I like ranked choice voting (aka instant runoff voting) fine, and I think in general we should be seeking to use alternative voting methods as part of the "be the change we wish to see in the world" approach (i.e. don't use the kind of "winner-take-all" system that results in alternative parties like ours being marginalized in government elections). Approval voting seems like it's producing bad results for us though.

Love & Liberty,
                         ((( starchild )))
At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
                  RealReform@earthlink.net
                        (415) 625-FREE

P.S. – I encourage everyone to check your headers when posting – I'm receiving two copies of many emails because the same list is copied in the header twice.

-----Original Message-----
From: Caryn Ann Harlos
Sent: Jun 2, 2016 9:24 AM
To:
Cc: lnc-business@hq.lp.org
Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] Judicial Committee

It wouldn't be the first time I was unusual, and this could be in part because I am exposed to a lot of Frank Atwood and his advocacy of approval voting.

The "don't understand it" is our fault.  I think the "too easy to game it" falls under the don't understand it part and the fact that most of the delegates were voting on torn up scraps of paper that don't inspire confidence in the system.  Whether it would make a difference or not is another matter, but perception of professionalism goes a long way.  I really do not understand how we don't have something better than that.... but that is another conversation.

The ridiculous time to tabulate is true. And needs to be improved through modernizing.  I know this has been soundly rejected by delegates before, but geez louise we are dinosaurs in this.

Yes, an issue for Bylaws to consider, and I don't envy them selling any of it to the delegates.

But yes, I do defend approval voting and ranked choice.  Both of them are monstrously difficult to do manually, and trivially easy if we were modernized.

In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative 
(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)

On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:11 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:

 

Everyone I've talked to about Approval Voting since the convention has been quite negative on it.  You're literally the first person to defend it, Caryn. :)

Somewhere between the "don't understand it" and "too easy to game it", and compounded with "ridiculous time to tabulate", Approval Voting is not a good methodology.

I'd personally recommend using IRV for all non-presidential/vp votes.  One round, and we can get on with it.  And the committee gets filled in appropriately. LPKY does this and it works like a champ.

It's an issue for the Bylaws Committee to consider, anyway.

---

Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
LPKY Judicial Committee

 

On 2016-06-02 08:28, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:

Ken, I believe the voting technology and means we use are the problem, not approval voting itself.  I think most members would be positively riotous against the removal of approval voting, but the means by which we do it can certainly be improved.
 
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative 
(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)

On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 5:12 AM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:

 

Alicia,

I understand that you have a ridiculous amount of work to do.  As long as it's on the agenda to get published, I think people will be fine.

I'd like to explore a secure mechanism to increase voting efficiency - both the voting and the tallying. 

I'd also like to see the death of Approval Voting.  Blech.

---

Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
Libertarian National Committee
Region 3 Alternate Representative
Ballot Access Committee

 

On 2016-06-02 01:45, Alicia Mattson wrote:

Ken,

Our standard operating procedure is that alternates freely comment on our email list.

I know your requests are well intended, but please keep in mind that my post-convention to-do list is extremely long.  It includes, but is not limited to:
  • producing minutes for 2 LNC meetings
  • producing minutes for an EC meeting
  • generating nomination certificates for SOS offices to place our presidential ticket on the ballot in states where we already have ballot access
  • updating the bylaws
  • updating the platform
  • generating various data sets and articles for LPNews, media inquiries, etc.
  • producing minutes for the convention which conducted quite a bit of business while I was tabulating election results, so I have my records, an assistant's records, and a pile of slips of paper that were submitted that contain some of those motions, and a bunch of other ideas for motions that were never made
  • my email inbox is full of lots of requests that I won't get to immediately
When the convention minutes are produced, it will contain state-by-state breakdowns of each of the elections.  That info will be shared, but it just cannot be at the top of my priority list at the moment.

-Alicia

 

On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman@lpky.org> wrote:

 

I have had 2 of the 4 chairs in Region 3 ask about seeing state totals and possibly even having the state ballots scanned in for Treasurer, At-Large, and Judicial Committee, since these were skipped over due to time constraints and thus there was no ability to contest any results.

I don't know if it's proper for me to speak on this list as an Alternate. I reached out to Brett but he was busy today.  And since the issue came up, I thought I'd mention it, since it's topical.

---

Ken Moellman
Libertarian Party of Kentucky
ken.moellman@lpky.org
http://www.lpky.org/
(859) OK-BE-LPK
(859) 652-3575

 

On 2016-06-01 21:24, Sam Goldstein wrote:

Many members are asking about the JC results.  Can someone please
post them here for distribution?
 
Thanks,
 

Sam Goldstein
Libertarian National Committee
Member at Large
8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
Indianapolis IN 46260
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--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann

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--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative 
(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)