, anyway. ---
Ken C. Moellman, Jr. LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative LPKY Judicial Committee
On 2016-06-02 08:28, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
Ken, I believe the voting technology and means we use are the problem, not approval voting itself. I think most members would be positively riotous against the removal of approval voting, but the means by which we do it can certainly be improved.
In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 5:12 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
Alicia,
I understand that you have a ridiculous amount of work to do. As long as it's on the agenda to get published, I think people will be fine.
I'd like to explore a secure mechanism to increase voting efficiency - both the voting and the tallying.
I'd also like to see the death of Approval Voting. Blech. ---
Ken C. Moellman, Jr. Libertarian National Committee Region 3 Alternate Representative Ballot Access Committee
On 2016-06-02 01:45, Alicia Mattson wrote:
Ken,
Our standard operating procedure is that alternates freely comment on our email list.
I know your requests are well intended, but please keep in mind that my post-convention to-do list is extremely long. It includes, but is not limited to:
- producing minutes for 2 LNC meetings - producing minutes for an EC meeting - generating nomination certificates for SOS offices to place our presidential ticket on the ballot in states where we already have ballot access - updating the bylaws - updating the platform - generating various data sets and articles for LPNews, media inquiries, etc. - producing minutes for the convention which conducted quite a bit of business while I was tabulating election results, so I have my records, an assistant's records, and a pile of slips of paper that were submitted that contain some of those motions, and a bunch of other ideas for motions that were never made - my email inbox is full of lots of requests that I won't get to immediately
When the convention minutes are produced, it will contain state-by-state breakdowns of each of the elections. That info will be shared, but it just cannot be at the top of my priority list at the moment.
-Alicia
On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
I have had 2 of the 4 chairs in Region 3 ask about seeing state totals and possibly even having the state ballots scanned in for Treasurer, At-Large, and Judicial Committee, since these were skipped over due to time constraints and thus there was no ability to contest any results.
I don't know if it's proper for me to speak on this list as an Alternate. I reached out to Brett but he was busy today. And since the issue came up, I thought I'd mention it, since it's topical. ---
Ken Moellman Libertarian Party of Kentucky ken.moellman@lpky.org http://www.lpky.org/ (859) OK-BE-LPK (859) 652-3575
On 2016-06-01 21:24, Sam Goldstein wrote:
Many members are asking about the JC results. Can someone please post them here for distribution?
Thanks,
Sam Goldstein Libertarian National Committee Member at Large 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101 Indianapolis IN 46260 317-850-0726 Phone 317-582-1773 Fax _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
Staff can get pads printed in advance next time. They are reasonably inexpensive and may come to about 10 cents per sheet. We can make them look nice and official. A project for next year (working with the Secretary). Can do different colors for each election or at least put a different title at the top. Wes Benedict, Executive Director Libertarian National Committee, Inc. 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314 (202) 333-0008 ext. 232, wes.benedict@lp.org facebook.com/libertarians @LPNational Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership On 6/2/2016 9:41 AM, Joshua Katz wrote:
I see, didn't think of that. I agree, but wouldn't have purchased them prior to this convention, since we didn't know if we'd adopt the bylaw change to require balloted voting within delegations. For the future, I think that would be good.
Joshua A. Katz Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:37 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com <mailto:carynannharlos@gmail.com>> wrote:
Joshua, having pads of paper that are title with voting etc and pre-printed are an expense but are WAY more professional. Yes things would still need to be handwritten in but having a tablet with some pre-printing on it lends gravitas and feels personal to the delegate.
In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:32 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty@gmail.com <mailto:planning4liberty@gmail.com>> wrote:
I favor approval voting for at-large and JC. It is open to strategic voting - as are all methods of voting. Delegation were provided with index cards; if a state decided to use torn up scraps of paper, that is their decision. You might say an index card isn't professional either - well, it's more professional, and it just isn't practical to print up in the neighborhood of 1,000 ballots immediately after nominations.
I agree that it would be far superior to use electronic voting.
Joshua A. Katz Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com <mailto:carynannharlos@gmail.com>> wrote:
It wouldn't be the first time I was unusual, and this could be in part because I am exposed to a lot of Frank Atwood and his advocacy of approval voting.
The "don't understand it" is our fault. I think the "too easy to game it" falls under the don't understand it part and the fact that most of the delegates were voting on torn up scraps of paper that don't inspire confidence in the system. Whether it would make a difference or not is another matter, but perception of professionalism goes a long way. I really do not understand how we don't have something better than that.... but that is another conversation.
The ridiculous time to tabulate is true. And needs to be improved through modernizing. I know this has been soundly rejected by delegates before, but geez louise we are dinosaurs in this.
Yes, an issue for Bylaws to consider, and I don't envy them selling any of it to the delegates.
But yes, I do defend approval voting and ranked choice. Both of them are monstrously difficult to do manually, and trivially easy if we were modernized.
In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:11 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org <mailto:ken.moellman@lpky.org>> wrote:
Everyone I've talked to about Approval Voting since the convention has been quite negative on it. You're literally the first person to defend it, Caryn. :)
Somewhere between the "don't understand it" and "too easy to game it", and compounded with "ridiculous time to tabulate", Approval Voting is not a good methodology.
I'd personally recommend using IRV for all non-presidential/vp votes. One round, and we can get on with it. And the committee gets filled in appropriately. LPKY does this and it works like a champ.
It's an issue for the Bylaws Committee to consider, anyway.
---
Ken C. Moellman, Jr. LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative LPKY Judicial Committee
On 2016-06-02 08:28, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
Ken, I believe the voting technology and means we use are the problem, not approval voting itself. I think most members would be positively riotous against the removal of approval voting, but the means by which we do it can certainly be improved. In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 5:12 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org <mailto:ken.moellman@lpky.org>> wrote:
Alicia,
I understand that you have a ridiculous amount of work to do. As long as it's on the agenda to get published, I think people will be fine.
I'd like to explore a secure mechanism to increase voting efficiency - both the voting and the tallying.
I'd also like to see the death of Approval Voting. Blech.
---
Ken C. Moellman, Jr. Libertarian National Committee Region 3 Alternate Representative Ballot Access Committee
On 2016-06-02 01:45, Alicia Mattson wrote:
Ken,
Our standard operating procedure is that alternates freely comment on our email list.
I know your requests are well intended, but please keep in mind that my post-convention to-do list is extremely long. It includes, but is not limited to:
* producing minutes for 2 LNC meetings * producing minutes for an EC meeting * generating nomination certificates for SOS offices to place our presidential ticket on the ballot in states where we already have ballot access * updating the bylaws * updating the platform * generating various data sets and articles for LPNews, media inquiries, etc. * producing minutes for the convention which conducted quite a bit of business while I was tabulating election results, so I have my records, an assistant's records, and a pile of slips of paper that were submitted that contain some of those motions, and a bunch of other ideas for motions that were never made * my email inbox is full of lots of requests that I won't get to immediately
When the convention minutes are produced, it will contain state-by-state breakdowns of each of the elections. That info will be shared, but it just cannot be at the top of my priority list at the moment.
-Alicia
On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org <mailto:ken.moellman@lpky.org>> wrote:
I have had 2 of the 4 chairs in Region 3 ask about seeing state totals and possibly even having the state ballots scanned in for Treasurer, At-Large, and Judicial Committee, since these were skipped over due to time constraints and thus there was no ability to contest any results.
I don't know if it's proper for me to speak on this list as an Alternate. I reached out to Brett but he was busy today. And since the issue came up, I thought I'd mention it, since it's topical.
---
Ken Moellman Libertarian Party of Kentucky ken.moellman@lpky.org <mailto:ken.moellman@lpky.org> http://www.lpky.org/ (859) OK-BE-LPK (859) 652-3575 <tel:%28859%29%20652-3575>
On 2016-06-01 21:24, Sam Goldstein wrote:
Many members are asking about the JC results. Can someone please post them here for distribution? Thanks,
Sam Goldstein Libertarian National Committee Member at Large 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101 Indianapolis IN 46260 317-850-0726 <tel:317-850-0726> Phone 317-582-1773 <tel:317-582-1773> Fax _______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org <mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org <mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org <mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org <mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org <mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org <mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org <mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
I think that would go a long way. Believe it or not the "appearance" of using scraps or even index cards was one of the biggest gripes I heard. In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) On Thursday, June 2, 2016, Wes Benedict <wes.benedict@lp.org> wrote:
Staff can get pads printed in advance next time. They are reasonably inexpensive and may come to about 10 cents per sheet. We can make them look nice and official. A project for next year (working with the Secretary). Can do different colors for each election or at least put a different title at the top.
Wes Benedict, Executive Director Libertarian National Committee, Inc. 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314 (202) 333-0008 ext. 232, wes.benedict@lp.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','wes.benedict@lp.org');>facebook.com/libertarians @LPNational Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership
On 6/2/2016 9:41 AM, Joshua Katz wrote:
I see, didn't think of that. I agree, but wouldn't have purchased them prior to this convention, since we didn't know if we'd adopt the bylaw change to require balloted voting within delegations. For the future, I think that would be good.
Joshua A. Katz Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:37 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','carynannharlos@gmail.com');>> wrote:
Joshua, having pads of paper that are title with voting etc and pre-printed are an expense but are WAY more professional. Yes things would still need to be handwritten in but having a tablet with some pre-printing on it lends gravitas and feels personal to the delegate.
In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:32 AM, Joshua Katz < <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','planning4liberty@gmail.com');> planning4liberty@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','planning4liberty@gmail.com');>> wrote:
I favor approval voting for at-large and JC. It is open to strategic voting - as are all methods of voting. Delegation were provided with index cards; if a state decided to use torn up scraps of paper, that is their decision. You might say an index card isn't professional either - well, it's more professional, and it just isn't practical to print up in the neighborhood of 1,000 ballots immediately after nominations.
I agree that it would be far superior to use electronic voting.
Joshua A. Katz Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos < carynannharlos@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','carynannharlos@gmail.com');>> wrote:
It wouldn't be the first time I was unusual, and this could be in part because I am exposed to a lot of Frank Atwood and his advocacy of approval voting.
The "don't understand it" is our fault. I think the "too easy to game it" falls under the don't understand it part and the fact that most of the delegates were voting on torn up scraps of paper that don't inspire confidence in the system. Whether it would make a difference or not is another matter, but perception of professionalism goes a long way. I really do not understand how we don't have something better than that.... but that is another conversation.
The ridiculous time to tabulate is true. And needs to be improved through modernizing. I know this has been soundly rejected by delegates before, but geez louise we are dinosaurs in this.
Yes, an issue for Bylaws to consider, and I don't envy them selling any of it to the delegates.
But yes, I do defend approval voting and ranked choice. Both of them are monstrously difficult to do manually, and trivially easy if we were modernized.
In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:11 AM, Ken Moellman < <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ken.moellman@lpky.org');> ken.moellman@lpky.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ken.moellman@lpky.org');>> wrote:
Everyone I've talked to about Approval Voting since the convention has been quite negative on it. You're literally the first person to defend it, Caryn. :)
Somewhere between the "don't understand it" and "too easy to game it", and compounded with "ridiculous time to tabulate", Approval Voting is not a good methodology.
I'd personally recommend using IRV for all non-presidential/vp votes. One round, and we can get on with it. And the committee gets filled in appropriately. LPKY does this and it works like a champ.
It's an issue for the Bylaws Committee to consider, anyway. ---
Ken C. Moellman, Jr. LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative LPKY Judicial Committee
On 2016-06-02 08:28, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
Ken, I believe the voting technology and means we use are the problem, not approval voting itself. I think most members would be positively riotous against the removal of approval voting, but the means by which we do it can certainly be improved.
In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 5:12 AM, Ken Moellman < <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ken.moellman@lpky.org');> ken.moellman@lpky.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ken.moellman@lpky.org');>> wrote:
Alicia,
I understand that you have a ridiculous amount of work to do. As long as it's on the agenda to get published, I think people will be fine.
I'd like to explore a secure mechanism to increase voting efficiency - both the voting and the tallying.
I'd also like to see the death of Approval Voting. Blech. ---
Ken C. Moellman, Jr. Libertarian National Committee Region 3 Alternate Representative Ballot Access Committee
On 2016-06-02 01:45, Alicia Mattson wrote:
Ken,
Our standard operating procedure is that alternates freely comment on our email list.
I know your requests are well intended, but please keep in mind that my post-convention to-do list is extremely long. It includes, but is not limited to:
- producing minutes for 2 LNC meetings - producing minutes for an EC meeting - generating nomination certificates for SOS offices to place our presidential ticket on the ballot in states where we already have ballot access - updating the bylaws - updating the platform - generating various data sets and articles for LPNews, media inquiries, etc. - producing minutes for the convention which conducted quite a bit of business while I was tabulating election results, so I have my records, an assistant's records, and a pile of slips of paper that were submitted that contain some of those motions, and a bunch of other ideas for motions that were never made - my email inbox is full of lots of requests that I won't get to immediately
When the convention minutes are produced, it will contain state-by-state breakdowns of each of the elections. That info will be shared, but it just cannot be at the top of my priority list at the moment.
-Alicia
On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Ken Moellman < <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ken.moellman@lpky.org');> ken.moellman@lpky.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ken.moellman@lpky.org');>> wrote:
> > > I have had 2 of the 4 chairs in Region 3 ask about seeing state > totals and possibly even having the state ballots scanned in for Treasurer, > At-Large, and Judicial Committee, since these were skipped over due to time > constraints and thus there was no ability to contest any results. > > I don't know if it's proper for me to speak on this list as an > Alternate. I reached out to Brett but he was busy today. And since the > issue came up, I thought I'd mention it, since it's topical. > --- > > Ken Moellman > Libertarian Party of Kentucky > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ken.moellman@lpky.org');> > ken.moellman@lpky.org > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ken.moellman@lpky.org');> > <http://www.lpky.org/>http://www.lpky.org/ > (859) OK-BE-LPK > (859) 652-3575 > > > > On 2016-06-01 21:24, Sam Goldstein wrote: > > Many members are asking about the JC results. Can someone please > post them here for distribution? > > Thanks, > > > Sam Goldstein > Libertarian National Committee > Member at Large > 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101 > Indianapolis IN 46260 > 317-850-0726 Phone > 317-582-1773 Fax > _______________________________________________ > Lnc-business mailing list > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business@hq.lp.org');> > Lnc-business@hq.lp.org > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business@hq.lp.org');> > <http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org> > http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Lnc-business mailing list > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business@hq.lp.org');> > Lnc-business@hq.lp.org > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business@hq.lp.org');> > <http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org> > http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business@hq.lp.org');> Lnc-business@hq.lp.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business@hq.lp.org');> <http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business@hq.lp.org');> Lnc-business@hq.lp.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business@hq.lp.org');> <http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business@hq.lp.org');> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
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-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business@hq.lp.org');> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing listLnc-business@hq.lp.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business@hq.lp.org');>http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
Texas preprinted paper ballots for all of the races and had them all labeled as such. Each ballot had the race, the round, and the delegate number on it (1-71 respectively). It allowed us to ensure everyone received a ballot, nobody could turn in multiple, and let us know who was outstanding. I voted for GJ and attached a picture of my ballot for you all. Note the numbering system. While I'm sure some are at odds with me for this citing state sovereignty and all of that, there's a huge practical benefit to this process being standardized by national - especially as Caryn and others have noted, voting integrity is the one of the most imperative tasks to any voting system. I 1000% support any kind of traceable electronic method and while I know it can be done, may just be too pie in the sky for the LP at this point. I think if national standardized ballots kind of like we had and passed them out to delegates (or the delegate captains or whatever) it would be a huge step in the right direction. K On Thursday, June 2, 2016, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:
I think that would go a long way. Believe it or not the "appearance" of using scraps or even index cards was one of the biggest gripes I heard.
In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
On Thursday, June 2, 2016, Wes Benedict <wes.benedict@lp.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','wes.benedict@lp.org');>> wrote:
Staff can get pads printed in advance next time. They are reasonably inexpensive and may come to about 10 cents per sheet. We can make them look nice and official. A project for next year (working with the Secretary). Can do different colors for each election or at least put a different title at the top.
Wes Benedict, Executive Director Libertarian National Committee, Inc. 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314 (202) 333-0008 ext. 232, wes.benedict@lp.orgfacebook.com/libertarians @LPNational Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership
On 6/2/2016 9:41 AM, Joshua Katz wrote:
I see, didn't think of that. I agree, but wouldn't have purchased them prior to this convention, since we didn't know if we'd adopt the bylaw change to require balloted voting within delegations. For the future, I think that would be good.
Joshua A. Katz Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:37 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos < carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:
Joshua, having pads of paper that are title with voting etc and pre-printed are an expense but are WAY more professional. Yes things would still need to be handwritten in but having a tablet with some pre-printing on it lends gravitas and feels personal to the delegate.
In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:32 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty@gmail.com> wrote:
I favor approval voting for at-large and JC. It is open to strategic voting - as are all methods of voting. Delegation were provided with index cards; if a state decided to use torn up scraps of paper, that is their decision. You might say an index card isn't professional either - well, it's more professional, and it just isn't practical to print up in the neighborhood of 1,000 ballots immediately after nominations.
I agree that it would be far superior to use electronic voting.
Joshua A. Katz Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos < carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:
It wouldn't be the first time I was unusual, and this could be in part because I am exposed to a lot of Frank Atwood and his advocacy of approval voting.
The "don't understand it" is our fault. I think the "too easy to game it" falls under the don't understand it part and the fact that most of the delegates were voting on torn up scraps of paper that don't inspire confidence in the system. Whether it would make a difference or not is another matter, but perception of professionalism goes a long way. I really do not understand how we don't have something better than that.... but that is another conversation.
The ridiculous time to tabulate is true. And needs to be improved through modernizing. I know this has been soundly rejected by delegates before, but geez louise we are dinosaurs in this.
Yes, an issue for Bylaws to consider, and I don't envy them selling any of it to the delegates.
But yes, I do defend approval voting and ranked choice. Both of them are monstrously difficult to do manually, and trivially easy if we were modernized.
In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:11 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
Everyone I've talked to about Approval Voting since the convention has been quite negative on it. You're literally the first person to defend it, Caryn. :)
Somewhere between the "don't understand it" and "too easy to game it", and compounded with "ridiculous time to tabulate", Approval Voting is not a good methodology.
I'd personally recommend using IRV for all non-presidential/vp votes. One round, and we can get on with it. And the committee gets filled in appropriately. LPKY does this and it works like a champ.
It's an issue for the Bylaws Committee to consider, anyway. ---
Ken C. Moellman, Jr. LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative LPKY Judicial Committee
On 2016-06-02 08:28, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
Ken, I believe the voting technology and means we use are the problem, not approval voting itself. I think most members would be positively riotous against the removal of approval voting, but the means by which we do it can certainly be improved.
In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 5:12 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
> > > Alicia, > > I understand that you have a ridiculous amount of work to do. As > long as it's on the agenda to get published, I think people will be fine. > > I'd like to explore a secure mechanism to increase voting efficiency > - both the voting and the tallying. > > I'd also like to see the death of Approval Voting. Blech. > --- > > Ken C. Moellman, Jr. > Libertarian National Committee > Region 3 Alternate Representative > Ballot Access Committee > > > > On 2016-06-02 01:45, Alicia Mattson wrote: > > Ken, > > Our standard operating procedure is that alternates freely comment > on our email list. > > I know your requests are well intended, but please keep in mind that > my post-convention to-do list is extremely long. It includes, but is not > limited to: > > - producing minutes for 2 LNC meetings > - producing minutes for an EC meeting > - generating nomination certificates for SOS offices to place > our presidential ticket on the ballot in states where we already have > ballot access > - updating the bylaws > - updating the platform > - generating various data sets and articles for LPNews, media > inquiries, etc. > - producing minutes for the convention which conducted quite a > bit of business while I was tabulating election results, so I have my > records, an assistant's records, and a pile of slips of paper that were > submitted that contain some of those motions, and a bunch of other ideas > for motions that were never made > - my email inbox is full of lots of requests that I won't get to > immediately > > When the convention minutes are produced, it will contain > state-by-state breakdowns of each of the elections. That info will be > shared, but it just cannot be at the top of my priority list at the moment. > > -Alicia > > > > On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> > wrote: > >> >> >> I have had 2 of the 4 chairs in Region 3 ask about seeing state >> totals and possibly even having the state ballots scanned in for Treasurer, >> At-Large, and Judicial Committee, since these were skipped over due to time >> constraints and thus there was no ability to contest any results. >> >> I don't know if it's proper for me to speak on this list as an >> Alternate. I reached out to Brett but he was busy today. And since the >> issue came up, I thought I'd mention it, since it's topical. >> --- >> >> Ken Moellman >> Libertarian Party of Kentucky >> ken.moellman@lpky.org >> <http://www.lpky.org/>http://www.lpky.org/ >> (859) OK-BE-LPK >> (859) 652-3575 >> >> >> >> On 2016-06-01 21:24, Sam Goldstein wrote: >> >> Many members are asking about the JC results. Can someone please >> post them here for distribution? >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> Sam Goldstein >> Libertarian National Committee >> Member at Large >> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101 >> Indianapolis IN 46260 >> 317-850-0726 Phone >> 317-582-1773 Fax >> _______________________________________________ >> Lnc-business mailing list >> Lnc-business@hq.lp.org >> <http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org> >> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Lnc-business mailing list >> Lnc-business@hq.lp.org >> <http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org> >> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Lnc-business mailing list > Lnc-business@hq.lp.org > <http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org> > http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org >
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org <http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing listLnc-business@hq.lp.orghttp://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
-- ======================================================== Kevin Ludlow 512-773-3968 http://www.kevinludlow.com
Kevin, Very nice and that is exactly what I had in mind except to have it in bound pads issued to each delegate In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) On Thursday, June 2, 2016, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow@gmail.com> wrote:
Texas preprinted paper ballots for all of the races and had them all labeled as such. Each ballot had the race, the round, and the delegate number on it (1-71 respectively). It allowed us to ensure everyone received a ballot, nobody could turn in multiple, and let us know who was outstanding.
I voted for GJ and attached a picture of my ballot for you all. Note the numbering system.
While I'm sure some are at odds with me for this citing state sovereignty and all of that, there's a huge practical benefit to this process being standardized by national - especially as Caryn and others have noted, voting integrity is the one of the most imperative tasks to any voting system.
I 1000% support any kind of traceable electronic method and while I know it can be done, may just be too pie in the sky for the LP at this point. I think if national standardized ballots kind of like we had and passed them out to delegates (or the delegate captains or whatever) it would be a huge step in the right direction.
K
On Thursday, June 2, 2016, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','carynannharlos@gmail.com');>> wrote:
I think that would go a long way. Believe it or not the "appearance" of using scraps or even index cards was one of the biggest gripes I heard.
In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
On Thursday, June 2, 2016, Wes Benedict <wes.benedict@lp.org> wrote:
Staff can get pads printed in advance next time. They are reasonably inexpensive and may come to about 10 cents per sheet. We can make them look nice and official. A project for next year (working with the Secretary). Can do different colors for each election or at least put a different title at the top.
Wes Benedict, Executive Director Libertarian National Committee, Inc. 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314 (202) 333-0008 ext. 232, wes.benedict@lp.orgfacebook.com/libertarians @LPNational Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership
On 6/2/2016 9:41 AM, Joshua Katz wrote:
I see, didn't think of that. I agree, but wouldn't have purchased them prior to this convention, since we didn't know if we'd adopt the bylaw change to require balloted voting within delegations. For the future, I think that would be good.
Joshua A. Katz Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:37 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos < carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:
Joshua, having pads of paper that are title with voting etc and pre-printed are an expense but are WAY more professional. Yes things would still need to be handwritten in but having a tablet with some pre-printing on it lends gravitas and feels personal to the delegate.
In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:32 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty@gmail.com
wrote:
I favor approval voting for at-large and JC. It is open to strategic voting - as are all methods of voting. Delegation were provided with index cards; if a state decided to use torn up scraps of paper, that is their decision. You might say an index card isn't professional either - well, it's more professional, and it just isn't practical to print up in the neighborhood of 1,000 ballots immediately after nominations.
I agree that it would be far superior to use electronic voting.
Joshua A. Katz Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos < carynannharlos@gmail.com> wrote:
It wouldn't be the first time I was unusual, and this could be in part because I am exposed to a lot of Frank Atwood and his advocacy of approval voting.
The "don't understand it" is our fault. I think the "too easy to game it" falls under the don't understand it part and the fact that most of the delegates were voting on torn up scraps of paper that don't inspire confidence in the system. Whether it would make a difference or not is another matter, but perception of professionalism goes a long way. I really do not understand how we don't have something better than that.... but that is another conversation.
The ridiculous time to tabulate is true. And needs to be improved through modernizing. I know this has been soundly rejected by delegates before, but geez louise we are dinosaurs in this.
Yes, an issue for Bylaws to consider, and I don't envy them selling any of it to the delegates.
But yes, I do defend approval voting and ranked choice. Both of them are monstrously difficult to do manually, and trivially easy if we were modernized.
In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:11 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:
> > > Everyone I've talked to about Approval Voting since the convention > has been quite negative on it. You're literally the first person to defend > it, Caryn. :) > > Somewhere between the "don't understand it" and "too easy to game > it", and compounded with "ridiculous time to tabulate", Approval Voting is > not a good methodology. > > I'd personally recommend using IRV for all non-presidential/vp > votes. One round, and we can get on with it. And the committee gets > filled in appropriately. LPKY does this and it works like a champ. > > It's an issue for the Bylaws Committee to consider, anyway. > --- > > Ken C. Moellman, Jr. > LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative > LPKY Judicial Committee > > > > On 2016-06-02 08:28, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote: > > Ken, I believe the voting technology and means we use are the > problem, not approval voting itself. I think most members would be > positively riotous against the removal of approval voting, but the means by > which we do it can certainly be improved. > > In Liberty, > Caryn Ann Harlos > Region 1 Representative > (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, > Washington) > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 5:12 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> > wrote: > >> >> >> Alicia, >> >> I understand that you have a ridiculous amount of work to do. As >> long as it's on the agenda to get published, I think people will be fine. >> >> I'd like to explore a secure mechanism to increase voting >> efficiency - both the voting and the tallying. >> >> I'd also like to see the death of Approval Voting. Blech. >> --- >> >> Ken C. Moellman, Jr. >> Libertarian National Committee >> Region 3 Alternate Representative >> Ballot Access Committee >> >> >> >> On 2016-06-02 01:45, Alicia Mattson wrote: >> >> Ken, >> >> Our standard operating procedure is that alternates freely comment >> on our email list. >> >> I know your requests are well intended, but please keep in mind >> that my post-convention to-do list is extremely long. It includes, but is >> not limited to: >> >> - producing minutes for 2 LNC meetings >> - producing minutes for an EC meeting >> - generating nomination certificates for SOS offices to place >> our presidential ticket on the ballot in states where we already have >> ballot access >> - updating the bylaws >> - updating the platform >> - generating various data sets and articles for LPNews, media >> inquiries, etc. >> - producing minutes for the convention which conducted quite a >> bit of business while I was tabulating election results, so I have my >> records, an assistant's records, and a pile of slips of paper that were >> submitted that contain some of those motions, and a bunch of other ideas >> for motions that were never made >> - my email inbox is full of lots of requests that I won't get >> to immediately >> >> When the convention minutes are produced, it will contain >> state-by-state breakdowns of each of the elections. That info will be >> shared, but it just cannot be at the top of my priority list at the moment. >> >> -Alicia >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org >> > wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> I have had 2 of the 4 chairs in Region 3 ask about seeing state >>> totals and possibly even having the state ballots scanned in for Treasurer, >>> At-Large, and Judicial Committee, since these were skipped over due to time >>> constraints and thus there was no ability to contest any results. >>> >>> I don't know if it's proper for me to speak on this list as an >>> Alternate. I reached out to Brett but he was busy today. And since the >>> issue came up, I thought I'd mention it, since it's topical. >>> --- >>> >>> Ken Moellman >>> Libertarian Party of Kentucky >>> ken.moellman@lpky.org >>> <http://www.lpky.org/>http://www.lpky.org/ >>> (859) OK-BE-LPK >>> (859) 652-3575 >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2016-06-01 21:24, Sam Goldstein wrote: >>> >>> Many members are asking about the JC results. Can someone please >>> post them here for distribution? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> >>> Sam Goldstein >>> Libertarian National Committee >>> Member at Large >>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101 >>> Indianapolis IN 46260 >>> 317-850-0726 Phone >>> 317-582-1773 Fax >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Lnc-business mailing list >>> Lnc-business@hq.lp.org >>> <http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org> >>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Lnc-business mailing list >>> Lnc-business@hq.lp.org >>> <http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org> >>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Lnc-business mailing list >> Lnc-business@hq.lp.org >> <http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org> >> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org >> > > > > -- > In Liberty, > Caryn Ann > > _______________________________________________ > Lnc-business mailing list > Lnc-business@hq.lp.org > <http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org> > http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org > >
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing list Lnc-business@hq.lp.org http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
_______________________________________________ Lnc-business mailing listLnc-business@hq.lp.orghttp://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
-- ======================================================== Kevin Ludlow 512-773-3968 http://www.kevinludlow.com
-- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Region 1 Representative (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
participants (7)
-
Alicia Mattson -
Caryn Ann Harlos -
Joshua Katz -
Ken Moellman -
Kevin Ludlow -
Sam Goldstein -
Wes Benedict